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'[EE] Semi-Trailer Battery Power Filtering'
2005\11\14@172407 by Shawn Mulligan

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Has anyone here had experience designing battery voltage to 5V power
supplies for use in PIC microcontroller applications, within the harsh
heavy trucking industry?


Specifically, conditioning and filtering for spikes and dropouts, etc.
Can you direct me to any Application Notes? Thanks

2005\11\14@173311 by olin piclist

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Shawn Mulligan wrote:
> Has anyone here had experience designing battery voltage to 5V power
> supplies for use in PIC microcontroller applications, within the harsh
> heavy trucking industry?

Yup, we've done things for boats and trucks and other places that have nasty
spikes on 12V power lines.

As one example, take a look at the optional automotive power filtering
circuit of the QuickProto-01 (http://www.embedinc.com/products).  This is an
OK circuit that will do fine in most applications.  For extra robustness or
if higher currents were required I've used a series inductor instead of a
resistor.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2005\11\14@174253 by Shawn Mulligan

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Thank you very much!

-----Original Message-----
From: spam_OUTpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu] On Behalf
Of Olin Lathrop
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 3:33 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [EE] Semi-Trailer Battery Power Filtering

Shawn Mulligan wrote:
> Has anyone here had experience designing battery voltage to 5V power
> supplies for use in PIC microcontroller applications, within the harsh
> heavy trucking industry?

Yup, we've done things for boats and trucks and other places that have
nasty
spikes on 12V power lines.

As one example, take a look at the optional automotive power filtering
circuit of the QuickProto-01 (http://www.embedinc.com/products).  This
is an
OK circuit that will do fine in most applications.  For extra robustness
or
if higher currents were required I've used a series inductor instead of
a
resistor.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2005\11\14@195456 by Steph Smith

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being auto-electrical comps. you might try Motorola; they make filter and
protection semi's for vehicle alternators,welders etc.or do a Google for
'transient protection'
{Original Message removed}

2005\11\15@080612 by Mchipguru

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nasty environment. Spikes and long term surges caused by all sorts of things like use of air brakes, AC cycling, and other load dumps in system. Be sure to use a seperate fused line straight from the battery for your system if at all possible. I used a switching regulator front end to give me an intermediate 12 Volt buss off the trucks 24 VDC system. Then point of load regulators. We even had a battery backed system to keep the computers alive if the truck battery was removed for servicing.
Larry

>
> From: "Shawn Mulligan" <smulliganspamKILLspammagtecproducts.com>
> Date: 2005/11/14 Mon PM 05:24:05 EST
> To: <.....piclistKILLspamspam.....mit.edu>
> Subject: [EE] Semi-Trailer Battery Power Filtering
>
> Has anyone here had experience designing battery voltage to 5V power
> supplies for use in PIC microcontroller applications, within the harsh
> heavy trucking industry?
>
>  
>
> Specifically, conditioning and filtering for spikes and dropouts, etc.
> Can you direct me to any Application Notes? Thanks
>
> -

2005\11\15@092435 by Bob J

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Shawn, look at the National LM2937 regulators. From the datasheet: "Ideally
suited for automotive applications, the LM2937 will protect itself and any
load circuitry from reverse battery connections, two-battery jumps and up to
+60V/-50V load dump transients. Familiar regulator features such as short
circuit and thermal shutdown protection are also built in."

Regards,
Bob

On 11/14/05, Shawn Mulligan <EraseMEsmulliganspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmagtecproducts.com> wrote:
>
> Has anyone here had experience designing battery voltage to 5V power
> supplies for use in PIC microcontroller applications, within the harsh
> heavy trucking industry?
>
>
>
> Specifically, conditioning and filtering for spikes and dropouts, etc.
> Can you direct me to any Application Notes? Thanks
>
>

2005\11\15@093121 by Shawn Mulligan

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Thanks Larry.

------
nasty environment. Spikes and long term surges caused by all sorts of
things like use of air brakes, AC cycling, and other load dumps in
system. Be sure to use a seperate fused line straight from the battery
for your system if at all possible. I used a switching regulator front
end to give me an intermediate 12 Volt buss off the trucks 24 VDC
system. Then point of load regulators. We even had a battery backed
system to keep the computers alive if the truck battery was removed for
servicing.
Larry
------



2005\11\15@171649 by R. I. Nelson

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Shawn Mulligan wrote:

>Thanks Larry.
>
>------
>nasty environment. Spikes and long term surges caused by all sorts of
>things like use of air brakes,
>------
>
>  
>
How do you figure use of air brakes is going to cause an electrical
spike?  The only electrical I know of involved is the brake lights and I
doubt the will do much spiking.  even the compressor cycling on and off
is done with a non electrical  air switch.




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2005\11\15@173450 by Danny Sauer

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R. wrote regarding 'Re: [EE] Semi-Trailer Battery Power Filtering' on Tue, Nov 15 at 16:20:
> Shawn Mulligan wrote:
> >Thanks Larry.
> >
> >------
> >nasty environment. Spikes and long term surges caused by all sorts of
> >things like use of air brakes,
> >------
> >
> How do you figure use of air brakes is going to cause an electrical
> spike?  The only electrical I know of involved is the brake lights and I
> doubt the will do much spiking.  even the compressor cycling on and off
> is done with a non electrical  air switch.

That air compressor may be switched on by an air pressure switch, but
it's usually an electric motor.  Those lights draw a fair amount of
power too, then there's the CB, the gauges, the headlights (flash to pass,
anyone?), a starter, an air conditioner compressor, possibly a large
air conditioner on a trailer, electric fans, etc.

The electric cooling fan(s) and HVAC fan would probably be the biggest
concerns, since the engine cooling fan(s) will be kicking on and off
periodically.  The fan in my car, for example, pulls between 25 and 40
amps, depending on the operating speed.  I'm running a 100 amp
alternator and the headlights still dim when the A/C compressor comes
on, activating both cooling fans at full speed...

--Danny

2005\11\15@175515 by R. I. Nelson

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Danny Sauer wrote:

{Quote hidden}

The air compressor is driven by the diesel motor usually by direct gear
drive.  The total air brake system  is designed to work with total
electrical failure.  It is a total pneumatic system. except for the
brake lights and other warning light


{Quote hidden}

I am sure there are plenty  of other things in the system to cause
spikes and variences.

What about this thought



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2005\11\16@121642 by Steph Smith

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As well as static electricity,RF interference etc. you could have half a
dozen high current relays clicking on and off especially on a 24v
truck,lights,wipers, flashers, air con.A 60v spike is not uncommon in
motorcycle wiring loom...with a failing voltage regulator i measured 75v on
a 6 volt system (a Honda 50cc bike) anything is possible IF you dont expect
it!
{Original Message removed}

2005\11\16@123142 by Mchipguru

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Not sure why but on a transit bus in Italy every time they pressed and released the brake pedal they saw surges up to 100+ VDC on the 24VDC available at the dash. I think there were electrical solenoids involved. Some of there surges were wide which is why I do not call them spikes. We used seperate lines from the battery with inductors and polyfuses as part of the protection on the front end. There is a specification book available with the types of design parameters you need to consider. I do not remember the title but did see it when working on this project.
Larry


{Quote hidden}

2005\11\16@130406 by Shawn Mulligan

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Wide spikes could not be ignored. I'll have to analyze what testing
uncovers. Let me know if the title of the specification document comes
to mind. Thanks



{Original Message removed}

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