Searching \ for '[EE] PCB power plane question' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/pcbs.htm?key=pcb
Search entire site for: 'PCB power plane question'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[EE] PCB power plane question'
2008\11\25@035752 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>In this case I can use 5 and 12 split mixed plane.

OK.

>One of my main reason I do signals in middle layers
>is to protect circuit agents reverse engineering.
>Most engineers give up when they see no traces on
>top or bottom of the board.

Well, that only puts off the easily stopped people.

If someone is really wanting to reverse engineer your product then an
ohmmeter is their friend - after they have unsoldered all the components.
Been there, done that, got the schematics to show I have done so ....

2008\11\25@141816 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Andre Abelian wrote:
> John,
>
> If I erase IC numbers, conformal quote the board and put the board in
> epoxy Can they still reverse engineer the board?

Have you considered rigging your PCBs with a termite bomb, or another small
explosive?

2008\11\25@151151 by Alden Hart

flavicon
face
Vitaliy - You laugh! (or perhaps you are serious).  Some security
devices will "slag out" if you penetrate the enclosure, tip them more 45
degrees, bump them too much, etc. Can't have those super-keys getting out!

Alden


Vitaliy wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2008\11\25@154145 by Andre Abelian

flavicon
face
Yes lets put electronic spray painter inside. Rright after cover is
opened it will spray in the face then next time will start own design
instead of
copying the design.

Just kidding

Andre



-----Original Message-----
From: spam_OUTpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu [.....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu] On Behalf
Of Vitaliy
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 11:19 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re:[EE] PCB power plane question

Andre Abelian wrote:
> John,
>
> If I erase IC numbers, conformal quote the board and put the board in
> epoxy Can they still reverse engineer the board?

Have you considered rigging your PCBs with a termite bomb, or another
small
explosive?

2008\11\25@154158 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Alden Hart wrote:
>>> John,
>>>
>>> If I erase IC numbers, conformal quote the board and put the board in
>>> epoxy Can they still reverse engineer the board?
>>>
>>
>> Have you considered rigging your PCBs with a termite bomb, or another
>> small
>> explosive?
>>
>
> Vitaliy - You laugh! (or perhaps you are serious).  Some security
> devices will "slag out" if you penetrate the enclosure, tip them more 45
> degrees, bump them too much, etc. Can't have those super-keys getting out!

My next suggestion was going to be to have every PCB come with an armed
security guard. You can never be too careful with your IP.

Vitaliy

2008\11\25@154332 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Alan B. Pearce wrote:

> >In this case I can use 5 and 12 split mixed plane.
>
> OK.
>
>>One of my main reason I do signals in middle layers
>>is to protect circuit agents reverse engineering.
>>Most engineers give up when they see no traces on
>>top or bottom of the board.
>
> Well, that only puts off the easily stopped people.
>
> If someone is really wanting to reverse engineer your product then an
> ohmmeter is their friend - after they have unsoldered all the components.
> Been there, done that, got the schematics to show I have done so ....

I'm curious! :)  I suppose this was done because the device was
discontinued, and original schematics were no longer available?

Vitaliy

2008\11\25@162057 by Jinx

face picon face
>> Have you considered rigging your PCBs with a termite bomb

That was certainly an economic option in the late 1890's when wooden
circuit boards were all the rage. Some sub-species had militant factions
who would not hesitate to strap on a few bombardier beetles

2008\11\25@190839 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Jinx wrote:
>>> Have you considered rigging your PCBs with a termite bomb
>
> That was certainly an economic option in the late 1890's when wooden
> circuit boards were all the rage. Some sub-species had militant factions
> who would not hesitate to strap on a few bombardier beetles

I didn't get it at first. :) I meant the other kind of termite, a mixture of
aluminum powder and rust, the one you light with a magnesium cord.

But you're right, wooden circuit boards *were* all the rage around that
time! Although I'm only old enough to have seen cardboard ones, from the
1960's (old radiolas).

Vitaliy

2008\11\25@193111 by Jinx

face picon face
> I meant the other kind of termite, a mixture of aluminum powder and rust

Hehe, I know. It was something we used to play around with in chemistry
labs as a practical example of a redox reaction. Anything that made lots
of smoke, light and smell was always popular (with the boys)

The ferinstance we were given, welding rails, is the example here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

We had a guy fired for trying the pot permangante/glycerol method further
down that page. He'd already had a warning for iodine/ammonia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_triiodide

This was in a resin lab, which contained many flammable solvents, and a
naked flame was as welcome as a **** in a swimming pool. And much
more dangerouser of course

2008\11\26@043514 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> If someone is really wanting to reverse engineer your product then an
>> ohmmeter is their friend - after they have unsoldered all the components.
>> Been there, done that, got the schematics to show I have done so ....
>
>I'm curious! :)  I suppose this was done because the device was
>discontinued, and original schematics were no longer available?

Oh, it was that long ago that I cannot remember. I think it was more that an
enquiring mind wanted to know what the schematic was.

2008\11\26@080425 by olin piclist

face picon face
Jinx wrote:
> We had a guy fired for trying the pot permangante/glycerol method
> further down that page. He'd already had a warning for iodine/ammonia

Ha, ha.  We did both in high school.  The nitrogen triiodide was particular
fun.  We also made gunpowder, but couldn't get it to go bang.  Great orange
flames and lots of smoke though.  Saltpeter and sugar makes a great smoke
bomb.  So great that it overran the fume hood in the chem lab.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2008\11\26@083341 by Martin

face
flavicon
face
Olin Lathrop wrote:
> Jinx wrote:
>> We had a guy fired for trying the pot permangante/glycerol method
>> further down that page. He'd already had a warning for iodine/ammonia
>
> Ha, ha.  We did both in high school.  The nitrogen triiodide was particular
> fun.  We also made gunpowder, but couldn't get it to go bang.  Great orange
> flames and lots of smoke though.  Saltpeter and sugar makes a great smoke
> bomb.  So great that it overran the fume hood in the chem lab.

It probably was the real stuff, just not contained (you were smart
enough not to do that.)

I tried to make these when I was in middle/high school:
<http://balloons.space.edu/ndra/nickle.html>
I ended up creating a lot of smoke 'bombs'. I tried buying real
chemicals from: <http://skylighter.com/> but that didn't work out.

Of course, anyone who experiments with fireworks gets labeled a domestic
terrorist these days.

-
Martin

2008\11\26@092825 by olin piclist

face picon face
Martin wrote:
> It probably was the real stuff, just not contained (you were smart
> enough not to do that.)

We tried with simple things like cardboard tubes, but didn't dare metal
pipes.

> I tried to make these when I was in middle/high school:
> <http://balloons.space.edu/ndra/nickle.html>

That sounds like the same recipe for the smoke bombs we made.  The one that
overran the fume hood in the chem lab was a frozen concentrated orange juice
cardboard can full of it.  One difference is that we melted the stuff.  That
made forming it easy, and it hardened nicely after cooling.  It's not that
easy to ignite, and doesn't go boom when it does.  We did it outside using a
camp stove.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2008\11\26@194942 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Jinx wrote:
>> I meant the other kind of termite, a mixture of aluminum powder and rust
>
> Hehe, I know. It was something we used to play around with in chemistry
> labs as a practical example of a redox reaction. Anything that made lots
> of smoke, light and smell was always popular (with the boys)
>
> The ferinstance we were given, welding rails, is the example here
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

Ah, I omitted the "h". My bad. :)

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2008 , 2009 only
- Today
- New search...