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'[EE] Soldering nichrome wire'
2005\12\08@085905 by Mike Hord

picon face
Doesn't work so well, does it?

Particularly the little teeny tiny stuff?
Say, 75 micron diameter?

The alternative is silver paint.  Not a
bad alternative, but solder would make
me feel better.

Mike H.

2005\12\08@091355 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Doesn't work so well, does it?
>
>Particularly the little teeny tiny stuff?
>Say, 75 micron diameter?
>
>The alternative is silver paint.  Not a
>bad alternative, but solder would make
>me feel better.

Crimp it. Use something like a D series pin as a crimp lug on it - has the
advantage that you can then solder to the other end of the pin if need be,
or "just"  put the pin into a shell to use as the connector.

2005\12\08@092338 by Mike Hord

picon face
> >Doesn't work so well, does it?
> >
> >Particularly the little teeny tiny stuff?
> >Say, 75 micron diameter?
> >
> >The alternative is silver paint.  Not a
> >bad alternative, but solder would make
> >me feel better.
>
> Crimp it. Use something like a D series pin as a crimp lug on it - has the
> advantage that you can then solder to the other end of the pin if need be,
> or "just"  put the pin into a shell to use as the connector.

Crimp causes a weak spot- the wire tends to bend at the crimp and break
off.  The reason for adding the extra length of wire is to offset the force
from the nichrome.  I may try it, though, just to see how it goes, but the
crimp method has already proved...troublesome...with with steel wire of
four times the diameter.

Mike H.

2005\12\08@093634 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Crimp causes a weak spot- the wire tends to bend at
>the crimp and break off.  The reason for adding the
>extra length of wire is to offset the force
>from the nichrome.

OK, The only time I have seen nichrome soldered was after some soldering
points had been brazed on, effectively tinning the nichrome with some
brazing, and then one could solder to the brazing.

2005\12\08@100546 by Mike Hord
picon face
On 12/8/05, Alan B. Pearce <spam_OUTA.B.PearceTakeThisOuTspamrl.ac.uk> wrote:
> >Crimp causes a weak spot- the wire tends to bend at
> >the crimp and break off.  The reason for adding the
> >extra length of wire is to offset the force
> >from the nichrome.
>
> OK, The only time I have seen nichrome soldered was after some soldering
> points had been brazed on, effectively tinning the nichrome with some
> brazing, and then one could solder to the brazing.

Maybe now is a good time for me to learn to use our microforge...

Although in the grand scheme of this little project, I think the solder/
braze/paint/crimp question may be the easiest to answer.

Mike H.

2005\12\08@111800 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
At 06:59 AM 12/8/2005, Mike Hord wrote:
>Doesn't work so well, does it?
>
>Particularly the little teeny tiny stuff?
>Say, 75 micron diameter?

Believe it or not, I've had good results with standard (relatively)
tin-lead solder with Kester 282 or 285 flux (don't remember
which).  I've got several rolls of the stuff for exactly that purpose.

Hit the Kester website and look up both of those flux numbers - one
of them will be what you are looking for.  I can send you a few feet
of solder for you to try if you want, along with the exact Kester part number.

dwayne

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2005\12\08@115740 by William Chops Westfield

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On Dec 8, 2005, at 5:59 AM, Mike Hord wrote:

> Doesn't work so well, does it?
>
> Particularly the little teeny tiny stuff?
> Say, 75 micron diameter?

Yeah; a common problem in the amateur rocketry crowd.  there are
apparently some nasty special fluxes than can help (zinc chloride?),
but a lot of effort gets expended on other solutions...

BillW

2005\12\08@131938 by Mike Hord

picon face
> Hit the Kester website and look up both of those flux numbers - one
> of them will be what you are looking for.  I can send you a few feet
> of solder for you to try if you want, along with the exact Kester part number.

Thanks, but no.  I have a fairly pressing need for this.  I just went
with the silver paint option.  We'll see how well it works- I'll be
passing mere microamps through this, so it should be okay.

Mike H.

2005\12\08@172810 by Peter

picon face


On Thu, 8 Dec 2005, Mike Hord wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Can't you electrochemically deposit something on the wire ends that can
be soldered ? Like Copper or Silver ?

Peter

2005\12\08@174118 by Mike Hord

picon face
> Can't you electrochemically deposit something on the wire ends that can
> be soldered ? Like Copper or Silver ?

Maybe.  I do have a tin-plating electrolysis kit here, somewhere.  Gets
tough, though.  For a sense of scale, before I strip the insulation off this
wire, it is 3/4 as thick as a hair from your head.  After the insulation is
gone...

Mike H.

2005\12\08@174339 by David Van Horn

picon face


Conductive epoxy?


2005\12\08@184447 by Mike Hord

picon face
> Conductive epoxy?

Basically what I ended up doing...high grade
silver paint.  Then I coat the joint with a
regular epoxy, which keeps it sturdy, and
a heat shrink over the top seals the deal!

Mike H.

2005\12\08@193124 by Mike Harrison

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face
On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:19:37 -0600, you wrote:

>> Hit the Kester website and look up both of those flux numbers - one
>> of them will be what you are looking for.  I can send you a few feet
>> of solder for you to try if you want, along with the exact Kester part number.
>
>Thanks, but no.  I have a fairly pressing need for this.  I just went
>with the silver paint option.  We'll see how well it works- I'll be
>passing mere microamps through this, so it should be okay.
>
>Mike H.

Paint doesn't have much strength -  conductive epoxy is a lot better

2005\12\08@224011 by Mike Hord

picon face
> Paint doesn't have much strength -  conductive epoxy is a lot better

Didn't have any...and the person needed it today.

Of course, it turns out that she had left out some very valuable info
making all of my frantic hard work pointless...

Mike H.

2005\12\09@013435 by Ian Stewart

flavicon
face
50 odd years ago when fixing range elements we used "Easyflow" a
silver solder, wires twisted together and hard solder applied only on
the twisted wire. Be sure to remove all the flux.

Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Chops Westfield" <.....westfwKILLspamspam.....mac.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <EraseMEpiclistspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu>
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:57 AM
Subject: Re: [EE] Soldering nichrome wire


> On Dec 8, 2005, at 5:59 AM, Mike Hord wrote:
>
>> Doesn't work so well, does it?
>>
>> Particularly the little teeny tiny stuff?
>> Say, 75 micron diameter?

2005\12\09@044422 by Joe McCauley

picon face
Mike,

What kind of insulation is this & how do you strip it?

Joe

> somewhere.  Gets tough, though.  For a sense of scale, before
> I strip the insulation off this wire, it is 3/4 as thick as a
> hair from your head.  After the insulation is gone...
>
> Mike H.

2005\12\09@095402 by Mike Hord

picon face
> What kind of insulation is this & how do you strip it?
>
> Joe

Some sort of epoxy or enamel, and I strip it by very
carefully scraping the wire with a scalpel under a
microscope.  Then, it gets fed through a 100 micron
ID, 150 micron OD silica tube, which gets fed through
a slightly larger piece of hypodermic tubing.  Did I
mention that it needs to be EXACTLY 50mm long,
no more no less?*

Additionally, the wire that I'm affixing to it is not much
thicker (~.005"), and stranded with 30 strands.
Stripping that is not too much easier- the only way I've
found to do so is to take a really sharp scissor close
partway, and draw the wire back into the crotch such
that the sharp edges dig into the insulation and tear it
off.

Some days I really wish I could just, say, have a TSSOP
package to solder...

Mike H.

*Hmmm...a hornet's nest...and a stick! ;-)  Actual tolerance
is +/- .2mm.

2005\12\09@104345 by Mchipguru

picon face
you might try thermal strippers. For the enameled stuff there is also a chemical stripper I used to use. Dip the wire end then wipe. Worked very well but may be one of those wonderful things that is so dangerous it was taken off the market. It has been years since I needed it but it would not hurt to check into it.
Larry
{Quote hidden}

> --

2005\12\09@130020 by Peter

picon face


>> Can't you electrochemically deposit something on the wire ends that can
>> be soldered ? Like Copper or Silver ?
>
> Maybe.  I do have a tin-plating electrolysis kit here, somewhere.  Gets
> tough, though.  For a sense of scale, before I strip the insulation off this
> wire, it is 3/4 as thick as a hair from your head.  After the insulation is
> gone...

Spot weld with emphasis on controlled pressure with 'mushroom' electrode ?

Peter

2005\12\09@133119 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Dec 9, 2005, at 6:54 AM, Mike Hord wrote:
> Did I mention that it needs to be EXACTLY 50mm long [+/- 0.2mm]

Is that 50mm between the near ends or the far ends of the connection?
I don't think I'd trust anything other than a crimp to not affect
the resistance of a piece of nichrome to the equivalent of .2mm; don't
you have to worry about solder and/or conductive paint wicking along
the surface and changing the effective length?

BillW

2005\12\09@141104 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 12/8/05, Mike Hord <KILLspammike.hordKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
> Doesn't work so well, does it?
>
> Particularly the little teeny tiny stuff?
> Say, 75 micron diameter?
>
> The alternative is silver paint.  Not a
> bad alternative, but solder would make
> me feel better.

Not much better than a room temperature polimerizable silver paste.
cheers,
Vasile

2005\12\10@153121 by Mike Hord

picon face
> > Did I mention that it needs to be EXACTLY 50mm long [+/- 0.2mm]
>
> Is that 50mm between the near ends or the far ends of the connection?
> I don't think I'd trust anything other than a crimp to not affect
> the resistance of a piece of nichrome to the equivalent of .2mm; don't
> you have to worry about solder and/or conductive paint wicking along
> the surface and changing the effective length?

Okay, I'll give up a little more info.  The fact that it's nichrome is
incidental, and not a necessary component in the design.  It just
happens that the only wire we have which is suitably biocompatible
and small enough is nichrome, and the time constraints of the
project preclude ordering something else.

It's a neuro electrode, meant for tickling a very specific part of a
neural circuit.  Hence the need for precision in length:  without
the ability to see where the tip of the electrode is, we can only
judge based on past experience and precision in surgical guide
implantation.  The wire is glued into a silica tube, inserted into a
piece of hypodermic tubing.  The distance from the tip of the
electrode to the end of the hypo tubing is what needs to be so
precise.

The problem is that a weak point forms at the end of the silica
tube, and the electrode tends to bend and break there.  I've
finally given over on joining a wire to it, and I'm just crimping
on an Amphenol pin, pulling a little heatshrink over it for
strength, and praying.

Mike H.

2005\12\11@001728 by Robert A LaBudde

flavicon
face
At 03:31 PM 12/10/2005, Mike wrote:
><snip>
>Okay, I'll give up a little more info.  The fact that it's nichrome is
>incidental, and not a necessary component in the design.  It just
>happens that the only wire we have which is suitably biocompatible
>and small enough is nichrome, and the time constraints of the
>project preclude ordering something else.
>
>It's a neuro electrode, meant for tickling a very specific part of a
>neural circuit.  Hence the need for precision in length:  without
><snip>

Have you considered (copper) acupunture wires?

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2005\12\11@140336 by Mike Hord

picon face
> Have you considered (copper) acupunture wires?

No, and they would probably work quite well.  Part of
the current problem is flexibility (too much) and the
fact that the wire comes off the spool with a bit of a
curve to it, which leaves the electrode curved, too.

I'll look into for future use.  Thanks for the suggestion!

Mike H.

2005\12\11@235002 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>>It's a neuro electrode, meant for tickling a very specific part of a
>>neural circuit.  Hence the need for precision in length:  without
>><snip>

> Have you considered (copper) acupunture wires?

That sounds like a no brainer :-)



       RM

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