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'[EE] Source 17C44 in Australia?'
2006\09\29@165736 by Debbie

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PICers,
I find myself in need of a few 17C44 PICs. Any ideas on suppliers in Australia,
preferably Melbourne? I checked Jaycar & Rockby's websites - no joy.

Will order from o'seas if have to - Futurelec maybe?

Seems I seriously need to upgrade my old PICSTART PLUS, as it's protesting that
the 16F77A is unsupported. The Picstart Help file indicates an upgrade is no
drama - but you need a blank 17C44, which I don't have.

Thanks for advice.

Debbie

PS: Are there any gotchas I should watch out for?


               
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2006\09\29@174831 by Marcel duchamp

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Debbie wrote:
> PICers,
> I find myself in need of a few 17C44 PICs. Any ideas on suppliers in Australia,
> preferably Melbourne? I checked Jaycar & Rockby's websites - no joy.
>
> Will order from o'seas if have to - Futurelec maybe?
>
> Seems I seriously need to upgrade my old PICSTART PLUS, as it's protesting that
> the 16F77A is unsupported. The Picstart Help file indicates an upgrade is no
> drama - but you need a blank 17C44, which I don't have.
>
> Thanks for advice.
>
> Debbie
>
> PS: Are there any gotchas I should watch out for?

Check this page:
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en010020&part=DV003001

At some point, they introduced a flash chip on a board that replaces the
17c44 in the PICSTART.  It allows continual updates for new chips.  But
it requires that your PICSTART be of a certain vintage.  For older
units, it won't work.

The gotcha is that for the older units they no longer support
programming newer devices with the old 17c44 chips.  So if you buy a new
17c44 and put in the latest code (at least 5 years old now?), it won't
program newer parts.

The flash mod part is about US$30 or so...

I have one and like it.

2006\09\29@175619 by Dennis Crawley

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Debbie <spam_OUTcyberia429-piclistTakeThisOuTspamyahoo.com.au> wrote:
> PICers,
> I find myself in need of a few 17C44 PICs. Any ideas on suppliers in
> Australia, preferably Melbourne? I checked Jaycar & Rockby's
> websites - no joy.
>
> Will order from o'seas if have to - Futurelec maybe?
>
> Seems I seriously need to upgrade my old PICSTART PLUS, as it's
> protesting that the 16F77A is unsupported. The Picstart Help file
> indicates an upgrade is no drama - but you need a blank 17C44, which
> I don't have.
>
> Thanks for advice.
>
> Debbie
>
> PS: Are there any gotchas I should watch out for?

Debbie,
buy the flash module and download the last firmware version from MPLAB.

Regards,
Dennis,
Argentina



2006\09\29@181857 by Debbie

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--- Marcel duchamp <.....marcel.duchampKILLspamspam@spam@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> > PS: Are there any gotchas I should watch out for?
> Check this page:
>
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en010020&part=DV003001

> The gotcha is that for the older units they no longer support
> programming newer devices with the old 17c44 chips.  So if you buy a new
> 17c44 and put in the latest code (at least 5 years old now?), it won't
> program newer parts.

Uh Oh! :o

On that page it says --->
"Before You Begin
You can only use this upgrade with MPLAB IDE v6.40 or later, PICSTART Plus
hardware revision must be Rev 5 or later.The hardware revision of the PICSTART
Plus is the last digit(s), immediately following "-R", of the serial number on
the bottom of the plastic product enclosure port."

My numbers @ back of plastic box are --->

10-00157-R10
JIT980124038

Am I in the soup or what??
ie Can I use the 17C44?

>
> The flash mod part is about US$30 or so...
>
> I have one and like it.

u-chip Direct has them but the prices do look a little steep.

Debbie
>


               
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2006\09\29@182155 by Debbie

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--- Dennis Crawley <dennis.crawleyspamKILLspamusa.net> wrote:
> Debbie,
> buy the flash module and download the last firmware version from MPLAB.
>
> Regards,
> Dennis,
> Argentina
Thankz - just d/loaded MPLAB 7.40. It's the question of whether the 17C44 is
still supported or not that i'm pondering ...
Debbie,
Australia



               
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2006\09\29@183146 by Jinx

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> > The flash mod part is about US$30 or so...
> >
> > I have one and like it.
>
> u-chip Direct has them but the prices do look a little steep.

Debbie, I had to bite the economic bullet a while back. The
only convenient place to get 17C44 in NZ was Radiospares
and damn-near $60 each (after expenses). It works out much
cheaper in the long run to buy a PUM

10-00157-R8
JIT974820692

(we should keep that up, like ham operators ;-)) )

2006\09\29@192208 by Marcel duchamp

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Debbie wrote:
> Uh Oh! :o
>
> My numbers @ back of plastic box are --->
>
> 10-00157-R10
> JIT980124038
>
> Am I in the soup or what??
> ie Can I use the 17C44?

Looking kinda soupy!

I am sorry to say that I don't know if the 17C44 solution will work with
whatever chips you want to program.

If you are doing this on a tight budget (hobby, whatever) I guess you
will need to pay by putting in whatever amount of time it takes to
research the issue and find an acceptable solution.

If you are doing this as business and expect to have more business in
the future (pic-wise, that is), then a new Picstart Plus might be an
attractive idea.  Only you know for sure!

For me, out of all the programming solutions out there, I have decided
to use Microchip tools (Picstart, ICD2, etc) as I expect support to
continue...  you never know when a third party provider will get tired
of updating for newer chips and the one you really want to program isn't
supported.  Then you'll be in the soup for sure saying "dang! gosh!"

2006\09\29@194845 by Debbie

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--- Marcel duchamp <.....marcel.duchampKILLspamspam.....sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > Am I in the soup or what??
> > ie Can I use the 17C44?
>
> Looking kinda soupy!

:)

>
> I am sorry to say that I don't know if the 17C44 solution will work with
> whatever chips you want to program.
>
> If you are doing this on a tight budget (hobby, whatever) ......expect to
have more business in
> the future (pic-wise, that is), then a new Picstart Plus might be an
> attractive idea.  

Hobby, low budget.

>
> For me, out of all the programming solutions out there, I have decided
> to use Microchip tools (Picstart, ICD2, etc) as I expect support to
> continue...  you never know when a third party provider will get tired
> of updating for newer chips and the one you really want to program isn't
> supported.  Then you'll be in the soup for sure saying "dang! gosh!"
>

Yep, agree with you on that, Marcel. I'll stick with Microchip becuase of the
on-going support. Sofar it looks like a new 17C44 should be somewhat cheaper
than a new PS+ ... //If// the dang C44 is compatible. Definite potential for
sending yet more $$$$s down the gurgler here, methinks. :(
Debbie


               
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2006\09\29@203148 by Jinx

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> So far it looks like a new 17C44 should be somewhat cheaper
> than a new PS+

I was going to suggest you try your luck sampling a 17C44
but Microchip have them only for sale

If you're an R10 you should be OK. I'm an R8 and looked into
it before buying the PUM. No problems

www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&
dDocName=en010069&part=UK003010

Is the PUM compatible with my PICSTART Plus?

Some PICSTART Plus units with revision letters R4 or earlier have
been known to have problems operating with firmware versions 3.11
or later; however, this should not be a deterrent from purchasing a
PUM if it is needed

2006\09\30@003134 by Debbie

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--- Jinx <EraseMEjoecolquittspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTclear.net.nz> wrote:

> > So far it looks like a new 17C44 should be somewhat cheaper
> > than a new PS+
>
> I was going to suggest you try your luck sampling a 17C44
> but Microchip have them only for sale
>
> If you're an R10 you should be OK. I'm an R8 and looked into
> it before buying the PUM. No problems
>
> www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&
> dDocName=en010069&part=UK003010
>
> Is the PUM compatible with my PICSTART Plus?
>
> Some PICSTART Plus units with revision letters R4 or earlier have
> been known to have problems operating with firmware versions 3.11
> or later; however, this should not be a deterrent from purchasing a
> PUM if it is needed

Thankz Jinx. I'm thinking an R10 should be OK. On the other hand somebody
recommended a gizmo caled a TOP2005 Universal Programmer as good value.
'Bout $100 - $150 & can handle AVRs & EEPROMs apparently. Might be worth a look
first?
Debbie


               
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2006\09\30@015325 by Orin Eman

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On 9/29/06, Debbie <cyberia429-piclistspamspam_OUTyahoo.com.au> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

But if you go here:

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en010069&part=UK003010

They say:

Is the PUM compatible with my PICSTART Plus?

Some PICSTART Plus units with revision letters R4 or earlier have been
known to have problems operating with firmware versions 3.11 or later;
however, this should not be a deterrent from purchasing a PUM if it is
needed.

If a PICSTART Plus fails to work properly after installing a PUM –
such as receiving communication errors or the power light will not
turn on, it can returned to Microchip for replacement.

------------

But since your's is R10, there shouldn't be an issue.

{Quote hidden}

Yes, it's US$29.99 at DigiKey, same direct.  Best get one now while you can IMO.

Orin.

2006\09\30@081649 by olin piclist

face picon face
Debbie wrote:
>> If you are doing this on a tight budget (hobby, whatever)
>> ......expect to have more business in the future (pic-wise, that
>> is), then a new Picstart Plus might be an attractive idea.
>
> Hobby, low budget.

If a 17C44-JW is really that expensive to get one of and you can stick to
"hobby" PICs, how about a EasyProg kit instead?  For a total cost of US$83
you get a whole new programmer that can program all the popular hobby PICs,
include dsPICs.  It doesn't currently support all the various individual
PICs out there, but it does support the few sensible hobby PICs for each
footprint.  It's also a lot faster for most PICs.

How about this: If you order a fully assembled EasyProg, I'll throw in a
PIC17C44-JW?  Just make sure when you order that I can tell it's you.
http://www.embedinc.com/easyprog


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\09\30@120047 by Per Linne

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Olin Lathrop,

You are a really nice guy. I always thought so.

Last time you tried to give away a gift, it ended up
in an unpredictable mess. :-^) If I recall correctly.

Regards,
PerL


----- Original Message -----
From: "Olin Lathrop" <KILLspamolin_piclistKILLspamspamembedinc.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <RemoveMEpiclistTakeThisOuTspammit.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [EE] Source 17C44 in Australia?


> How about this: If you order a fully assembled EasyProg, I'll throw in a
> PIC17C44-JW?  Just make sure when you order that I can tell it's you.


2006\09\30@122524 by Howard Winter

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Per,

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 18:00:07 +0200, Per Linne wrote:

> Olin Lathrop,
>
> You are a really nice guy. I always thought so.
>
> Last time you tried to give away a gift, it ended up
> in an unpredictable mess. :-^) If I recall correctly.

"No good deed goes unpunished!"  :-)

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\09\30@125708 by Kevin

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On Sat, 30 Sep 2006, Howard Winter wrote:

> Per,
>
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 18:00:07 +0200, Per Linne wrote:
>
> > Olin Lathrop,
> >
> > You are a really nice guy. I always thought so.
> >
> > Last time you tried to give away a gift, it ended up
> > in an unpredictable mess. :-^) If I recall correctly.
>
> "No good deed goes unpunished!"  :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Howard Winter
> St.Albans, England

Yes, I remember that one. The guy in question seemed to want
to make it on his own without any "charity" from the list.
I think too much pride is a bad thing. A lot of us on the
list get "help" from each other every day. Isn't that why we
are on the PIC list ? Oh well, straying into OT territory,
back to work.

~Kevin

P.S. I agree that is an exceptionally nice offer from Olin.

2006\09\30@175553 by olin piclist

face picon face
Per Linne wrote:
> You are a really nice guy. I always thought so.

So you're the one!

> Last time you tried to give away a gift, it ended up
> in an unpredictable mess. :-^) If I recall correctly.

I'm not really giving stuff away, and certainly not for free.  The offer is
to buy a fully assembled EasyProg and I'll throw in the 17C44-JW for "free".
I bought two of them a long time ago for my two Picstart+, but I haven't
used those programmers in years, and probably never will again.  If for some
reason I ever need to, I'll get the PUM.  So either way you look at it, I've
got two 17C44-JW sitting around that aren't doing anything useful for me and
most likely never will.  If I can use one to sell one more EasyProg, spread
the good word about my programmers, and at the same time help someone else
out, I consider that a win-win not a giveaway.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products


'[EE] Source 17C44 in Australia?'
2006\10\01@061222 by Debbie
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--- Olin Lathrop <spamBeGoneolin_piclistspamBeGonespamembedinc.com> wrote:

> Per Linne wrote:
> > You are a really nice guy. I always thought so.
>
> > Last time you tried to give away a gift, it ended up
> > in an unpredictable mess. :-^) If I recall correctly.

:)  :)  :) :) :)

{Quote hidden}

Yep,I agree. That Olin's an //exceptionally// nice guy! :)  :)

Hmmm. The programmer looks real nice too. You need an adaptor for a 16F84
(trusty ol'standbye) and you're concreted in to PICs with it, tho?

These TOP2005 Universal Programmers look kinda interesting too. "Support EPROM,
EEPROM, MPU/MCU, static ram, serial memory, PLD... and TTL/CMOS IC testing."  -
the list is as long as your arm. Power from the USB line too. Anyone had
experience pro/con with them?

Debbie :)


               
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2006\10\01@090221 by Howard Winter

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Debbie,

Olin's Easyprog...

On Sun, 1 Oct 2006 20:12:21 +1000 (EST), Debbie wrote:

>...
> Hmmm. The programmer looks real nice too. You need an adaptor for a 16F84
> (trusty ol'standbye)

I'm not sure if this is right - on the web page it doesn't mention the '84 bit it does say that of the '684.  The '84 is the "classic" pinout for an 18-pin,
also used by things like the 16F88, whereas the 684 is the newer pinout used by the 8, 14, 20 pin chips.  Did you misread or is the '84 mentioned
elsewhere?  

> and you're concreted in to PICs with it, tho?

There are worse things!  :-)  Unless there's a good reason to switch around it's a good idea to stick with one family of chips in your early days.  There
is such a wide range of PICs available that it's unlikely you'll need anything else unless you are being *really* ambitious.

> These TOP2005 Universal Programmers look kinda interesting too. "Support EPROM,
> EEPROM, MPU/MCU, static ram, serial memory, PLD... and TTL/CMOS IC testing."  -
> the list is as long as your arm. Power from the USB line too. Anyone had
> experience pro/con with them?

I think you need to confirm how Universal it is - a long list is no good if it doesn't include what you want.  Check which ranges of PICs it will program.  
Saying it will program "MPU/MCU" can hide a multitude of omissions (I'd bet folding money it won't do DSPICs, for example).  I'd also like to know how
it programs static RAM, which is typically volatile - loses its contents when power is removed.  You obviously can't program it in a ZIF and then move
it into the circuit, and I've never seen In Circuit Programming of volatile memory!

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\10\01@095846 by olin piclist

face picon face
Debbie wrote:
> Hmmm. The programmer looks real nice too. You need an adaptor for a
> 16F84 (trusty ol'standbye) and you're concreted in to PICs with it,
> tho?

I'm not quite sure what you are asking.  The 16F84 is not currently
supported, but if it were you wouldn't need an adapter because it uses the
standard 18 pin pinout.  Supporting the 16F84 is a matter of looking up the
programming spec and adding the particulars to the PICPRG.ENV file, and
possibly adding some software and firmware depending on how different
Microchip made the programming algorithm.  The programmer does support the
16F627, 16F628, 16f648A, and 16F88 which all have the same footprint as the
obsolete 16F84, and they also do more and cost less.

As for being "concreted" to PICs, yes this is specifically a PIC programmer.
It's hard enough to keep up with all the PICs and Micrcohip's tendency to
concoct a new programming algorithm for each new chip.  Once the USBProg is
out, I intend to go back and fill in support for a lot more PICs accross all
three programmers.


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(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

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