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'[EE] Soldering smaller parts (SSOP, SOT, etc).'
2005\09\02@035339 by PicDude

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Some months ago, I was able to successfully hand-solder SOIC's and
similar-sized parts.  Since then I do this regularly, as it lets me squeeze
more into my usually-limited-space applications.  I've also soldered some
SOT-23 transistors, which though functional, don't always visually line-up
perfectly.

Today, I tried to solder a couple SSOP's and had success .... mostly.  On the
first chip, I was trying to tack one corner pin down for so long, that the
pad lifted off the board.  It wasn't really so long, but longer than I would
have the iron on the pin of a DIP package.  Also, I did have to use some
braid/wick to clean up the bridges (lots of them) all over.  When doing this
though, the chips get very hot (I couldn't keep my finger on them for more
than a second or 2).  Is it easy to damage chips this way nowadays?  I expect
these things are designed to be in ovens hot enough to melt solder and all
pins simultaneously, so would I fry these things easily by heating all pins
on one side simultaneously with some wick?

BTW, are there any tips to keeping SOT-23 transistors in place when soldering
them?  Best technique I've come up with so far is to wet one pad with some
solder, but clean it off (with wick/braid) to keep it low profile, slide the
transistor in position (I use the tip of a mechanical pencil for this), then
I point the same pencil over the top of the body, and press straight down to
keep it in place.  I carefully swap hands holding the pencil, and then
tack-down the pin.  If necessary, I can twist it a bit to improve the
alignment.  Finally I solder the remaining pins.  But still, my alignment is
not the best.  I'm sure I've seen somewhere the use of glue to hold the part,
but I would guess lining it up to glue it would be the same hassle, and the
glue would probably add problems if it got on the pads.  Any better way to do
this?

Cheers,
-Neil.




2005\09\02@042716 by Mike Harrison

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On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 02:59:00 -0500, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

For stuff like SOT23s, put a bump of solder on one pad, place the part over the footprint with
tweezers,  and flow the solder while seating it downt. Same method for tacking the initial corner of
ICs.

For 2-sided ICs, putting flux on the bottom of the pins as well as the PCB helps a lot.
If you have a wide enough bit, one method is to put solder on all the pads, put flux on the pins,
hold the part in place and reflow the whole row down onto the solder.

For braiding off excess solder, one method to minimise heat is to hold a loop of  braid over the
iron bit and then touch the braid/iron combination onto the pad.
"Soder-Wick" brand is the only braid worth using. There is s HUGE difference between good and bad
solder braid.

If reworking, ALWAYS clean off old flux and put fresh on. You can never have too much flux, as long
as it is fresh.
I like the chemtronics circuit works flux pens (cw8200) - the spray stuff is messy and too sticky.

A screwdriver with a blob of blu-tak on the end makes a good substitute for a vacuum pick-up tool.



2005\09\02@052024 by Chen Xiao Fan

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Interesting idea of using blu-tak. We use blu-tack to prevent
optic short (from LED emitter to photo diode receiver).

Is "Solder-Wick" a brand? We use Hako (or Hakko?) 936 soldering
station so we are using "Hako Wick" soldering braid. It is not
bad. We are also using Hako 850 to blow away small components.
Solder wicks are really a must-have. Flux can help as well
for small SSOP/MSOP components.

I think 0805/0603/0402 and SOIC, SSOP and SOT stuff are not
so difficult after some trying. Magnifying glass or
microscope can help sometimes. To solder MLP/QFN parts are
really difficult. We normally use the Hako 850 to try
and use the microscope to check. So far I only managed to
solder three ICs and one failed. I used flux to help
but two months the other one failed. Luckily we only need
to deal with this in very few cases.

Regards,
Xiaofan
----------------------------------------------
Xiaofan Chen
R&D Engineer, Photoelectric Sensor Development
Pepperl+Fuchs Singapore
http://www.pepperl-fuchs.com
Signals for the world of automation
--------------------------------------------

{Original Message removed}

2005\09\02@055634 by Mike Harrison

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>Is "Solder-Wick" a brand? We use Hako (or Hakko?) 936 soldering
>station so we are using "Hako Wick" soldering braid. It is not
>bad. We are also using Hako 850 to blow away small components.
>Solder wicks are really a must-have. Flux can help as well
>for small SSOP/MSOP components.

It's "Soder Wick" (i.e. spelt the way that Americans mis-pronounce "Solder"), now owned by
Chemtronics.

2005\09\02@065153 by Wouter van Ooijen
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> "Soder-Wick" brand is the only braid worth using. There is s
> HUGE difference between good and bad
> solder braid.

I agree with the 'HUGE difference'. The one I prefer for this work is
marked 'Chem-Wik', manufacturere is Chemtronics. I prefer the smallest
size.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\09\02@082341 by Mike Harrison

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On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:51:55 +0200, you wrote:

>> "Soder-Wick" brand is the only braid worth using. There is s
>> HUGE difference between good and bad
>> solder braid.
>
>I agree with the 'HUGE difference'. The one I prefer for this work is
>marked 'Chem-Wik', manufacturere is Chemtronics. I prefer the smallest
>size.
>
>Wouter van Ooijen

I find that the really small stuff fills with solder too quickly - I use size #4, which is about 3mm
wide - if I need a tiny bit I just cut it diagonally to a point.

2005\09\02@085446 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> I find that the really small stuff fills with solder too
> quickly - I use size #4, which is about 3mm
> wide - if I need a tiny bit I just cut it diagonally to a point.

Taste differ. My favourite way of soldering SMD's is to apply (slightly)
too much solder, then remove it with wick. I prefer the .030" / 1 mm
wide wick.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2005\09\02@093259 by Vic Fraenckel

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If you are a hobbiest, have you considered using the poor-man's reflow system of a toaster oven or even better the electric fry pan? I have used the fry pan method with SMD and have had good success. As a bonus the surface tension of the melting solder paste aligns the components with the pads much better than trying to do it by hand. Go to http://www.sparkfun.com and read the tutorials about both devices.

HTH

Vic
________________________________________________________

Victor Fraenckel - The Windman         victorf ATSIGN windreader DOT com
KC2GUI                                                  
     Home of the WindReader Electronic Theodolite
                              Read the WIND

"Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?"
-Count Oxenstierna (ca 1620) to the young King Gustavus Adolphus

"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
-George Orwell

"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that
all the dunces are in confederacy against him."   -Jonathan Swift

2005\09\02@094951 by alan smith

picon face
But the wife n kids complain about the 0201 parts that get left over in the eggs on Sunday morning.....I said...isnt that just pepper?

Vic Fraenckel <spam_OUTvictorfTakeThisOuTspamwindreader.com> wrote:If you are a hobbiest, have you considered using the poor-man's reflow system of a toaster oven or even better the electric fry pan? I have used the fry pan method with SMD and have had good success. As a bonus the surface tension of the melting solder paste aligns the components with the pads much better than trying to do it by hand. Go to http://www.sparkfun.com and read the tutorials about both devices.

HTH

Vic
________________________________________________________

Victor Fraenckel - The Windman
victorf ATSIGN windreader DOT com
KC2GUI

Home of the WindReader Electronic Theodolite
Read the WIND

"Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?"
-Count Oxenstierna (ca 1620) to the young King Gustavus Adolphus

"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough
men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
-George Orwell

"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that
all the dunces are in confederacy against him." -Jonathan Swift


2005\09\02@094952 by alan smith

picon face
But the wife n kids complain about the 0201 parts that get left over in the eggs on Sunday morning.....I said...isnt that just pepper?

Vic Fraenckel <.....victorfKILLspamspam@spam@windreader.com> wrote:If you are a hobbiest, have you considered using the poor-man's reflow system of a toaster oven or even better the electric fry pan? I have used the fry pan method with SMD and have had good success. As a bonus the surface tension of the melting solder paste aligns the components with the pads much better than trying to do it by hand. Go to http://www.sparkfun.com and read the tutorials about both devices.

HTH

Vic
________________________________________________________

Victor Fraenckel - The Windman
victorf ATSIGN windreader DOT com
KC2GUI

Home of the WindReader Electronic Theodolite
Read the WIND

"Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?"
-Count Oxenstierna (ca 1620) to the young King Gustavus Adolphus

"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough
men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
-George Orwell

"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that
all the dunces are in confederacy against him." -Jonathan Swift


2005\09\02@104005 by PicDude

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On Friday 02 September 2005 03:30 am, Mike Harrison scribbled:
> For stuff like SOT23s, put a bump of solder on one pad, place the part over
> the footprint with tweezers,  and flow the solder while seating it downt.
> Same method for tacking the initial corner of ICs.

Maybe it's my tweezers, but I had tried those and could not hold the part
properly.  I'm also guessing it had a lot to do with my blood-caffeine level.
IC's are not a problem -- I can slide them in place and press on it with a
finger while I tack down a corner.  If I try to hold down an SOT-23 device
with my finger, it usually tilts the opposite side up and flips it over and
ends up elsewhere on the board.


> For 2-sided ICs, putting flux on the bottom of the pins as well as the PCB
> helps a lot. If you have a wide enough bit, one method is to put solder on
> all the pads, put flux on the pins, hold the part in place and reflow the
> whole row down onto the solder.

What are you calling a "2-sided IC"?  Are you refereing to IC's with pins
under them, such as PLCC's?


> For braiding off excess solder, one method to minimise heat is to hold a
> loop of  braid over the iron bit and then touch the braid/iron combination
> onto the pad.

That sounds awesome -- I must try that.  So far I've been laying the braid on
the pins and pulling/sliding it across all the pins while I simultaneously
hold the iron on the braid and slide it together with the braid.


> "Soder-Wick" brand is the only braid worth using. There is s HUGE
> difference between good and bad solder braid.

Will look for it.  So far I've been using Techspray .055" braid.


> If reworking, ALWAYS clean off old flux and put fresh on. You can never
> have too much flux, as long as it is fresh.

Actually, I always clean off flux after soldering.


> I like the chemtronics circuit works flux pens (cw8200) - the spray stuff
> is messy and too sticky.

Yes, the pen is awesome -- I use the CW9200.


> A screwdriver with a blob of blu-tak on the end makes a good substitute for
> a vacuum pick-up tool.

Blu-tak?  Will look for it.

Thanks,
-Neil.





2005\09\02@104555 by PicDude

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On Friday 02 September 2005 04:20 am, Chen Xiao Fan scribbled:
> I think 0805/0603/0402 and SOIC, SSOP and SOT stuff are not
> so difficult after some trying. Magnifying glass or
> ...

Wow, I'd be quite happy if I can get to solder 1206 devices.  I just got a
couple boards with some of those pads, so I'll be experimenting with those
soon.


> ... Luckily we only need
> to deal with this in very few cases.

I'd like to make this a science rather than an art, so I could do this
repeatedly as well as I do DIP's.

Cheers,
-Neil.


2005\09\02@112311 by Mike Harrison

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>
>> For 2-sided ICs, putting flux on the bottom of the pins as well as the PCB
>> helps a lot. If you have a wide enough bit, one method is to put solder on
>> all the pads, put flux on the pins, hold the part in place and reflow the
>> whole row down onto the solder.
>
>What are you calling a "2-sided IC"?  Are you refereing to IC's with pins
>under them, such as PLCC's?

No - 2 rows of pins - SOIC, TSOP, SSOP as opposed to quads - QFP, PLCC etc.

2005\09\02@114443 by Peter D Wilson

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PicDude wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I have had some braid for a while that never worked very satisfactorily, but the other day I had the idea of just pushing the end into some flux before using it .. works great .. just like soder-wick.

Peter



{Quote hidden}

I have a pot of flux and use a really small artists paintbrush to coat
the stuff I am just about to solder. Usually it needs only a very thin coat

Peter


2005\09\02@140833 by Rick Thompson

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The best way I've found is to use Kester no-clean solder paste.  You must
first overlook the hefty price tag of $42 for 35 gm syringe at Digikey.
It's well worth it and that syringe will go a long way, and it keeps rather
well if stored tip down in the fridge.

For rework what I do is soak up any residual solder from the pads using
solder wick (after the old part is removed) so that the new part can lay
completely flat.  Then I put just a little dab of solder paste on the tip of
a sharp wooden toothpick.  It doesn't take much at all.  Under my desktop
magnifying glass I gently paint a little dab of the paste onto the pads.  It
takes 2 hands, one to hold the toothpick and the other to keep the other
hand steady.  Then I place the device onto the pads with a long-snooted pair
of tweasers (medical ones are the best).  Again, the second hand is
necessary for steading.  If the device gets a little cocked on the pads, I
just nudge it over with the tip of the toothpick.  After the part is set in
place, I touch the pad with the tip of my iron.  I only get the iron close
to the pin.  If I touch the pin, the device will move out of position.

For soldering an entire board, I do mostly the same thing.  Only to dispense
the solder paste, I put a little in the bottom of a 5-cc syringe with a
21-ga. hypodermic needle.  I ususally take a sharpening stone & flatten the
tip of the needle just a bit.  Then I go around & apply paste to every pad
on the board.  I then come back & lay down all the devices.  Then it all
goes into the toaster oven per other posts.

Works fantastic for me.  I routinely solder SOT-23 devices with no hassle.
I'm just starting a layout using an 18F6390 TQFP that has 64 pins at .5mm
pitch.  For sure that will be a challenge, but I have the confidence that it
will work okay.  I've gotten to where I do as much as I can in SMT and stay
away from thru-hole if possible because it takes so long to solder the board
by hand that way.  Also, using a good quality board helps tremendously.

For this method to work properly it is important I don't have a steady hand.
That means delaying a second cup of coffee until afterward, don't drink
heavily the night before, don't use any tobacco products at least 1/2 hour
before, etc.  Otherwise you'll just get really frustrated.

Rick

{Quote hidden}

> --

2005\09\05@055351 by Alan B. Pearce

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>BTW, are there any tips to keeping SOT-23 transistors in place when
soldering

1. Use a pair of tweezers that have the crossover in them so they are
normally closed tips. These hold the component without you thinking about
having to keep the things squeezed with so much pressure that the component
flips out to places where you never find it.

2. Tin all the pads and pins on the chip and clean off with braid as you
describe. To clean the component legs I like to have some fine braid with a
trace of extra liquid rosin on it, and touch the component on the braid,
then the iron on the component lead, as though trying to solder to the
braid.

Having done this there is enough solder left on the component and pad to
tack the component when you place it and touch with a soldering iron.

2005\09\05@170017 by PicDude

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On Monday 05 September 2005 04:53 am, Alan B. Pearce scribbled:
> >BTW, are there any tips to keeping SOT-23 transistors in place when
>
> soldering
>
> 1. Use a pair of tweezers that have the crossover in them so they are
> normally closed tips. These hold the component without you thinking about
> having to keep the things squeezed with so much pressure that the component
> flips out to places where you never find it.

That's so true, especially considering my left-hand dexterity is minimal.  I
must try one of these.  Do you also use tweezers with any specially-coated
tips (rubber, silicone, etc)?  Or is bare metal enough?  I'm imagining how
easy it is for the devices to slide off with bare metal, but coated tips
could also get in the way.


> 2. Tin all the pads and pins on the chip and clean off with braid as you
> describe. To clean the component legs I like to have some fine braid with a
> trace of extra liquid rosin on it, and touch the component on the braid,
> then the iron on the component lead, as though trying to solder to the
> braid.
>
> Having done this there is enough solder left on the component and pad to
> tack the component when you place it and touch with a soldering iron.

I tin the pads, but haven't tried pre-tinning the component leads.  Will try
this.

Thanks,
-Neil.


2005\09\06@042217 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> 1. Use a pair of tweezers that have the crossover
>
>That's so true, especially considering my left-hand dexterity is minimal.

<VBG>

>I must try one of these.  Do you also use tweezers with any
>specially-coated tips (rubber, silicone, etc)?  Or is bare metal
>enough?  I'm imagining how easy it is for the devices to slide
>off with bare metal, but coated tips could also get in the way.

The ones I use are bare metal. The bigger problem seems to be to get ones
which don't have a half ton of pressure. The ones I like to use came as part
of a kit of tools for model railroad loco servicing, and are about 4.5
inches long overall.

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