Searching \ for '[EE] SATA connector (legal) question' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=sata+connector+legal
Search entire site for: 'SATA connector (legal) question'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[EE] SATA connector (legal) question'
2010\08\13@123432 by Ariel Rocholl

picon face
Hi all,

For a commercial product, which has to provide proprietary 4-signal
connection between two external devices, I am tempted to use SATA connectors
and cable. They are cheap, mass produced and thus readily available.

I looked into http://www.sata-io.org/ website and couldn't find any legal
limitation to use SATA connectors for something not being actually SATA
technology. Does anyone have a suggestion on where to look at to know
whether this could raise legal problems?

TIA
-- Ariel Rochol

2010\08\13@133812 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
 On 13/08/2010 17:34, Ariel Rocholl wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> For a commercial product, which has to provide proprietary 4-signal
> connection between two external devices, I am tempted to use SATA connectors
> and cable. They are cheap, mass produced and thus readily available.
>
> I looked into http://www.sata-io.org/ website and couldn't find any legal
> limitation to use SATA connectors for something not being actually SATA
> technology. Does anyone have a suggestion on where to look at to know
> whether this could raise legal problems?
>
> TIA
Even if legal, it's maybe a poor idea. Use a general purpose connector.
Similar poor ideas would be using a USB or HDMI or DVI connector for other purposes.
Using a VGA connector for something needing 12 to 15 pins is almost acceptable, as long as you can connect Screen or Graphics card without damage (It's a general purpose connector).
Using a PS/2 mini-DIN also is reasonable as these are not just used for keyboards/Mice. But again I'd use the PS/2 allocation for +5V and OV if applicable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN
Comes in 3 pin to 10 pins versions and is very cheap.

If you do use a SATA make sure your signals can't break a MoBo or Drive or vice Versa. To an extent it depends if it's external, internal or user accessible.

2010\08\13@145100 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 18:34:32 +0200, you wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>For a commercial product, which has to provide proprietary 4-signal
>connection between two external devices, I am tempted to use SATA connectors
>and cable. They are cheap, mass produced and thus readily available.
>
>I looked into http://www.sata-io.org/ website and couldn't find any legal
>limitation to use SATA connectors for something not being actually SATA
>technology. Does anyone have a suggestion on where to look at to know
>whether this could raise legal problems?
>
>TIA
>--
>Ariel Rocholl

Why do you think there would be any legal issues?
Unless you can't buy a part without signing an agreement ( the only things that come to mind are
HDMI chips and Dolby) nobody can stop you doing whatever you want with it. It would however be sensible to assign the pins in a way that won't cause damage if plugged into a
real SATA thing & vice versa, and a "Not SATA!" label may be appropriate. . Re-purposing stuff like this can be a good way to save on custom cables etc.. - I know someone who
uses USB   connectors for custom LED lighting intallations, as moulded cables in any length & colour
are available form stock, and nobody is going to find another USB port to misconnect in a ceiling
void..

2010\08\13@160238 by Herbert Graf

picon face
On Fri, 2010-08-13 at 18:34 +0200, Ariel Rocholl wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> For a commercial product, which has to provide proprietary 4-signal
> connection between two external devices, I am tempted to use SATA connectors
> and cable. They are cheap, mass produced and thus readily available.
>
> I looked into http://www.sata-io.org/ website and couldn't find any legal
> limitation to use SATA connectors for something not being actually SATA
> technology. Does anyone have a suggestion on where to look at to know
> whether this could raise legal problems?

I don't know about legalities (I don't see how USING a SATA cable would
be "illegal", if you labelled it as a SATA connection then perhaps there
are licensing issues, but that's an uninformed opinion) but frankly I
think it's a bad idea.

Never underestimate your users. They WILL plug your device into a HD or
motherboard at some point. You WILL get complaints over the phone that
your device isn't working with the hard drive they want (even though of
course your device has NOTHING to do with connecting to a hard drive).

Lastly, SATA cables and connectors aren't really that strong, I've seen
them break, EASILY. They aren't meant for external connections (hence
the eSATA connector).

How many of these do you plan to make/sell? If it's in the millions then
perhaps the cost savings do make sense, otherwise, I wouldn't use
something like a SATA cable.

TTYL

2010\08\13@185653 by Veronica Merryfield

picon face

On 2010-08-13, at 11:50 AM, Mike Harrison wrote:
> ...and nobody is going to find another USB port to misconnect in a ceiling void..
Yet!

2010\08\14@044229 by RussellMc

face picon face
> Using a PS/2 mini-DIN also is reasonable as these are not just used for
> keyboards/Mice. But again I'd use the PS/2 allocation for +5V and OV if
> applicable.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN
> Comes in 3 pin to 10 pins versions and is very cheap.

Mini-DIN is not very robust mechanically.
OK if used careful by careful people.
But able to be destroyed by the ham fisted and/or careless.


          Russell

2010\08\14@051341 by peter green

flavicon
face
RussellMc wrote:
>> Using a PS/2 mini-DIN also is reasonable as these are not just used for
>> keyboards/Mice. But again I'd use the PS/2 allocation for +5V and OV if
>> applicable.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN
>> Comes in 3 pin to 10 pins versions and is very cheap.
>>    
>
> Mini-DIN is not very robust mechanically.
> OK if used careful by careful people.
> But able to be destroyed by the ham fisted and/or careless.
>
>   Another thing to consider with mini-din is that while you can get self-wirable versions they are bulky, a massive PITA to solder and don't feel particularlly robust.
So IMO if using mini-din in a design I would want to use a configuration I could buy cables off the shelf for (unless I was doing such bulk that I could order custom moulded cables). Full size din is better than mini din in this regard but still a pain to wire.

Moulded mini-dins OTOH have always felt reasonablly tough to me, not as tough as something like XLR but plenty good enough for consumer electronics type gear.

What kind of signals are being used here? if screened cable isn't a requirement and confusion is unlikely i'd be looking at RJ style connectors, they are quick and easy to crimp with a cheap tool and are reasonablly robust (though sometimes the tabs do break off but at least that is plug damage rather than socket damage)

2010\08\14@053157 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
 On 14/08/2010 10:13, peter green wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I wasn't recommending mini-DIN, it was just an example of multiple use.
An RJ11 is very cheap and simple. Versions with all 6 pins populated harder to find.
RJ11 4/6 and RJ45 8/8 are both used for many applications.
The SATA connectors seem flimsy to me.

2010\08\14@060605 by peter green

flavicon
face
Michael Watterson wrote:
>
> An RJ11 is very cheap and simple. Versions with all 6 pins populated
> harder to find.
Maybe a little harder than ones with only four pins but not exactly difficult to find. IIRC even maplin sell them!

>The SATA connectors seem flimsy to me.
Agreed, not really very suited to external connections

2010\08\14@062527 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
 On 14/08/2010 11:06, peter green wrote:
> Michael Watterson wrote:
>> An RJ11 is very cheap and simple. Versions with all 6 pins populated
>> harder to find.
> Maybe a little harder than ones with only four pins but not exactly
> difficult to find. IIRC even maplin sell them!
>
>   >The SATA connectors seem flimsy to me.
> Agreed, not really very suited to external connections.
They have the 6w/6p RJ11 sockets too? Not just telephone plates or wall boxes with 4 wires

2010\08\14@065811 by peter green

flavicon
face
Michael Watterson wrote:
>   On 14/08/2010 11:06, peter green wrote:
>  
>> Michael Watterson wrote:
>>    
>>> An RJ11 is very cheap and simple. Versions with all 6 pins populated
>>> harder to find.
>>>      
>> Maybe a little harder than ones with only four pins but not exactly
>> difficult to find. IIRC even maplin sell them!
>>
>>   >The SATA connectors seem flimsy to me.
>> Agreed, not really very suited to external connections.
>>    
> They have the 6w/6p RJ11 sockets too? Seems maplin don't have any sockets, only plugs, couplers and crimp tools

Still maplin are about the shitiest source of components in the UK.

Generally I don't start to think of a component as hard to find unless none of the three main prototyping parts suppliers we use (farnell, RS and rapid) have it as a stock item.
> Not just telephone plates or wall
> boxes with 4 wires?
>

2010\08\14@100302 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Sat, 14 Aug 2010 11:58:08 +0100, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Toby are good for connectors http://www.toby.co.uk

2010\08\14@151139 by arocholl

picon face
Agreed on both advises.
eSATA connector is better for external connectivity than standard SATA, but
I didn't know or experienced yet a broken SATA cable nor connector.

I will probably move then to a more robust specific connector.

Thanks

-----Mensaje original-----
De: spam_OUTpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu] En nombre de
Herbert Graf
Enviado el: viernes, 13 de agosto de 2010 22:03
Para: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Asunto: Re: [EE] SATA connector (legal) question

On Fri, 2010-08-13 at 18:34 +0200, Ariel Rocholl wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> For a commercial product, which has to provide proprietary 4-signal
> connection between two external devices, I am tempted to use SATA
> connectors and cable. They are cheap, mass produced and thus readily
available.
>
> I looked into http://www.sata-io.org/ website and couldn't find any
> legal limitation to use SATA connectors for something not being
> actually SATA technology. Does anyone have a suggestion on where to
> look at to know whether this could raise legal problems?

I don't know about legalities (I don't see how USING a SATA cable would be
"illegal", if you labelled it as a SATA connection then perhaps there are
licensing issues, but that's an uninformed opinion) but frankly I think it's
a bad idea.

Never underestimate your users. They WILL plug your device into a HD or
motherboard at some point. You WILL get complaints over the phone that your
device isn't working with the hard drive they want (even though of course
your device has NOTHING to do with connecting to a hard drive).

Lastly, SATA cables and connectors aren't really that strong, I've seen them
break, EASILY. They aren't meant for external connections (hence the eSATA
connector).

How many of these do you plan to make/sell? If it's in the millions then
perhaps the cost savings do make sense, otherwise, I wouldn't use something
like a SATA cable.

TTYL

2010\08\14@153107 by RussellMc

face picon face
If I wanted something that was relatively cheap and nearly bulletproof
I'd at least look at Cannon connectors (already mentioned by someone.)
Available in many pole and pinout configurations. Range from cheap and
OK quality through very dear and very nice.


                          Russel

2010\08\14@161343 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
 On 14/08/2010 20:30, RussellMc wrote:
> If I wanted something that was relatively cheap and nearly bulletproof
> I'd at least look at Cannon connectors (already mentioned by someone.)
> Available in many pole and pinout configurations. Range from cheap and
> OK quality through very dear and very nice.
>
>
>                             Russell
They are very good and there are varieties used for mains.

But not compact as RJ45 or sata

2010\08\16@044636 by alan.b.pearce

face picon face
> Toby are good for connectors http://www.toby.co.uk

Oh, hadn't heard of them before. Thanks for the heads up.
-- Scanned by iCritical.

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2010 , 2011 only
- Today
- New search...