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'[EE] Power-tool batteries'
2007\09\22@143907 by Martin Klingensmith

face
flavicon
face
Hello all,
I'm working on a product that will use between 10 and 20 watts for a
minute or longer duration. It should be portable and not rely on house
AC power so what we are looking at using are portable tool batteries
such as those used for drills. Alternatively I suppose we could make our
own battery packs that mount inside the device, but a professional
looking removable battery seems to fit the bill better. We will have to
either design or get a design for the plastic part that the battery
mates to as well. Has anyone ever used these in a product they've
designed, do you know where I might find them?

Thanks,
--
Martin K

2007\09\22@154704 by Bob Blick

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Martin Klingensmith wrote:
> Hello all,
> I'm working on a product that will use between 10 and 20 watts for a
> minute or longer duration. It should be portable and not rely on house
> AC power so what we are looking at using are portable tool batteries
> such as those used for drills. Alternatively I suppose we could make our
> own battery packs that mount inside the device, but a professional
> looking removable battery seems to fit the bill better. We will have to
> either design or get a design for the plastic part that the battery
> mates to as well. Has anyone ever used these in a product they've
> designed, do you know where I might find them?

In certain parts of the country the phrase "Harbor Freight" springs to
all engineers minds :) Just use the connector and battery and charger
and throw the rest of the drill away.

Cheerful regards,

Bob

2007\09\22@155407 by Brendan Gillatt

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Martin Klingensmith wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Depending on what you want them for you could try using the hobby type
battery packs with Tamiya connectors. They should have enough power and
are not in short supply.

- --
Brendan Gillatt
brendan {at} brendangillatt {dot} co {dot} uk
http://www.brendangillatt.co.uk
PGP Key: pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xBACD7433
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2007\09\22@191147 by Jinx

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> In certain parts of the country the phrase "Harbor Freight" springs
> to all engineers minds :) Just use the connector and battery and
> charger and throw the rest of the drill away

Despite my misgivings about some Chinese products, $10-$20
power tools are an excellent source of hardware (motors and
gearboxes, speed controls etc). The only proviso is the quality
of the battery. It may not, probably won't actually, have the
number of charge cycles you expect. ISTR that's 1,000 for a
good quality NiCd. Or even the capacity you might assume from
the pack size



2007\09\23@082827 by John Chung

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--- Brendan Gillatt <spam_OUTbrendanTakeThisOuTspambrendangillatt.co.uk>
wrote:

{Quote hidden}

 I second that.

John


     ____________________________________________________________________________________
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz

2007\09\23@223836 by Charles Rogers

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We will have to
> either design or get a design for the plastic part that the battery
> mates to as well. Has anyone ever used these in a product they've
> designed,




do you know where I might find them?


Martin:
Try to locate a place that rebuilds those battery packs for
power tools..  I have one being rebuilt now and the  cost
is very reasonable.   They sometimes have units that were
not picked up by the original customer and can be bought
at a reasonable price.  I have used these battery packs
as a power supply and it worked very well for my
application.

CR

2007\09\24@072640 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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{Quote hidden}

How much of that is down to the quality of the cells and how much down to the quality of the charger I wonder?

Mike

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2007\09\24@080930 by Jinx

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> How much of that is down to the quality of the cells and how
> much down to the quality of the charger I wonder?

I know Russell has had experiences with Chinese batteries, and
the expectation is, rightly or wrongly, that they aren't top-notch.
ISTR Russell's turned out to be fakes. It might well be that a
better charger would improve the lifetime. I must say that the
chargers that come with many of these tools are basic (my 18V
B&D Predator has just a barely-regulated 24V plugpack), and
that batteries do seem to go flat rather quickly. Probably worth
looking into

2007\09\24@105803 by 556RECON

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Charles Rogers wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Here is a website that sells Radio control battery pack of all sizes

Recon

2007\09\24@115546 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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On Sep 24, 2007, at 4:26 AM, Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:

> How much of that is down to the quality of the cells

Some of the cheap "18V" cordless drills don't weigh enough
to have 15 AA cells in them, and I wonder just what they DO
have.  (I think Harbor freight is generally better than this;
I'm talking the really cheap versions that appear in random
dollar stores and similar.)

BillW

2007\09\24@130032 by David VanHorn

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On 9/24/07, William Chops Westfield <.....westfwKILLspamspam.....mac.com> wrote:
>
> On Sep 24, 2007, at 4:26 AM, Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:
>
> > How much of that is down to the quality of the cells
>
> Some of the cheap "18V" cordless drills don't weigh enough
> to have 15 AA cells in them, and I wonder just what they DO
> have.  (I think Harbor freight is generally better than this;
> I'm talking the really cheap versions that appear in random
> dollar stores and similar.)

A sticker with eighteen "V"s on it?
:)

2007\09\24@162105 by David VanHorn

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I can't vouch for the cell's pedigrees, but all-battery.com has some
good prices, and I am using their Li-Po cells currently.  (with
crossed fingers.)

2007\09\24@174321 by Matt Pobursky

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On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:18:51 -0400, David VanHorn wrote:
> I can't vouch for the cell's pedigrees, but all-battery.com has some good
> prices, and I am using their Li-Po cells currently.  (with crossed
> fingers.)

I'll be very interested to see how these cells work out for you since I was
one person recommending all-battery.com. So far I've thoroughly tested many
of their NiMH, Li-Ion cylindrical cells and Li-Polymer cells. I've had very
good luck with them but then again they don't appear to be "bottom of the
barrel" chinese cells. In particular I like their NiMH AA cells.

One of the biggest reasons we've been using their Li-Ion cells is that many
of the "big guys" (or their distributors) aren't interested in our business
(100's to low 1000's of cells).

You and Bob A are about the only guys I've observed that are as picky (and
thorough) about batteries as I am so I always note what you guys have to
say re. batteries. Most of my cells go into fairly high reliability devices
(medical [non-patient connected], commercial automotive test and diagnostic
gear and a few other similar devices) so I tend to be conservative on the
power management and charger design.

FWIW, I've also been pleasantly surprised by the Harbor Freight battery
packs. I have a couple of their 18V drills and 4 battery packs. I've had
them for close to two years now and no battery troubles. I haven't cracked
it open but it appears they may have a much better than typical unregulated
trickle/fast charger. It's a fast charger with monitoring LEDS and some
sort of disconnect relay (you can hear it click in and out). At any rate,
the packs are retaining their capacity quite well -- much better than the
consumer brand names like Black & Decker, etc. I've had in the past.

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems

2007\09\24@175821 by Jinx

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> Some of the cheap "18V" cordless drills don't weigh enough
> to have 15 AA cells in them, and I wonder just what they DO
> have

I got a free pocket radio with something, and it included 2 AAA
batteries. They're actually just tubes, skilfully fashioned to look
exactly like AAA batteries, that weigh less than 1/2 a real one.
Considering the relative packaging, the effective energy source
would be a lot less than 1/2 AAA. Probably got some sort of
coin cell inside

And I ask myself the same question I regularly do - what's the
bloody point going to all that trouble and expense (ha ! expense)
to make something that's essentially junk ?

Like the grabber I bought to reach into the fish pond to get leaves
and stuff. Fairly well-made (ostensibly), reasonable price

http://www.jaycar.co.nz  product TH1844

After two weeks the half-arsed weld joining the cable to the grip
gave way, rendering it completely useless. The tinkerer in me
would like to find a way to repair it. The consumer in me rolled
his eyes and sighed "Oh, for f***'s sake"

2007\09\24@185106 by Tony Smith

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> And I ask myself the same question I regularly do - what's
> the bloody point going to all that trouble and expense (ha !
> expense) to make something that's essentially junk ?
>
> Like the grabber I bought to reach into the fish pond to get
> leaves and stuff. Fairly well-made (ostensibly), reasonable price
>
> http://www.jaycar.co.nz  product TH1844
>
> After two weeks the half-arsed weld joining the cable to the
> grip gave way, rendering it completely useless. The tinkerer
> in me would like to find a way to repair it. The consumer in
> me rolled his eyes and sighed "Oh, for f***'s sake"


I've seen AAA batteries packaged as 'D' cells (and seen the 'adapters' as
well, but that's ok).

There was an article in 'Silicon Chip' magazine a while back about making a
wind-speed meter out of, well, junk.

For the cups, you toddled off to your local cheap junk store, and purchased
a few shiny new soup ladles.  In this case, the half-arsed welding was a
bonus as you could easily snap the handles off.  No damage to the cups,
bonus!

(The rest of the meter was a plastic chopping board, bicycle wheel hub, bike
speedo etc)

Tony

2007\09\24@195606 by Jinx

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> For the cups, you toddled off to your local cheap junk store, and
> purchased a few shiny new soup ladles

Trying to impress on my nephew that $2 shops and the like are great
sources of hardware that normally you couldn't get OTS. Keypads,
transformers, switches, components etc. All neatly packaged as a
piece of electronic crap that wouldn't last 5 minutes as the product
it was represented as

2007\09\24@221405 by 556RECON

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556RECON wrote:

><SNIP>
>  
>
>>> <>
>>> do you know where I might find them?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>Here is a website that sells Radio control battery pack of all sizes
>
>Recon
>  
>
http://www.maxamps.com/index.php

Sorry forgot the link before.

2007\09\24@234212 by Dr Skip

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Trying to convince the wife is even tougher.... Especially when you have a room
full of such 'inventory'. ;)

Jinx wrote:
>
> Trying to impress on my nephew that $2 shops and the like are great
> sources of hardware that normally you couldn't get OTS. Keypads,
> transformers, switches, components etc. All neatly packaged as a
> piece of electronic crap that wouldn't last 5 minutes as the product
> it was represented as
>

2007\09\25@001442 by Jinx

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> Trying to convince the wife is even tougher.... Especially when
> you have a room full of such 'inventory'. ;)

Why do you think I'm dragging my nephew into this lark ? ;-))

Already unloaded a couple of boxes of "wonderful and expensive"
components on him. All he has to do is a **bit** of desoldering

Seriously, he's doing an electrician's apprenticeship and I've told
him there's much more scope if he can also do electronics. He's
keen enough - when not groping his new girlfriend (him, not me.
Hmmm, wonder how she feels about older men ? How's my hair ?
Breath OK ?)

When Battlebots etc were all the rage he wanted to have a go at
building a robot. Only now is he appreciating what's actually involved
to make good one

2007\09\25@090321 by Charles Rogers

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>
> Some of the cheap "18V" cordless drills don't weigh enough
> to have 15 AA cells in them, and I wonder just what they DO
> have.  


The battery packs that I am familiar with use a battery
that the rebuilders refers to as a "1.2 volt sub C",  they are
slightly smaller than a regular C cell.  I don't know of any
cordless power tools that use a AA cell .

CR

2007\09\25@115810 by David VanHorn

picon face
> One of the biggest reasons we've been using their Li-Ion cells is that many
> of the "big guys" (or their distributors) aren't interested in our business
> (100's to low 1000's of cells).

Yeah, same observation here.

> You and Bob A are about the only guys I've observed that are as picky (and
> thorough) about batteries as I am so I always note what you guys have to
> say re. batteries. Most of my cells go into fairly high reliability devices
> (medical [non-patient connected], commercial automotive test and diagnostic
> gear and a few other similar devices) so I tend to be conservative on the
> power management and charger design.

The ones I made up last week are headed for a military expo next week,
and then the EPG at Ft Huachuca.

> FWIW, I've also been pleasantly surprised by the Harbor Freight battery
> packs. I have a couple of their 18V drills and 4 battery packs. I've had
> them for close to two years now and no battery troubles. I haven't cracked
> it open but it appears they may have a much better than typical unregulated
> trickle/fast charger. It's a fast charger with monitoring LEDS and some
> sort of disconnect relay (you can hear it click in and out). At any rate,
> the packs are retaining their capacity quite well -- much better than the
> consumer brand names like Black & Decker, etc. I've had in the past.

I'm leery of consumer stuff, even the big names now are buying the
bottom-feeder stuff to keep prices down. Quality is turning into
"quality" everywhere..
Phoo.

2007\09\25@120241 by Dr Skip

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I know the 12v and 14.4v Harbor Freight ones are 1.3Ah, and I think they are
NiCds. I've got several years on mine, while 4 DeWalt packs have gone flat.
I've wondered why they don't use AA size which, in NimH, can run 2300mAh+. If
it weren't for the welded tabs lacking on consumer cells, it would be easy to
make an upgrade. I'm seriously considering making some packs with wood holders
in the shop using brass strip and anti-ox compound for contacts.

Charles Rogers wrote:
>
>
> The battery packs that I am familiar with use a battery
> that the rebuilders refers to as a "1.2 volt sub C",  they are
> slightly smaller than a regular C cell.  I don't know of any
> cordless power tools that use a AA cell .
>
> CR

2007\09\25@121913 by KPL

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On 9/25/07, Dr Skip <EraseMEdrskipspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:
> I know the 12v and 14.4v Harbor Freight ones are 1.3Ah, and I think they are
> NiCds. I've got several years on mine, while 4 DeWalt packs have gone flat.
> I've wondered why they don't use AA size which, in NimH, can run 2300mAh+. If
> it weren't for the welded tabs lacking on consumer cells, it would be easy to
> make an upgrade. I'm seriously considering making some packs with wood holders
> in the shop using brass strip and anti-ox compound for contacts.
>

I have seen somewhere on web, somebody was welding those tabs with
very simple tools. Kind of simple transformer with some special rods
to hold the tab and the other one to touch the contact area near the
tab so current does not run through battery. AFAIR he was building
battery packs for notebook PC's, may be that helps searching.

--
KPL

2007\09\25@121915 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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On Sep 25, 2007, at 6:03 AM, Charles Rogers wrote:

>> Some of the cheap "18V" cordless drills don't weigh enough
>> to have 15 AA cells

> The battery packs that I am familiar with use a battery
> that the rebuilders refers to as a "1.2 volt sub C"

Right.  So do the  tools I'm used to.  My point is that
some of the cheap tools don't seem to weigh enough to
contain the required number of sub-C cells to meet their
voltage spec; they don't even weigh enough to contain
the required number of AA cells...

BillW

2007\09\25@123331 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


>-----Original Message-----
>From: piclist-bouncesspamspam_OUTmit.edu [@spam@piclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu]
>On Behalf Of Dr Skip
>Sent: 25 September 2007 17:03
>To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
>Subject: Re: [EE] Power-tool batteries
>
>
>I know the 12v and 14.4v Harbor Freight ones are 1.3Ah, and I
>think they are
>NiCds. I've got several years on mine, while 4 DeWalt packs
>have gone flat.
>I've wondered why they don't use AA size which, in NimH, can
>run 2300mAh+.

NiCd cells have lower internal resistance than NiMH which is whay they are more useful for high current applications such as power tools.

Mike

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2007\09\25@153918 by Herbert Graf

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On Tue, 2007-09-25 at 08:03 -0500, Charles Rogers wrote:
> >
> > Some of the cheap "18V" cordless drills don't weigh enough
> > to have 15 AA cells in them, and I wonder just what they DO
> > have.  
>
>
> The battery packs that I am familiar with use a battery
> that the rebuilders refers to as a "1.2 volt sub C",  they are
> slightly smaller than a regular C cell.  I don't know of any
> cordless power tools that use a AA cell .

Unfortunately it's my experience that size of cell rarely has a strong
bearing to capacity.

For example, ever check out the Energizer "D" NiMH cells at Home Depot?
If you look at the ratings you can see that the "D" cells have the same
capacity as the "AA" cells!?? They basically took an AA and encased it
in a "D" case.

Another example is the solar LED garden lights I have. They have 1 AA
cell in them, but the cell is MUCH lighter the other NiCad cells I have.
Looking at the rating they are only 600mAh.

TTYL

2007\09\25@154229 by Herbert Graf

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On Tue, 2007-09-25 at 12:03 -0400, Dr Skip wrote:
> I know the 12v and 14.4v Harbor Freight ones are 1.3Ah, and I think they are
> NiCds. I've got several years on mine, while 4 DeWalt packs have gone flat.
> I've wondered why they don't use AA size which, in NimH, can run 2300mAh+. If
> it weren't for the welded tabs lacking on consumer cells, it would be easy to
> make an upgrade. I'm seriously considering making some packs with wood holders
> in the shop using brass strip and anti-ox compound for contacts.

I'm not sure it would be worth the effort. Yes, NiMH batteries would
have the same capacity, but the reason NiCad is still so popular in the
power tool area is their internal resistance is in general lower
(sometimes much lower) then NiMH cells. For an MP3 player this isn't
much of an issue. For a cordless drill this is a VERY big issue, and I'm
willing to bet those 2300mAh NiMH wouldn't last that much longer then
the 1300mAh NiCad cells would.

LiIon OTOH seems to do VERY well in this area, and you're starting to
see tools come with those cells. Unfortunately the danger level is
higher so they have to really beef up the charging circuitry and cell
protection vs. the NiCad packs. TTYL

2007\09\25@200558 by Charles Rogers

picon face

----- Original Message -----
From: "Herbert Graf" <KILLspammailinglist3KILLspamspamfarcite.net>

Subject: Re: [EE] Power-tool batteries
>
> Unfortunately it's my experience that size of cell rarely has a strong
> bearing to capacity.
>

My reference to physical size was because a regular C cell can't
be  used to replace the sub C's in power tool battery packs.
At least that was true in the battery packs that I have had rebuilt.

Power tool battery packs do make a good power supply in some
instances for bench work.

By the way how do I find your web site for your Carmon? ?

CR

2007\09\25@203743 by Herbert Graf

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On Tue, 2007-09-25 at 19:05 -0500, Charles Rogers wrote:

> By the way how do I find your web site for your Carmon? ?

Hmm, odd, I used to have that in my signature, but it's not there
anymore...

http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/carmon

Thanks, TTYL

2007\09\25@222505 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
On 9/25/07, Herbert Graf <RemoveMEmailinglist3TakeThisOuTspamfarcite.net> wrote:
> For example, ever check out the Energizer "D" NiMH cells at Home Depot?
> If you look at the ratings you can see that the "D" cells have the same
> capacity as the "AA" cells!?? They basically took an AA and encased it
> in a "D" case.
>

I think part of the reason for this may be that they just recently
dramatically increased the capacity of their AA NiMH cells. I'm not
sure they have gotten around yet to doing the same for the D cells. In
other words, I think they all started out in proportion and then the
AA got much better and the larger ones are still the same as before.

2007\09\25@235653 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>> For example, ever check out the Energizer "D" NiMH cells at Home
>> Depot?
>> If you look at the ratings you can see that the "D" cells have the
>> same
>> capacity as the "AA" cells!?? They basically took an AA and encased
>> it
>> in a "D" case.

> I think part of the reason for this may be that they just recently
> dramatically increased the capacity of their AA NiMH cells. I'm not
> sure they have gotten around yet to doing the same for the D cells.
> In
> other words, I think they all started out in proportion and then the
> AA got much better and the larger ones are still the same as before.

Varta D NiCds (let alone NimH) claimed 4000 mAh in 1993. The best AA's
not made of nonexisteum are quite a way below that still. A "real" D
cell can have about 5 times the capacity of an AA. You can fit 3
complete AA's inside the volume of a D cell with room to spare around
them.

There has been a long accepted practice of fitting AA sized capacity
in D size cases, which is not a problem as long as everyone
understands what is being done and why. Alas, many buyers don't and
the prices can be out of all proportion to the capacity.



           Russell





2007\09\26@053918 by Tony Smith

picon face
> >> Some of the cheap "18V" cordless drills don't weigh enough
> to have 15
> >> AA cells
>
> > The battery packs that I am familiar with use a battery that the
> > rebuilders refers to as a "1.2 volt sub C"
>
> Right.  So do the  tools I'm used to.  My point is that some
> of the cheap tools don't seem to weigh enough to contain the
> required number of sub-C cells to meet their voltage spec;
> they don't even weigh enough to contain the required number
> of AA cells...


There's a couple of sub-C sizes, the usual one is 2/3rd the height (I think)
and there's a 1/2 height one as well.  I also saw one that was about 6mm too
short...

AA batteries comes in different heights as well, 1/2, 3/4, 4/5 and the extra
long 5/4 variety.

Order enough and you can get whatever size you like, I suppose.

Tony

2007\09\26@084729 by Jeff Findley

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face

"Russell McMahon" <spamBeGoneapptechspamBeGonespamparadise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:02fb01c7fff1$56c12c10$e701a8c0@y2k...
> Varta D NiCds (let alone NimH) claimed 4000 mAh in 1993. The best AA's
> not made of nonexisteum are quite a way below that still. A "real" D
> cell can have about 5 times the capacity of an AA. You can fit 3
> complete AA's inside the volume of a D cell with room to spare around
> them.
>
> There has been a long accepted practice of fitting AA sized capacity
> in D size cases, which is not a problem as long as everyone
> understands what is being done and why. Alas, many buyers don't and
> the prices can be out of all proportion to the capacity.

For a time, I saw rechargeable NiMH kits that had a charger, four AA NiMH
batteries, four plastic and metal C adapters, and four plastic and metal D
adapters.  It was pretty obvious that you were only going to get AA capacity
out of that setup.  ;-)

Now I can't seem to find the things.  They were at Big Lots for a time.

Jeff
--
   "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
    little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
    safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)



2007\09\26@110736 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Tue, 2007-09-25 at 22:25 -0400, Sean Breheny wrote:
> I think part of the reason for this may be that they just recently
> dramatically increased the capacity of their AA NiMH cells. I'm not
> sure they have gotten around yet to doing the same for the D cells. In
> other words, I think they all started out in proportion and then the
> AA got much better and the larger ones are still the same as before.

I don't think so, it's not just them, I've checked other brands and it
seems common.

Also, those "D" cells weigh exactly the same as the "AA" cells! Of
course, since they're marked "D" cells they are more then twice the
price, nice tidy profit there IMHO.

TTYL

2007\09\26@123628 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Sep 25, 2007, at 8:57 PM, Russell McMahon wrote:

> There has been a long accepted practice of fitting AA sized capacity
> in D size cases, which is not a problem as long as everyone
> understands what is being done and why.

It's a long accepted practice that D cells are not "filled" with
battery, and have similar capacity to smaller cells.  I recall a
"Consumer Reports" review about a decade ago praising Radio Shack
as one of the few battery brands whose D-sized rechargables had
more capacity than their C sized in the same chemistry.  (I *think*
that the "reduced" capacity has usually been larger than AA.)
(It wouldn't be so bad if you paid for what you got..., but then
DON'T pay 5x the AA price either.)

The "state of the art" still lags AA efforts, but "real" D-sized
NiMH batteries seem to rate 10000mAH; just about the 5x value of
"not-pushing-things" AA cells, as Russell states.  Alas, they
also actually cost about 5x an AA cell ($8-10 each), which is
more than most people want to pay for a battery...

BillW

2007\09\26@125034 by William \Chops\ Westfield

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On Sep 26, 2007, at 5:44 AM, Jeff Findley wrote:

> I saw rechargeable NiMH kits that had a charger, four AA NiMH
> batteries, four plastic and metal C adapters, and four plastic and  
> metal D
> adapters.
>
> Now I can't seem to find the things.  They were at Big Lots for a  
> time.
>

The "eneloop" (Sanyo low-self-discharge NiMH) kit being sold at most
Cosco stores these days is like this (more or less.  4AA, 4AAA cells,
2 each C and D adaptors.)

BillW

2007\09\26@180136 by Robert Rolf

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William "Chops" Westfield wrote:

> The "state of the art" still lags AA efforts, but "real" D-sized
> NiMH batteries seem to rate 10000mAH; just about the 5x value of
> "not-pushing-things" AA cells, as Russell states.  Alas, they
> also actually cost about 5x an AA cell ($8-10 each), which is
> more than most people want to pay for a battery...

Unless you want to spot weld with them.
D sized NiCads (and to a lesser extent NiMH) can put out HUGE
current for a few seconds.

Of course power tool packs have fuses inside to prevent this kind
of use, but you open the pack and.... Handy for attaching tabs to
non tabbed batteries. (and fixing broken nichrome heater elements
when you don't own a 'real' spot welder).


Robert

2007\09\27@054413 by Howard Winter

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David,

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:58:02 -0400, David VanHorn wrote:

> I'm leery of consumer stuff, even the big names now are buying the
> bottom-feeder stuff to keep prices down. Quality is turning into
> "quality" everywhere..

Over here, Black & Decker has been the biggest consumer name since I was a kid, and has been known as the firm that sells power tools to the wives and girfriends
of DIY men, as christmas & birthday presents, so the selling points tend to be cosmetic rather than technical.  Hence the rumour that at one time their prettiest
electric drills had a life-expectancy of about an hour and a half!

I've always thought of DeWalt as the top of the tree, and I have a lot of their 18V stuff, but I've just had a (very expensive!) battery of theirs fail after very little
use - it was in a radio that has mains power most of the time so the battery is just kept topped up.  I tried to use the battery and found it was flat - reading about
4V.  Charged it on an external charger, which indicated success, but the battery was still flat!  I've written to them on the subject - it will be interesting to see
what they say, but as I'm on the "wrong" side of the pond I suspect I may get brushed off.

As for trying to keep the prices down, they don't seem to have tried very hard with this one - even on eBay they're US$80 each!

> Phoo.

That's rather what I thought!

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2007\09\27@060234 by Jinx

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> I've always thought of DeWalt as the top of the tree

I'm not a rough boy when it comes to tools, but I've tried just
about every brand and had failures. A Skil saw that threw its
bearings all over the place, Ryobis with packed-up motors, a
DeWalt router that stripped a gear, B&D drill with a too crunchy
hammer drive ...... etc etc. Some I paid $$$$$ for. Reluctant to
do so anymore. IMHO I now don't think it's false economy to
buy (some) cheap tools. Consider an $800 DeWalt saw vs
10 x $80 saws

2007\09\27@064508 by Tony Smith

picon face
> > I've always thought of DeWalt as the top of the tree
>
> I'm not a rough boy when it comes to tools, but I've tried
> just about every brand and had failures. A Skil saw that
> threw its bearings all over the place, Ryobis with packed-up
> motors, a DeWalt router that stripped a gear, B&D drill with
> a too crunchy hammer drive ...... etc etc. Some I paid $$$$$
> for. Reluctant to do so anymore. IMHO I now don't think it's
> false economy to buy (some) cheap tools. Consider an $800
> DeWalt saw vs 10 x $80 saws


Cheap tools & expensive sharp bits... usually works out.  Especially when
the tool goes 'missing'; no-one ever takes the drill bits or blades.

Tony

2007\09\27@071145 by Jinx

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> Cheap tools & expensive sharp bits... usually works out

It so does. I've still got all my carbide bits and blades, but the
first tools to use them are long dead


2007\09\27@071238 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


>-----Original Message-----
>From: TakeThisOuTpiclist-bouncesEraseMEspamspam_OUTmit.edu [RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu]
>On Behalf Of Jinx
>Sent: 27 September 2007 11:02
>To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
>Subject: Re: [EE] Power-tool batteries
>
>
>> I've always thought of DeWalt as the top of the tree
>
>I'm not a rough boy when it comes to tools, but I've tried
>just about every brand and had failures. A Skil saw that threw
>its bearings all over the place, Ryobis with packed-up motors,
>a DeWalt router that stripped a gear, B&D drill with a too
>crunchy hammer drive ...... etc etc. Some I paid $$$$$ for.
>Reluctant to do so anymore. IMHO I now don't think it's false
>economy to buy (some) cheap tools. Consider an $800 DeWalt saw
>vs 10 x $80 saws

I agree in many cases, but if you are using these tools daily then IMO posh ones do tend to be much nicer to use e.g. lighter and more ergonomically designed.

The quality of B&D tool is very poor these days compared to their older tools.  I still have a B&D power drill that my father gave me, probably 20 years ago, and it was probably 20 years old then.  Solid alloy housing (make sure the earth is connected!) and virtualy indestructable gearbox, though it's had a couple of sets of brushes.  Considering it spent a good portion of it's life in a B&D circular saw adapter (the most lethal contraption ever) it's done very well.

Mike

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2007\09\27@073853 by Jinx

face picon face
> I agree in many cases, but if you are using these tools daily then
> IMO posh ones do tend to be much nicer to use e.g. lighter and
> more ergonomically designed.

There are certainly some very comfortable tools with gel grips

> The quality of B&D tool is very poor these days compared to
> their older tools.  I still have a B&D power drill that my father
> gave me, probably 20 years ago, and it was probably 20 years
> old then.  Solid alloy housing (make sure the earth is connected!)
> and virtualy indestructable gearbox, though it's had a couple of
> sets of brushes.  Considering it spent a good portion of it's life
> in a B&D circular saw adapter (the most lethal contraption ever)
> it's done very well.

Snap. Dad had one of those. Used to bugger up the TV something
rotten (worse than the Scalectrix did). Haven't seen the drill for a
while but have still got the lethal contraption

2007\09\27@085102 by Russell McMahon

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flavicon
face
Rod also had one of these.
Still?

>> The quality of B&D tool is very poor these days compared to
>> their older tools.  I still have a B&D power drill that my father
>> gave me, probably 20 years ago, and it was probably 20 years
>> old then.  Solid alloy housing (make sure the earth is connected!)
>> and virtualy indestructable gearbox, though it's had a couple of
>> sets of brushes.

I have one. First power drill I ever owned.
It would be about 35 years old now.
Hasn't had a lot of use in recent years but at one stage it was the
only drill I had so it did everything.
Still goes but the bearings make funny noises when you run it.
It has a 1/2" chuck on it (which is too too large for its power) as
another drill died so I swapped chucks. This is good for drilling
plastic but one should not be mislead into thinking that steel can be
drilled this way. Even though it can :-).




       Russell

2007\09\27@122800 by Charles Craft

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>
>Over here, Black & Decker has been the biggest consumer name since I was a kid, and has been known as the firm that sells power tools to the wives and girfriends
>of DIY men, as christmas & birthday presents, so the selling points tend to be cosmetic rather than technical.  Hence the rumour that at one time their prettiest
>electric drills had a life-expectancy of about an hour and a half!
>
>I've always thought of DeWalt as the top of the tree, and I have a lot of their 18V stuff, but I've just had a (very expensive!) battery of theirs fail after very little

My father-in-law has a fairly new Delta drill and the batteries
have gone tits up. Common thread here - B&D owns them all.

http://www.bdk.com/dewalt_info.htm

# DeWalt Power Tools
# Porter Cable
# Delta Machinery
# Kwikset
# Baldwin
# Weiser Lock
# Price Pfister
# Emhart Teknologies


2007\09\27@135705 by Carl Denk

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face
I had the people rebuild a dead Metabo drill battery. Was gone from home
about 10 days. When returned, I couldn't even tell where they had opened
case. Has been used for about 6 months now, and don't know if it was a
new Metabo or their battery. They are located in Penn.

Charles Craft wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\09\27@140210 by Carl Denk

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face
Forgot to add the link: :(
http://primecell.com/index.html

Carl Denk wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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