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'[EE] Propeller eval board'
2011\06\08@133347 by John Gardner

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Tag added - Mea Culpa...

http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/PropellerDevelopmentBoards/tabid/514/CategoryID/73/List/0/SortField/0/Level/a/ProductID/748/Default.asp

2011\06\08@133711 by V G

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Looks really cool!

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:33 PM, John Gardner <spam_OUTgoflo3TakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:

> Tag added - Mea Culpa...
>
>
> www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/PropellerDevelopmentBoards/tabid/514/CategoryID/73/List/0/SortField/0/Level/a/ProductID/748/Default.aspx

2011\06\08@135016 by Bob Blick

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Propellers are neat. Definitely require a different mindset to program
them efficiently. Some people think of them as if they were multiple
processors with no interrupts but to me it's more like several timer
interrupts running at the same crazy fast interval.

It's nice they have this stripped-down kit at such an attractive price.

Cheers,

Bob


On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 10:33 -0700, "John Gardner" <.....goflo3KILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Tag added - Mea Culpa...
>
> http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/PropellerDevelopmentBoards/tabid/514/CategoryID/73/List/0/SortField/0/Level/a/ProductID/748/Default.aspx

-- http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class

2011\06\08@141945 by Peter Johansson

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On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Bob Blick <bobblickspamKILLspamftml.net> wrote:

> Propellers are neat. Definitely require a different mindset to program
> them efficiently. Some people think of them as if they were multiple
> processors with no interrupts but to me it's more like several timer
> interrupts running at the same crazy fast interval.
>
> It's nice they have this stripped-down kit at such an attractive price.

>From what I've read, it seems like the propellor can be programmed
with nothing more than a serial port, and with DIP availability, it
seems as if you can dive in with nothing more than a $7 chip and a
breadboard.

-p

2011\06\08@143744 by Bob Blick

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You also need an EEPROM for it to load your program. The propeller is
like an FPGA in that respect, it runs from RAM but needs to load it at
powerup time.

Bob

On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 14:19 -0400, "Peter Johansson"  wrote:

>
>From what I've read, it seems like the propellor can be programmed
> with nothing more than a serial port, and with DIP availability, it
> seems as if you can dive in with nothing more than a $7 chip and a
> breadboard.

-- http://www.fastmail.fm - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an
                         unladen european swallow

2011\06\08@144704 by RC

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FPGA or MICROPROCESSOR? But, I think that everyone understood... ;)

Cheers,

"If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you
and I will still each have one apple.
But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then
each of us will have two ideas."
(George Bernard Shaw)

"The only thing necessary to the triumph of evil, is that good men do
nothing."
(Edmund Burke)



On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 15:37, Bob Blick <.....bobblickKILLspamspam.....ftml.net> wrote:

> You also need an EEPROM for it to load your program. The propeller is
> like an FPGA in that respect, it runs from RAM but needs to load it at
> powerup time.
>
> Bo

2011\06\08@145247 by John Gardner

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....FPGA or MICROPROCESSOR?

How about "transputer"...  :)

Jack

On 6/8/11, RC <EraseMErcspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTpiclistbr.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2011\06\08@150629 by Dwayne Reid

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tag added

At 11:13 AM 6/8/2011, John Gardner wrote:
>$20 sounds like a deal to me...
>
>http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/PropellerDevelopmentBoards/tabid/514/CategoryID/73/List/0/SortField/0/Level/a/ProductID/748/Default.aspx

My two boards arrived a couple of days ago and I have to say that I am impressed with them.

They include a FTDI232RL for both programming the Propeller as well for your own use.  All of the port pins are brought out to a pair of headers - one is a female dual-row socket permanently soldered to the board, the other is an empty set of holes that matches the soldered-in header.

The LEDs are all buffered - they will have exactly zero effect on any external circuitry that you might attach to those port pins.

The touch-pads are simple pads that have been isolated with 100k resistors.  Again - minimal or no effect on any external use of those port pins.

The Propeller software is cool: you can choose to either run your current program right from the RAM in the Propeller (can you say: Darned Fast!) or write it to the on-board 64K flash eeprom (which does take some seconds).  Note that the Propeller can use only half of that flash - what the Propeller doesn't need is available for your use (minimum 32K).

The Parallax team might have gotten a little ahead of themselves by announcing this as early as they did - I had to go searching for the schematics and layout files.  There was also no demo software available - the first thing that I did was to write a simple SPIN program that lit each LED above the touch switches when its touch pad was touched.

I did see yesterday, though, that demo files were now available.

The SPIN language seems fairly simple to use but appears to have substantial capability.  You also have the option of writing in assembler.

I can tell you that I find SPIN code listings to be very easy to read.  I wish that I could say that about "C" - my brain just doesn't 'get' "C".

All in all - I think that its a very worthwhile board to play with.  My first project is going to be something that I mentioned on the list a while back - a bi-directional RS422 merge box for several serial data streams.  The 8 cores on the Propeller make this a fairly trivial project.

dwayne

-- Dwayne Reid   <@spam@dwaynerKILLspamspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2011\06\08@150659 by Dwayne Reid

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tag added

Further to this: Parallax has spun off a separate division called Parallax Semiconductor <http://www.parallaxsemiconductor.com> who's primary target audience is professional users.  Its nice to see them taking this step - it raises the Propeller from being a hobbyist-only product to something that Professionals might use.

For What Its Worth, the head of one of the companies that I compete with (and work with, on occasion) has been using the Propeller for several years now.  His primary market is SCADA equipment and he says that he uses a LOT of Propeller chips (somewhere between thousands and tens of thousands of chips per year).

dwayne

At 11:13 AM 6/8/2011, John Gardner wrote:
>$20 sounds like a deal to me...
>
>http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/PropellerDevelopmentBoards/tabid/514/CategoryID/73/List/0/SortField/0/Level/a/ProductID/748/Default.aspx

My two boards arrived a couple of days ago and I have to say that I am impressed with them.

They include a FTDI232RL for both programming the Propeller as well for your own use.  All of the port pins are brought out to a pair of headers - one is a female dual-row socket permanently soldered to the board, the other is an empty set of holes that matches the soldered-in header.

The LEDs are all buffered - they will have exactly zero effect on any external circuitry that you might attach to those port pins.

The touch-pads are simple pads that have been isolated with 100k resistors.  Again - minimal or no effect on any external use of those port pins.

The Propeller software is cool: you can choose to either run your current program right from the RAM in the Propeller (can you say: Darned Fast!) or write it to the on-board 64K flash eeprom (which does take some seconds).  Note that the Propeller can use only half of that flash - what the Propeller doesn't need is available for your use (minimum 32K).

The Parallax team might have gotten a little ahead of themselves by announcing this as early as they did - I had to go searching for the schematics and layout files.  There was also no demo software available - the first thing that I did was to write a simple SPIN program that lit each LED above the touch switches when its touch pad was touched.

I did see yesterday, though, that demo files were now available.

The SPIN language seems fairly simple to use but appears to have substantial capability.  You also have the option of writing in assembler.

I can tell you that I find SPIN code listings to be very easy to read.  I wish that I could say that about "C" - my brain just doesn't 'get' "C".

All in all - I think that its a very worthwhile board to play with.  My first project is going to be something that I mentioned on the list a while back - a bi-directional RS422 merge box for several serial data streams.  The 8 cores on the Propeller make this a fairly trivial project.

dwayne

-- Dwayne Reid   <KILLspamdwaynerKILLspamspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2011\06\08@151647 by Peter Johansson

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On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Bob Blick <RemoveMEbobblickTakeThisOuTspamftml.net> wrote:

> You also need an EEPROM for it to load your program. The propeller is
> like an FPGA in that respect, it runs from RAM but needs to load it at
> powerup time.

Aah.  Any chance you know of an app-note/web page that documents a
minimal breadboard circuit?

-p

2011\06\08@151705 by Bob Blick

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On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 15:46 -0300, "RC" wrote:
> FPGA or MICROPROCESSOR? But, I think that everyone understood... ;)

The propeller is very FPGA-like.

Cheers,

Bob

-- http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different...

2011\06\08@153034 by RC

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face
Really? Could you share some references, please? I'm very curious now... ;)

Best regards,

"If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you
and I will still each have one apple.
But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then
each of us will have two ideas."
(George Bernard Shaw)

"The only thing necessary to the triumph of evil, is that good men do
nothing."
(Edmund Burke)



On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 16:17, Bob Blick <spamBeGonebobblickspamBeGonespamftml.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 15:46 -0300, "RC" wrote:
> > FPGA or MICROPROCESSOR? But, I think that everyone understood... ;)
>
> The propeller is very FPGA-like.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bob
>

2011\06\08@155642 by Bob Blick

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On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 16:29 -0300, "RC" wrote:
> Really? Could you share some references, please? I'm very curious now...

When I read the first released description of it several years ago it
struck me that way, and when I bumped into Chip Gracey later and asked
him about it, I remember him telling me that the development of it
sprung from FPGAs and SX microcontrollers. Since the speed he was
running it at couldn't support running directly from internal eeprom or
flash, plus the added expense, and needing durability of many
reprogramming cycles, it ended up being even more like the FPGAs it was
initially breadboarded from. Yes, it's a microprocessor, but its boot
process looks a lot like an FPGA.

Bob



-- http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
                         love email again

2011\06\08@160500 by RC

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face
Very interesting... Thank you, BOB... ;)

"If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you
and I will still each have one apple.
But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then
each of us will have two ideas."
(George Bernard Shaw)

"The only thing necessary to the triumph of evil, is that good men do
nothing."
(Edmund Burke)



On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 16:56, Bob Blick <TakeThisOuTbobblickEraseMEspamspam_OUTftml.net> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> Bo

2011\06\08@175020 by Michael Watterson

face picon face
On 08/06/2011 19:37, Bob Blick wrote:
> You also need an EEPROM for it to load your program. The propeller is
> like an FPGA in that respect, it runs from RAM but needs to load it at
> powerup time.

You mean it's like an ordinary processor and not like PIC 18F / 16F etc.. Back in the olden days before FPGAs existed we had EPROMs Or Occasionally battery backed static RAM/

I don't believe Intel has made an x86 yet either with on board flash. They all run from RAM :-)

2011\06\08@175208 by Michael Watterson

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On 08/06/2011 20:17, Bob Blick wrote:
> The propeller is very FPGA-like.

I have an Spartan FPGA. Not much like it at all. Does remind me more of Transputer and Occam

FPGA's don't run programs.

2011\06\08@181357 by Bob Blick

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On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 22:49 +0100, "Michael Watterson" wrote:
> > You also need an EEPROM for it to load your program. The propeller is
> > like an FPGA in that respect, it runs from RAM but needs to load it at
> > powerup time.
>
> You mean it's like an ordinary processor and not like PIC 18F / 16F
> etc.. Back in the olden days before FPGAs existed we had EPROMs Or
> Occasionally battery backed static RAM/
>
> I don't believe Intel has made an x86 yet either with on board flash.
> They all run from RAM :-)

Back when the propeller came out, it was many times faster than the
fastest PIC, and since it had eight simple cores, loaded program from
eeprom into RAM, it was so different it didn't fit the microcontroller
model that we had gotten used to. If you look at the block diagram of
it, it's easy to imagine what you'd need to do to prototype it.

Cheerful regards,

Bob

-- http://www.fastmail.fm - mmm... Fastmail...

2011\06\08@184954 by Michael Watterson

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On 08/06/2011 23:13, Bob Blick wrote:
> Back when the propeller came out, it was many times faster than the
> fastest PIC, and since it had eight simple cores, loaded program from
> eeprom into RAM, it was so different it didn't fit the microcontroller
> model that we had gotten used to. If you look at the block diagram of
> it, it's easy to imagine what you'd need to do to prototype it.
>

8 ARMs?

In 1984 .. 1987 I was convinced the x86 was stupid. I still am.

I spent some time with Occam and visiting people using Transputers.

The PIC is basically 1970s design. The basic 16F is pretty horrible basic architecture really. But very flexible I/O mapping and easy Flash programming, so handy for loads of simple applications. People used i960s, ARM, MIP, Power PC, even x86 SOC for more powerful embedded applications. Industrial & Telecom systems, not just x86 shared i/o +RAM servers have used arrays of cpus each with RAM.

Graphics cards are becoming more general purpose and can have hundreds of simple cpu cores.

The Propeller is interesting. But without a LOT more RAM per core, it's fairly niche.  Same issue with x86 and ARM. both have 4 core versions and having more cores is largely pointless without dedicated program RAM and and I/O on each core, like Transputer.

If the Transputer had been Intel or Samsung and Programmers ready to learn parallel orientated languages then today we would have 16 core Transputers with each having internal and external separate serial i/o and about 32M dedicated RAM per core on chip.

I've thought many times about getting a Parallax Propeller chip, but I don't have the niche applications to really take advantage of it.

2011\06\08@192934 by Mike Harrison

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On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 23:49:27 +0100, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

faster, and more on a par with FPGA's in terms of performance for those tasks they are suited to.

2011\06\08@222244 by Herbert Graf

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On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 22:51 +0100, Michael Watterson wrote:
> On 08/06/2011 20:17, Bob Blick wrote:
> > The propeller is very FPGA-like.
>
> I have an Spartan FPGA. Not much like it at all. Does remind me more of
> Transputer and Occam

The op was referring to the "boot up" that occurs. Like FPGAs, it reads
from an external rom, copies it to onboard memory and then executes from
there. That is very similar to FPGAs which load their bitstream from
external NV memory, loads the config SRAM, and then starts operation.

TTYL

2011\06\08@222443 by Herbert Graf

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On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 22:49 +0100, Michael Watterson wrote:
> On 08/06/2011 19:37, Bob Blick wrote:
> > You also need an EEPROM for it to load your program. The propeller is
> > like an FPGA in that respect, it runs from RAM but needs to load it at
> > powerup time.
>
> You mean it's like an ordinary processor and not like PIC 18F / 16F
> etc.. Back in the olden days before FPGAs existed we had EPROMs Or
> Occasionally battery backed static RAM/

Yes, but in those cases program execution happened from the ROM. Unless
you had a shadowing situation, in which case the propellor type process
was done.

> I don't believe Intel has made an x86 yet either with on board flash.
> They all run from RAM :-)

Yes, but again, unlike FPGAs and the propeller, the RAM is external for
x86 (ignoring things like caches).

TTYL

2011\06\08@235941 by Isaac Marino Bavaresco

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Em 8/6/2011 23:22, Herbert Graf escreveu:
> On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 22:51 +0100, Michael Watterson wrote:
>> On 08/06/2011 20:17, Bob Blick wrote:
>>> The propeller is very FPGA-like.
>> I have an Spartan FPGA. Not much like it at all. Does remind me more of
>> Transputer and Occam
> The op was referring to the "boot up" that occurs. Like FPGAs, it reads
> from an external rom, copies it to onboard memory and then executes from
> there. That is very similar to FPGAs which load their bitstream from
> external NV memory, loads the config SRAM, and then starts operation.
>
> TTYL


This is similar to the Cypress EZ-USB also, a 48 MIPS 8051 MCU.

2011\06\09@112742 by Hector Garcia

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I'm working with propeller since about a year. I'm glad you discovered too.

First of all, you can find a lot of information on the parallax web site
http://www.parallax.com

there is an exclusive page for propeller

http://www.parallax.com/tabid/407/Default.aspx

On the propeller download page
http://www.parallax.com/ProductInfo/Microcontrollers/PropellerGeneralInformation/PropellerMediaPage/tabid/832/Default.aspx

You can download the Propeller Tool Software for Windows,
and the Brad's Spin Tool, which runs in Linux an Mac.

There is also the propeller Manual where, in page 17 you can find the
-almost- minimal hardware connections.
http://www.parallax.com/Portals/0/Downloads/docs/prod/prop/PropellerHardwareConnections.pdf

Theoretically, the propeller can work only with a serial connection
(to load the program to RAM) and power supply. Practically, its best
to run it with an eeprom, as Bob noted, and a FTDI chip for serial.

Regards


-- Hector
--
El Pic no pudo Iniciar correctamente.
Inserte el disco de arranque y presione cualquier pin para continuar...

Linux Registered User #467500
http://counter.li.org

2011\06\09@113608 by Hector Garcia

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I forgot to mention maybe the most important things about propeller.

there is and oustanding comunity around propeller, many of them, in
the propeller forum
http://forums.parallax.com/forumdisplay.php?65-Propeller-Chip

They're all kind of genius who make tons of code lines that they share
on the Propeller Object Exchange(OBEX)


http://obex.parallax.com/

Where you can learn propeller since basic to very advanced
acknowlegment about propeller

Best regards

2011/6/9 Hector Garcia <RemoveMEhectorogarciaspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com>:
{Quote hidden}

-- Hector
--
El Pic no pudo Iniciar correctamente.
Inserte el disco de arranque y presione cualquier pin para continuar...

Linux Registered User #467500
http://counter.li.org

2011\06\09@125111 by Byron Jeff

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One question: Are the inputs 5V tolerant? I see it's a 3.3V part.

BAJ

On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 11:27:21AM -0400, Hector Garcia wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2011\06\09@163923 by Dwayne Reid

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At 11:33 AM 6/9/2011, Byron Jeff wrote:
>One question: Are the inputs 5V tolerant? I see it's a 3.3V part.

Datasheet says that max allowable input voltage is Vdd + 0.3V.  So: no.  The inputs are NOT 5V tolerant.

dwayne

-- Dwayne Reid   <dwaynerEraseMEspam.....planet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2011\06\09@165455 by Herbert Graf

picon face
On Thu, 2011-06-09 at 14:39 -0600, Dwayne Reid wrote:
> At 11:33 AM 6/9/2011, Byron Jeff wrote:
> >One question: Are the inputs 5V tolerant? I see it's a 3.3V part.
>
> Datasheet says that max allowable input voltage is Vdd + 0.3V.  So:
> no.  The inputs are NOT 5V tolerant.

I'd say the days of 5V are certainly mostly by us. Most components are
3.3V at most these days.

I haven't designed for 5V in quite a while now.

TTYL

2011\06\09@211244 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Herbert Graf <EraseMEhkgrafspamgmail.com> wrote:
> I'd say the days of 5V are certainly mostly by us. Most components are
> 3.3V at most these days.
>
> I haven't designed for 5V in quite a while now.

It depends on the industry. In a slow moving industry like ours
(Industry Automation), product life cycle is quite long, typically
at least 10 years and can be 15 years or 20 years or more. So
we still have a lot of 5V design and I can see there will still be
the case 10 years later.

In fact, all our product are still using 5V backplanes now.
Many of the 5V parts are gone (say FPGA) so we will have to do
some redesigns along the way but that is the way it is here ---
you need to deal with component obsolescence issues constantly.
On the other hand, there are still many 5V parts available, including
MCUs and ASICs. And level shifters can be used.

And for analog parts, many of the OPAMP parts used here
are actually 36V parts. :-)


-- Xiaofa

2011\06\10@002956 by Hector Garcia

picon face
2011/6/9 Byron Jeff <RemoveMEbyronjeffEraseMEspamEraseMEmail.clayton.edu>:
> One question: Are the inputs 5V tolerant? I see it's a 3.3V part.
>
> BAJ
>
As others pointed, source voltage is not 5V tolerant.(1)
Although, i've never heard of a burned propeller  by 5V rails. (in
fact, i've never heard for a burned propeller, at all)


When interfacing 5V devices with propeller, most of cases you can use
a series resistor to limit the current across (2)

Some other cases, you need a more sophisticated solution (3)

(1) forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?85841-Propeller-Chip-5V-tolerant
(2) forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?132168-Prop-Pin-Protection-Resistor&highlight=volts
(3) http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?90723-Interfacing-bi-direction-serial-5V-devices-to-the-Prop-!-!&highlight=Volts

Regards

-- Hector
--
El Pic no pudo Iniciar correctamente.
Inserte el disco de arranque y presione cualquier pin para continuar...

Linux Registered User #467500
http://counter.li.org

2011\06\11@100300 by V G

picon face
On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 2:46 PM, RC <RemoveMErcspam_OUTspamKILLspampiclistbr.com> wrote:

> "If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you
> and I will still each have one apple.
> But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas,
> then
> each of us will have two ideas."
> (George Bernard Shaw)
>

That's the stupidest quote I've ever heard in my life.

An apple = an apple so you're trading the same thing.

There are two things wrong with comparing an idea to an apple:

1. An idea is not traded. It is copied. So you don't lose what you
"exchange".
2. An idea != an idea. They are two different things. Might as well compare
the said apple above to an orange.

So not only are you copying an idea, you are copying a *different* idea.
Nothing at all like apples. So it's a stupid comparison or analogy

2011\06\11@103040 by RC

flavicon
face
You know what? You're RIGHT... :D lol

Thanks for sharing your point of view... ;)

Best regards,

"If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you
and I will still each have one apple.
But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then
each of us will have two ideas."
(George Bernard Shaw)

"The only thing necessary to the triumph of evil, is that good men do
nothing."
(Edmund Burke)



On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 11:02, V G <RemoveMEx.solarwind.xTakeThisOuTspamspamgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2011\06\11@111035 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
At 10:29 AM 6/11/2011, you wrote:
>You know what? You're RIGHT... :D lol
>
>Thanks for sharing your point of view... ;)

Just goes to show that GBS was an optimist. Sometimes one is left poorer
after such an exchange.

http://www.allaboutapples.com/varieties/

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
RemoveMEspeffKILLspamspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

2011\06\11@112435 by Oli Glaser

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On 11/06/2011 15:02, V G wrote:
> 1. An idea is not traded. It is copied. So you don't lose what you
> "exchange".
> 2. An idea != an idea. They are two different things. Might as well compare
> the said apple above to an orange.
>
> So not only are you copying an idea, you are copying a*different*  idea.

I think that's exactly the point, that the two people end up with *two* ideas each because they don't lose what they exchange (i.e it "costs" them nothing to exchange it)
Even if you swap for an orange the point is roughly the same, they are physical objects, so you have to "lose" in order to "give". He was probably trying to highlight the difference.

2011\06\11@120533 by John Gardner

picon face
Apples?  OK, Speff - I'll bite...  :)

Jac

2011\06\11@120838 by John Gardner

picon face
.... I'll bite

Never mind. I see - I think..

2011\06\11@142326 by RussellMc

face picon face
> Apples?  OK, Speff - I'll bite...  :)

Less messy than biting Oranges.


          R

2011\06\11@205519 by V G

picon face
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 2:22 PM, RussellMc <apptechnzSTOPspamspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:

> > Apples?  OK, Speff - I'll bite...  :)
>

Sorry for OT, but I'm a tad bit allergic to apples (I think). Oranges, on
the other hand, are delicious. The clean, watery, delicious, sweet juice
that comes out of an orange when you bite it is probably one of the few
reasons to live life.

Packaged orange juice, however, tastes absolutely nothing like it

2011\06\11@205630 by Roger, in Bangkok

face
flavicon
face
'specially when not peeled ...

RiB

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 01:22, RussellMc <spamBeGoneapptechnzSTOPspamspamEraseMEgmail.com> wrote:

> > Apples?  OK, Speff - I'll bite...  :)
>
> Less messy than biting Oranges.
>
>
>           R
>
>

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