Searching \ for '[EE] ROHS compliancy - PCBs' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/pcbs.htm?key=pcb
Search entire site for: 'ROHS compliancy - PCBs'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[EE] ROHS compliancy - PCBs'
2008\01\28@023955 by Dumitru Stama

picon face
Hi guys,
I was wondering if online PCB-makers are usually RoHS compliant.
I am using components which are compliant, solder without Pb,
plastic container which contains no forbidden substances but
the real question comes when i get to the PCB part.
Is it the solder mask which is usually not compatible with
ROHS constraints ?
Dumitru

2008\01\28@032019 by Peter Todd

picon face
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Jan 28, 2008 at 09:39:34AM +0200, Dumitru Stama wrote:
> Hi guys,
> I was wondering if online PCB-makers are usually RoHS compliant.
> I am using components which are compliant, solder without Pb,
> plastic container which contains no forbidden substances but
> the real question comes when i get to the PCB part.
> Is it the solder mask which is usually not compatible with
> ROHS constraints ?

No, it's the lead finish on the traces themselves. RoHS versions use
alternatives such as tin or electroplated silver or gold. Solder mask is
just an epoxy-based coating, fairly harmless.

You should check each one if it really matters, but it's becoming
increasingly common for them to be RoHS complient. Advanced Circuits is
for instance:

http://www.advancedcircuits.com/index.php?load=content&page_id=17

- --
http://petertodd.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFHnY8s3bMhDbI9xWQRAmaWAJ4kACF96uMhnrKiUYh90/MbN1vXEgCggpIS
XyUm7kmB+OVb9eutF++HaBY=
=qEzH
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

2008\01\28@042727 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Jan 27, 2008, at 11:39 PM, Dumitru Stama wrote:

> Is it the solder mask which is usually not compatible with
> ROHS constraints ?

It would be usually the tin-lead plating of the tracks
that fails to meet RoHS.  I dunno whether anyone pays
attention to the type of paint used for ... silkscreen,
soldermask, etc....

BillW

2008\01\28@120628 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
There are several components in a PCB that could be RoHS
non-compliant.  You can't really focus on one thing, say plating, and
then assume that if the PCB has the correct plating then it's RoHS.

Most manufacturers that I've dealt with can produce RoHS compliant
PCBs, but you need to specify RoHS compliance when you order just as
with any other component.

-Adam

On 1/28/08, Dumitru Stama <spam_OUTspanacTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:
> Hi guys,
> I was wondering if online PCB-makers are usually RoHS compliant.
> I am using components which are compliant, solder without Pb,
> plastic container which contains no forbidden substances but
> the real question comes when i get to the PCB part.
> Is it the solder mask which is usually not compatible with
> ROHS constraints ?
> Dumitru
> -

2008\01\28@152035 by Bob Axtell
face picon face
M. Adam Davis wrote:
> There are several components in a PCB that could be RoHS
> non-compliant.  You can't really focus on one thing, say plating, and
> then assume that if the PCB has the correct plating then it's RoHS.
>
> Most manufacturers that I've dealt with can produce RoHS compliant
> PCBs, but you need to specify RoHS compliance when you order just as
> with any other component.
>
> -Adam
>
>  
After some rather worrisome reports from NASA, we have decided  as a
company to NOT
use lead-free solder and fluxes on my clients' products. We haven't
regretted it, either.

--Bob

2008\01\28@162941 by Apptech

face
flavicon
face
> After some rather worrisome reports from NASA, we have
> decided  as a
> company to NOT
> use lead-free solder and fluxes on my clients' products.
> We haven't
> regretted it, either.

Non -ROHS compliant is not an option is some cases - such as
when selling in Europe.

At the risk of over generalising I'll suggest that ROHS is
largely not a vast issue for devices with "normal"
clearances dimensions and sizes. Issues such as
solderability and inspection / testing need to be relearned
at any scale of construction. But it's when you get down to
sub sub mm pad clearances and say 0402 type component sizes
that things start to matter.

Also, products with much longer than usual design lifetimes
are liable to be at risk at almost any construction
dimensions.

Tin whisker growth can become a crippling issue in such
cases.



       Russell

2008\01\28@171036 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Apptech wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Our case is that we design safety equipment used by power companies,
mostly US and
Canada. Our equipment really, really MUST be able to operate properly
ALL the
time. Tin whiskers are just something else to worry about. Our equipment
is used to
shut down and/or service overloaded breakers (8,000-10,000 AMPS at
moderate voltages).

A "hazmat" suit is not normally required to be worn when using our stuff.

--Bob A

2008\01\28@180258 by Apptech

face
flavicon
face
> ... Tin whiskers are just something else to worry about.

> Our equipment  is used to shut down and/or service
> overloaded breakers (8,000-10,000 AMPS at
> moderate voltages).

It would have to be a pretty massive tin whisker to bother
you then.



:-)


       R

2008\01\28@193748 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
At 04:02 PM 1/28/2008, Apptech wrote:

> > Our equipment  is used to shut down and/or service
> > overloaded breakers (8,000-10,000 AMPS at
> > moderate voltages).
>
>It would have to be a pretty massive tin whisker to bother
>you then.

Not even close.

Yeah, I saw the smiley.

But I was part of the team that diagnosed a major reliability problem
at a coal-fired power generating station and it was I who discovered
the root cause: tin whisker growth on a wire-wrap backplane
controlling one of the three generators.

The company wound up replacing the entire voltage regulator and power
stabilizer systems on TWO separate 400MW generators - the 2nd unit
had begun exhibiting the same problems as the first.

They are actually running these systems over-spec - somewhere near
450MW each.  That's 900MW of generating capacity that was at risk
because of these tiny tin whiskers.

To give you an idea of how sensitive the problem had become: rapping
the side of the rack holding those card cages was almost enough to
cause the plant to trip off-line - the disturbances were that severe.

Some of our customers are insisting that we NOT use lead-free
technology in equipment manufactured for them until it (lead-free)
has been proven reliable in the long term.  Mostly utility companies and such.

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid   <.....dwaynerKILLspamspam@spam@planet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2008\01\28@194609 by Martin Klingensmith

face
flavicon
face
Dwayne Reid wrote:

> But I was part of the team that diagnosed a major reliability problem
> at a coal-fired power generating station and it was I who discovered
> the root cause: tin whisker growth on a wire-wrap backplane
> controlling one of the three generators.
>

What made wire-wrapping necessary on something required to be so highly
reliable? Yes, I know wirewrapping can be reliable but it seems as
though through-hole PCBs are about the most reliable construction method.
-
Martin

2008\01\28@211302 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Jan 28, 2008, at 4:45 PM, Martin Klingensmith wrote:

> What made wire-wrapping necessary on something required to be so  
> highly
> reliable? Yes, I know wirewrapping can be reliable but it seems as
> though through-hole PCBs are about the most reliable construction  
> method.

Wirewrap used to be really popular for backplanes, back before buses  
became standardized and popular.  We had a couple people who would  
spend time debugging DecSystem-20s (late 1970s era computer) by  
figuring out which wire was wrapped too tightly around a nearby pin,  
eventually causing the insulation to "creep" and short the signal.  
(This in the late 1980s, well beyond 'expected lifetime' of such a  
computer.)

BillW

2008\01\28@215200 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
At 05:45 PM 1/28/2008, Martin Klingensmith wrote:

>What made wire-wrapping necessary on something required to be so highly
>reliable? Yes, I know wirewrapping can be reliable but it seems as
>though through-hole PCBs are about the most reliable construction method.

The PCBs were as you described.  It was the backplane itself that was
wire-wrapped.  Sort of, that is.

All of the edge connectors had long wire-wrap pins for the connections.

The power rails were busses with formed pockets that were pushed onto
the pins.  The push-fit was obviously deemed not adequately reliable
because they had been soldered in place during manufacture.

Most (all?) of the leads leaving the backplane used a funky spring
clip that held the wire tightly against the pin.  I *think* it was
the AMP Termiclip family.

I'm not sure if *any* connections were actually wire-wrapped - I
don't remember.  Its just that the edge connectors used wire-wrap
pins.  It was those pins that were sprouting whiskers.

Yeah - those edge-connector pins were tin-plated instead of
gold-plated.  Note: the contacts that mated with the PCBs were
gold-plated.  It was just the wire-wrap pins on the backsides of the
edge connectors that weren't.

Quite frankly, that was the only thing that detracted from this
obviously high-quality piece of equipment.  Seriously high quality:
mil-spec everything: from the pots to the op-amps to the solid slug
(wet) tantalum caps.  Not a single conventional electrolytic cap to
be found.  Film caps everywhere.

They had sent me a complete set of spare PCBs to examine and repair
if necessary.  I built simple test jigs that let me test the
functionality - everything tested good.  Trim pots were all OK (a
real surprise!) - not noisy at all.  All of the active components
tested OK.  Thus the trip out to the plant.

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid   <dwaynerspamKILLspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2008\01\29@041443 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> After some rather worrisome reports from NASA, we have
>> decided  as a
>> company to NOT
>> use lead-free solder and fluxes on my clients' products.
>> We haven't
>> regretted it, either.
>
>Non -ROHS compliant is not an option is some cases - such
>as when selling in Europe.

Even in Europe, space instrumentation has an exemption from RoHS for
soldering ...

>Tin whisker growth can become a crippling issue in such cases.

And you do not need to be in a vacuum either. The vacuum possibly
accelerates the whisker growth, but is not essential.

2008\01\29@042817 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>figuring out which wire was wrapped too tightly around a nearby
>pin, eventually causing the insulation to "creep" and short the
>signal. (This in the late 1980s, well beyond 'expected lifetime'
>of such a computer.)

So, built in obsolescence , even then ... ;)

2008\01\30@065043 by Dumitru Stama

picon face
Yes but by being in European Union i have to comply with RoHS if i want
to sell some product.

On Jan 29, 2008 11:27 AM, Alan B. Pearce <.....A.B.PearceKILLspamspam.....rl.ac.uk> wrote:
> >figuring out which wire was wrapped too tightly around a nearby
> >pin, eventually causing the insulation to "creep" and short the
> >signal. (This in the late 1980s, well beyond 'expected lifetime'
> >of such a computer.)
>
> So, built in obsolescence , even then ... ;)
>
> -

2008\01\30@080135 by Apptech

face
flavicon
face
> Yes but by being in European Union i have to comply with
> RoHS if i want
> to sell some product.

Yep.
They don't care if it works as long as it's green.

People like Swatch have, I'm told, obtained full exemption
because of the problems.

Memory says that 0.64mm pitch is the point below which
exemptions may be granted. Memory may be wrong.



       Russell

2008\01\31@042203 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


> -----Original Message-----
> From: EraseMEpiclist-bouncesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu [piclist-bouncesspamspam_OUTmit.edu] On
Behalf
{Quote hidden}

There are also exemptions for high reliability equipment (such as
telecoms) because the long term reliability of lead free solder etc. is
not yet fully understood.

Mike

=======================================================================
This e-mail is intended for the person it is addressed to only. The
information contained in it may be confidential and/or protected by
law. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you must
not make any use of this information, or copy or show it to any
person. Please contact us immediately to tell us that you have
received this e-mail, and return the original to us. Any use,
forwarding, printing or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.
No part of this message can be considered a request for goods or
services.
=======================================================================

2008\01\31@061656 by Apptech

face
flavicon
face
> ... the long term reliability of lead free solder etc. is
> not yet fully understood.

Maybe not "fully".
But quite well enough to know that for reliability you don't
want it if you can avoid it.


       Russell



2008\01\31@075547 by Jake Anderson

flavicon
face
Apptech wrote:
>> ... the long term reliability of lead free solder etc. is
>> not yet fully understood.
>>    
>
> Maybe not "fully".
> But quite well enough to know that for reliability you don't
> want it if you can avoid it.
>
>
>         Russell
>
>
>
>  
I wonder if its possible to use silver solder for electronics work of
this kind. Or for high-rel stuff just use solid gold.
Fairly low melting point and your guaranteed not to put too much of the
stuff on. The scroungers would love it too ;->


More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2008 , 2009 only
- Today
- New search...