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'[EE] Oscilloscopes...'
2006\04\03@073559 by olin piclist

face picon face
William Chops Westfield wrote:
> I *LIKE* my TDS-210,

I have one for my use at a customer, so have acquired some experience with
it.  My biggest gripe with it is that the horizontal trigger position stays
fixed in time relative to the center of the screen when you change time
scales.  It does not stay fixed in screen position as you would want.  This
may sound like a minor nit, but when you use the scope regularly it gets
REALLY ANNOYING.  Especially when you expand the time scale the trigger
position is suddenly gone because it got moved off screen.  If you're not
used to this "feature", you start fumbling thru the menus trying to figure
out how you accidentally made the trigger display go away.  After you're
used to it you have to remember to move the trigger to the center, expand
the time scale slowly, keep moving the trigger back to the center unless you
got it right on center the first time else the error will eventually blow up
and move it off screen, get to the right time scale, then move the trigger
back to where you had it in the first place.  It gets to the point where you
dread changing the time scale so you don't have to mess around with the
trigger.  Either that or leave the trigger in the center of the screen, but
that gets annoying too since that usually wastes half the screen.

It also pisses me off because we all know it would have been a simple
difference in the firmware to have done it right.  I understand things like
bandwidth, sample depth, number of channels, etc cost money and that a low
end scope will have less of them, but doing this right would have cost
nothing extra.

Other things that are "unimpressive" but somewhat more forgiveable in a low
end scope are the relatively low screen resolution, particularly vertically,
and the surprisingly high noise especially at faster sample rates.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\04\03@074820 by olin piclist

face picon face
kravnus wolf wrote:
> Aligent VS tek.
>
> Does it convince you to buy tek? Not sure it is all
> marketing talk there.......

I don't know if it's the same page as the link you posted, but I did see a
comparison between Tek and Agilent.  Unfortunately this was produced by Tek,
so any advantages of the Agilent might have were not mentioned.  It does
provide a list of things to look into and make up your own mind about, but
I'm not going to take anything from it beyond that.  I'd like to see a
similar blurb from Agilent.  Between the two one might even be able to get
somewhere near the truth.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\04\03@080945 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:37:17 -0400, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

It's this sort of niggle that makes evaluating scopes so important to see how well you can live with
them.
Incidentally the Agilents zoom around the centre (or optionally one div from the left or right side
- I prefer the left option as most of the time you are interested in what happens after the
trigger).

2006\04\03@082823 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


{Quote hidden}

Out Aglient 54622D's work the same as the Tek, i.e. if the time between the trigger point and middle of the screen stays constant, so zomming in moves the trigger position to the left or right unless it's bang on zero to start with.  It is a bit annoying as it can take an impossibly long time to move the trigger back on the screen with the hoizontal postion control if you have zoomed in considerably. Normaly you have to zoom back out, zero the trigger and then zoom back in.  Apart from that one niggle they are superb scopes though, I would love to have one at home.

Regards

Mike

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2006\04\03@084402 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> I *LIKE* my TDS-210,
>
>I have one for my use at a customer, so have acquired
>some experience with it.  My biggest gripe with it is
>that the horizontal trigger position stays fixed in time
>relative to the center of the screen when you change time
>scales.  It does not stay fixed in screen position as
>you would want.  This may sound like a minor nit, but
>when you use the scope regularly it gets REALLY ANNOYING.

Ahh, you may not like the TDS3000 then, it does the same. cannot remember if
the TDS2000 does the same.

2006\04\03@084825 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:

>> I *LIKE* my TDS-210,
>
> I have one for my use at a customer, so have acquired some experience with
> it.  My biggest gripe with it is that the horizontal trigger position stays
> fixed in time relative to the center of the screen when you change time
> scales.  It does not stay fixed in screen position as you would want.  This
> may sound like a minor nit, but when you use the scope regularly it gets
> REALLY ANNOYING.  Especially when you expand the time scale the trigger
> position is suddenly gone because it got moved off screen.  If you're not
> used to this "feature", you start fumbling thru the menus trying to figure
> out how you accidentally made the trigger display go away.  

I think it depends a bit whether that's a feature or an annoyance. I think
the logic behind is that whatever you want to look at is at or around 0,
whereas the trigger is where it needs to be so that what you want to look
at is at or around 0. Following this line of thought, it makes sense to
keep the 0 point fixed on the screen, not the trigger point.

I took me a bit to get used to it, but it's at least not without logic and
makes some sense. Probably best would be to be able to move the 0 point
around on the screen, or to have a configuration item that allows to choose
whether the trigger point or the 0 point is fixed.


OTOH, when I use the zoom feature, all this doesn't really matter -- and
that's what I use mostly when I want to zoom in on a part of the screen.
Quite often it's neither the part around the trigger point nor the part
around the 0 point that I want to zoom in on, and the zoom feature
conveniently lets me preview and adjust in the coarse time base view what
part of the signal I'll be looking at after zooming in.

Gerhard

2006\04\03@085552 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face

>Out Aglient 54622D's work the same as the Tek, i.e. if the time between the trigger point and middle of the screen stays constant, so zomming in moves the trigger position to the left or right unless it's bang on zero to start with.  It is a bit annoying as it can take an impossibly long time to move the trigger back on the screen with the hoizontal postion control if you have zoomed in considerably. Normaly you have to zoom back out, zero the trigger and then zoom back in.  Apart from that one niggle they are superb scopes though, I would love to have one at home.

This is an inherent issue with deep-memory scopes, and there is a really nice way that it could be
overcome if they thought about it-  a single button to reset the delay to zero. A 'push-to-zero'
function on the  delay time knob would be absolutely perfect for this.
On my old 54645D, I actually made up a little external button-box to provide this function (and a
few others) by sending the appropriate RS232 command.  

2006\04\03@091015 by olin piclist

face picon face
Mike Harrison wrote:
> Incidentally the Agilents zoom around the centre (or optionally one div
> from the left or right side - I prefer the left option as most of the
> time you are interested in what happens after the trigger).

Exactly.  I usually have the trigger one division from the left edge.  After
all, an analog scope basically has the trigger permanently fixed at the left
edge.  Tek committed a major blunder by not at least making their digital
scope capable of acting like an old fashioned analog scope many people will
be used to.  It doesn't have to be the only mode, but it should be there.

I still don't understand why there has to be a mode to select where to zoom
the time scale around.  Why is it that nobody implements the obvious answer
of zooming around the current trigger position, at least as an optional
mode?  It might be useful to have other modes, but that's the one I would
use 99% of the time and would be fine with as the only mode in a low end
scope.  It seems they got fancy because they could but forgot to think about
it.  It feels like the features were implemented by a bunch of software
weenies that never used a scope.  In the end the optimized for the 1% case
at the expense of the 99% case.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\04\03@092145 by olin piclist

face picon face
Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
> I think it depends a bit whether that's a feature or an annoyance. I
> think the logic behind is that whatever you want to look at is at or
> around 0,

But that's the point.  This is rarely the case.  This may be some firmware
engineer's idea of how to use a scope, but it's not how scope are really
used most of the time.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\04\03@094002 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 09:11:19 -0400, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Certainly add it as an option, but the main benefit I find of deep-memory scopes is you don't need
to worry too much about getting the right trigger point - just grab a bunch of time and zoom in.

Therefore the point you want to zoom in on is almost always NOT the trigger point, so centering the
zoom on a fixed 'place on the screen' is generally more intuitive than centering on the trigger.

2006\04\03@114911 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Apr 3, 2006, at 4:37 AM, Olin Lathrop wrote:

> It also pisses me off because we all know it would have been
> a simple difference in the firmware to have done it right.  I
> understand things like bandwidth, sample depth, number of
> channels, etc cost money and that a low end scope will have
> less of them, but doing this right would have cost nothing extra.
>
I wonder if anyone will ever sell an open-source oscilloscope?
Don't like the way the SW works?  Fix it yourself, or download
the "unstable with enhanced extra knobs" version from your favorite
repository.  Since a lot of the high end scopes these days seem to
be essentially PC clones as the Display/UI, it's not unthinkable.

BillW

2006\04\03@125551 by kravnus wolf

picon face
Actually from the amount of members on the list and
the quality we have I am suprise we don't build one as
a team. Hint hint ;)

John

--- William Chops Westfield <westfwspamKILLspammac.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\04\03@125955 by Philip Pemberton

face picon face
In message <.....59b85d8f05969c249e60a120e09bab02KILLspamspam.....mac.com>>          William "Chops" Westfield <EraseMEwestfwspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmac.com> wrote:

> I wonder if anyone will ever sell an open-source oscilloscope?
> Don't like the way the SW works?  Fix it yourself, or download
> the "unstable with enhanced extra knobs" version from your favorite
> repository.  Since a lot of the high end scopes these days seem to
> be essentially PC clones as the Display/UI, it's not unthinkable.

I'd love to do something like that. I can do the software and probably the
digital hardware, but I have absolutely no idea how to go about designing
high-bandwidth low-noise amplifiers and such for the input circuitry.

A DSO isn't *that* complex - when you boil it down to its essentials, you've
got:
 - Front end amplifier (1 per channel)
 - A/D converter / acquisition circuitry (1 per channel)
 - Heavily filtered low-noise power supply
 - High speed RAM (SDRAM these days, though 10nS SRAM would be quite
   suitable if you could live with the relatively low data density)
 - Acquisition controller
 - Trigger circuitry (or just leave the ADC acquiring all the time and
   implement this in the acq controller)
 - CPU interface (PCI?)
 - CPU, display and UI (PC?)
 
It would certainly be fun to build something that gave Tek's low- to
mid-range scopes a run for their money :)

Anyone want to join me? :P

--
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2006\04\03@131853 by Hazelwood Lyle

flavicon
face


> -----Original Message-----
> From: kravnus wolf [@spam@kravnusKILLspamspamyahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 12:56 PM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [EE] Oscilloscopes...
>
>
> Actually from the amount of members on the list and
> the quality we have I am suprise we don't build one as
> a team. Hint hint ;)
>
> John
>

EXTREMELY unlikely.
We collectively can't even agree on a PIC programmer design.
The amount of expertise on this list is considerable, but
with that comes a.. "diversity of opinion"... Yeah, that's
the right word, I think. :-)

Lyle


2006\04\03@132740 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Apr 3, 2006, at 9:55 AM, kravnus wolf wrote:
>> [open source Osilloscope]

> Actually from the amount of members on the list and the quality
> we have I am suprise we don't build one as a team. Hint hint ;)

I don't WANT to build one.  That's *HARD*; high precision analog
design is SCARY.  What I want is to be able to take a commercially
purchased unit and just TWEAK the software a little bit so that it
ends up more like the way I want it to be...

BillW

2006\04\03@134340 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 17:58:28 +0100, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

It gets more interesting when you want a more responsive acquisition-to-display interface though
(Tek DPO etc.) Also, SDRAM only gives decent performance in bursts, so a SRAM buffer would also be
necessary. Both of these could be done in a not-too expensive FPGA.

This would be a good base to start with perhaps :
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/moelbryn/raggedstone1.html

2006\04\03@135521 by Tomas Larsson

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

Well Bitscope is avaible with both commercial and free open source software,
Cost from some $300 or so.

With best regards

Tomas Larsson
Sweden
http://www.naks.mine.nu for downloads etc.
ftp://ktl.mine.nu for uploads. Or use the free http://www.yousendit.com service.

Verus Amicus Est Tamquam Alter Idem  


2006\04\03@141619 by Robert Rolf

picon face
One of the newer Tek scopes uses JAVA.  (TDS 700)

http://www.tektronix.com/Measurement/cgi-bin/framed.pl?Document=/Measurement/Products/press/javascope/eng/index.html&FrameSet=oscilloscopes

Tektronix Embraces JavaTM Technology

"BEAVERTON, OREGON (March 24, 1998) -- Meeting market demand for
swift access to application-specific measurement capabilities,
Tektronix, Inc. (NYSE: TEK) today introduced the first-ever test
and measurement instrument implementation of JavaTM technology.
This technology, which is to be included by Tektronix with its
future high-end oscilloscopes, includes technology licensed by
Sun Microsystems, Inc. "


So the trick would be decompiling an 'update' to see how things
tick.

R

William Chops Westfield wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\04\03@142546 by Robert Rolf

picon face


William Chops Westfield wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Like the many hacks based on the Linksys WRT54G routers, which are
essentially running a linux kernal.

R


2006\04\03@152636 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Apr 3, 2006, at 11:25 AM, Robert Rolf wrote:

>> I don't WANT to build one.

> Like the many hacks based on the Linksys WRT54G routers, which are
> essentially running a linux kernal.
>
Yes, exactly!  Although in that case I think only enough of the
official software is "open source" that people have been able
to replace it wholesale;  A sort of "we didn't really mean for
this to be open source but we got caught by the GPL.  Oops."
SW that was intended to be open source from the start would be
better.  The situation with Tivo is probably a better example.

Although - I think the official theory is that all other WRT54G
software is a "support nightmare."  (note "theory" - I'm not sure
that this is true.)  Newer versions of the box labeled WRT54G
have different HW, the official software is no longer linux based,
and the third-party images don't run.  For which we were duly dinged
by the open source community.  (though I can see both sides of THAT.)

BillW

2006\04\03@163744 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
Philip Pemberton Sent: 2006 Apr 03, Mon 09:58
> Anyone want to join me? :P


I'm still waiting to sell a kit based on your existing SX Logic Analyzer...

---
James.



2006\04\03@163931 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
> EXTREMELY unlikely.
> We collectively can't even agree on a PIC programmer design.
> The amount of expertise on this list is considerable, but
> with that comes a.. "diversity of opinion"... Yeah, that's
> the right word, I think. :-)

Before anyone decides to try doing another "group project" PLEASE go to the
archive and read the threads on the last group design that was attempted on
the piclist. Search for CUMP or... What was the other one called? The
development kit thing?

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
RemoveMEjamesnewtonspamTakeThisOuTpiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


2006\04\03@165332 by Mark Rages

face picon face
On 4/3/06, William Chops Westfield <westfwEraseMEspam.....mac.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

They still sell the Linux-combatible version as "WRT54GL".  So I guess
they've learned quickly.  Open firmware has made the WRT54G the most
desirable consumer wireless router out there.  It's the only one with
a model number I've memorized, and with fan sites on the Internet.

Someday I'm going to add wheels to one and make a Linux-powered robot.

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
--
You think that it is a secret, but it never has been one.
 - fortune cookie

2006\04\03@171614 by Randy Glenn

picon face
You mean the Electronics Bench in a Box?

http://techref.massmind.org/techref/idea/ebb.htm

On 4/3/06, James Newton, Host <EraseMEjamesnewtonspampiclist.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\04\03@214905 by kravnus wolf

picon face
I know what you mean. A PC. Don't like the OS, change
it. I like TI calc for it's programming capabilities
but the OS is off limits.... Maybe someone Just like
my PalmIII.

Such fine hardware without being able to do anything.

John

--- William Chops Westfield <RemoveMEwestfwspam_OUTspamKILLspammac.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\04\03@234415 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On Apr 3, 2006, at 6:49 PM, kravnus wolf wrote:

> Just like my PalmIII.

Ohh.  A digiscope-type thing that plugged into a palmtop
for it's UI would be pretty neat!

BillW

2006\04\04@010619 by Mike Hord

picon face
> >This may sound like a minor nit, but
> >when you use the scope regularly it gets REALLY ANNOYING.
>
> Ahh, you may not like the TDS3000 then, it does the same. cannot remember if
> the TDS2000 does the same.

It does, but IIRC the 2000 has something the 3000 and the 200 series don't:
a "zero horizontal" button.  I just got a 3000 on my desk at work today (first
day on the job; heck of a way to make a first impression!), and that was a
flaw I noticed straight away.

Mike H.

2006\04\04@011100 by kravnus wolf
picon face
But the update through RS232 is not enough. But still
useful for low freq. sounds like a good idea. Is there
any place that sell this kind of portable cable?

John

--- William Chops Westfield <RemoveMEwestfwTakeThisOuTspamspammac.com> wrote:

> On Apr 3, 2006, at 6:49 PM, kravnus wolf wrote:
>
> > Just like my PalmIII.
>
> Ohh.  A digiscope-type thing that plugged into a
> palmtop
> for it's UI would be pretty neat!
>
> BillW
> --

2006\04\04@014947 by Nate Duehr

face
flavicon
face
William Chops Westfield wrote:

> Although - I think the official theory is that all other WRT54G
> software is a "support nightmare."  (note "theory" - I'm not sure
> that this is true.)  Newer versions of the box labeled WRT54G
> have different HW, the official software is no longer linux based,
> and the third-party images don't run.  For which we were duly dinged
> by the open source community.  (though I can see both sides of THAT.)

Linksys switched to the VxWorks RTOS on the later models of the WRT54G
series routers, but understood that people who WANT to hack their
routers wanted to Linux version, so they released the WRT54GL -- "L" for
Linux.

Nate

2006\04\04@075201 by Philip Pemberton

face picon face
In message <EraseME20060404051059.36773.qmailspamspamspamBeGoneweb34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com>>          kravnus wolf <RemoveMEkravnusKILLspamspamyahoo.com> wrote:

> But the update through RS232 is not enough. But still
> useful for low freq. sounds like a good idea. Is there
> any place that sell this kind of portable cable?

There used to be places that sold the Palm HotSync connectors, but I haven't
seen any for a long while. I wanted a bare connector for my Palm VIIx so I
could build up a few cables, but it looks like they're unobtainium now.

--
Phil.                         | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G ViewFinder
philpemSTOPspamspamspam_OUTdsl.pipex.com         | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 512M+100G
http://www.philpem.me.uk/     | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 256M+40G

2006\04\04@081020 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
kravnus wolf wrote:

>> Ohh.  A digiscope-type thing that plugged into a palmtop for it's UI
>> would be pretty neat!

> But the update through RS232 is not enough.

Are you sure? Depends on where you put the transition from input data to
screen data. Say 115k2 b/s and 50 Hz screen refresh; that gives around 2k
bits per refresh. Could be enough with a compression algorithm.

Gerhard

2006\04\04@083406 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Apr 4, 2006, at 4:50 AM, Philip Pemberton wrote:

>> Is there any place that sell this kind of portable cable?
>
> There used to be places that sold the Palm HotSync connectors,
> but I haven't seen any for a long while. I wanted a bare connector
> for my Palm VIIx so I could build up a few cables, but it looks
> like they're unobtainium now.
>
PDA cables are distressingly one-of-a-kind, but I bought several
of these to go with my old Palm IIIs:
http://www.surpluscomputers.com/store/main.aspx?
p=ItemDetail&item=ACC10692

There seems to be no end of add-on vendors that got "burnt" by
the high turnover rate of the physical connectors (and stylus
shape) of PDAs a couple of years back (things seem more settled
now, I guess.)  There are several places selling things like
keypads for the Palm m100; I've seen prices down around $1.99:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=TKB150P&cat=PDA

BillW

2006\04\04@084233 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Apr 4, 2006, at 5:09 AM, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:

>> But the update through RS232 is not enough.
>

I figure a screen update is about 160 bytes (cause the screen
is typically 160x160 pixles, so a 115200bps link would give you
better than 50Hz update, assuming the screen can even go that fast,
even without compression...

BillW

2006\04\04@090818 by William Couture

face picon face
On 4/4/06, William Chops Westfield <spamBeGonewestfwSTOPspamspamEraseMEmac.com> wrote:
>
> On Apr 4, 2006, at 5:09 AM, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
>
> >> But the update through RS232 is not enough.
> >
>
> I figure a screen update is about 160 bytes (cause the screen
> is typically 160x160 pixles, so a 115200bps link would give you
> better than 50Hz update, assuming the screen can even go that fast,
> even without compression...

160 pixels * 160 pixels = 25600 pixels

For a monochrome screen, 1 pixel == 1 bit

25600 / 8 = 3200 bytes per screen

at 10 bits per byte RS232,  32000 bits per screen
(Yes, this is more than the original resolution)

at 115200 baud, 115200 / 32000 = 3.6Hz update

If the pixels are not monochrome, multiply bits by color
depth in pixels, and divide update by color depth in
pixels.

Bill

--
Psst...  Hey, you... Buddy...  Want a kitten?  straycatblues.petfinder.org

2006\04\04@091624 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


{Quote hidden}

But it's an oscilloscope, you don't want to display pictures so why not just send the cordinates of the data points?  For a 160x160 screen that's a maximum of 160 bytes, less if you want to try and use the redundant bits.

Regards

Mike

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2006\04\04@092844 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> There are several places selling things like
> keypads for the Palm m100; I've seen prices down around $1.99:
> http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=TKB150P&cat=PDA

I see $4.99, or did I miss something?

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
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2006\04\04@094930 by Robert Rolf

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Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:
{Quote hidden}

You don't even need full coordinates. Just the sample values. Let the Palm(R) display
software decide where to place them (scroll vs sweep vs average vs peak/envelope).
Seems to me it would be dead easy to use a PIC with 8 bit A/D (since screen
can't show more than 160 steps) to make this interface. Could do multi channel
as well.

R


2006\04\04@113216 by William Chops Westfield

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On Apr 4, 2006, at 6:28 AM, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

>> I've seen prices down around $1.99:
>> http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=TKB150P&cat=PDA
>
> I see $4.99, or did I miss something?
>
It's one of the things that periodically goes "on sale", but
not at the moment...

BillW

2006\04\04@114033 by Randy Glenn

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On 4/4/06, William Couture <TakeThisOuTbcoutureKILLspamspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

That's assuming that you want to be able to display any old bitmap you
want. If just a line is sufficient, you only need to send one value -
the Y coordinate - for each column of pixels. Thus, 160 bytes / frame.

--
-Randy Glenn
Computer Eng. and Mgt. Year IV, McMaster University
Regional Student Representative, IEEE Canada

randy.glenn-at-gmail.com - glennrb-at-mcmaster.ca
randy.glenn-at-computer.org - randy_glenn-at-ieee.org
http://www.randyglenn.ca

2006\04\04@171731 by Peter

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On Mon, 3 Apr 2006, William Chops Westfield wrote:

> I don't WANT to build one.  That's *HARD*; high precision analog
> design is SCARY.  What I want is to be able to take a commercially
> purchased unit and just TWEAK the software a little bit so that it
> ends up more like the way I want it to be...

How high are the specs that you need ? For lower end there are several
solutions with open source front ends. For example:

http://www.syscompdesign.com/

only 2MHz (20MHz sampling) and not so cheap. There are a few others like
this.

Peter

2006\04\04@171804 by Mike Hord

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> > Just like my PalmIII.
>
> Ohh.  A digiscope-type thing that plugged into a palmtop
> for it's UI would be pretty neat!

Funny you mention that.  Xilinx has an Appnote on their
website about making a portable o-scope with an older
Handspring Visor using the Insight Springboard Dev Kit.
If you can find the dev kit, the Visors are pretty cheap now.

I'm on the lookout for one, now that I know what I can do
with it...I have the Visor, just need the dev kit.

Mike H.

2006\04\04@175416 by Philip Pemberton

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In message <RemoveME88eca9220604041418h57c691f8s3c58ff64594a4fd8spamspamBeGonemail.gmail.com>>          "Mike Hord" <spamBeGonemike.hord@spam@spamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:

> Funny you mention that.  Xilinx has an Appnote on their
> website about making a portable o-scope with an older
> Handspring Visor using the Insight Springboard Dev Kit.

Wasn't it a logic analyser, not an oscilloscope?
I've just been reading through the appnote - it looks pretty nifty. Certainly
a few neat ideas worth borrowing.

> If you can find the dev kit, the Visors are pretty cheap now.
>
> I'm on the lookout for one, now that I know what I can do
> with it...I have the Visor, just need the dev kit.

I've got a Palm VIIx here, and I'm looking for a good Palm OS programming
tutorial. I've got PODS and Cygwin installed, it's just a case of figuring
out how to actually write some software with it :)

Thanks.
--
Phil.                         | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G ViewFinder
TakeThisOuTphilpemspamspamdsl.pipex.com         | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 512M+100G
http://www.philpem.me.uk/     | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 256M+40G

2006\04\04@220407 by kravnus wolf

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you can just send the sampled data to the palm and get
the palm to draw the sinwave there. less bandwidth BUT
more processor hungry. Not sure whether the Palm can
handle it that well.

john

--- Michael Rigby-Jones
<Michael.Rigby-JonesEraseMEspambookham.com> wrote:

>
>
> >{Original Message removed}

2006\04\04@221405 by Dave King

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face
That is going to vary quite a bit by model. I have a
Zire 31 and watch colour movies at just under 30fps.
(29.97 video rate). The 31 has a 160x160 display and
16mb of ram and you can stick up to a 1gb sdram card
in it for storage. The USB/Serial speed is up to 154K
and the cpu is 400mhz.

Dave

{Quote hidden}

> > >{Original Message removed}

2006\04\05@000242 by William Chops Westfield

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On Apr 4, 2006, at 7:04 PM, kravnus wolf wrote:

> you can just send the sampled data to the palm and get
> the palm to draw the sinwave there. less bandwidth BUT
> more processor hungry.

No, no!  The whole point is that the "scope" section has to
operate at quite HIGH bandwidth.  Tens of thousands, preferably
millions of samples per second, and as many bits as your A-D
can sample.  The display only has to be updating at its maximum
display resolution, with an update time dependent on display and
HUMAN reaction times, which are much slower than the scope "needs"
to deal with...

BillW

2006\04\05@053650 by Alan B. Pearce

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>I've got a Palm VIIx here, and I'm looking for a good
>Palm OS programming tutorial. I've got PODS and Cygwin
>installed, it's just a case of figuring
>out how to actually write some software with it :)

Have a look at these.
www.massena.com/darrin/pilot/resources.htm
http://www.massena.com/darrin/pilot/
http://www.massena.com/darrin/pilot/tanda.htm
http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/palm/
http://www.axios.de/palm/

2006\04\06@112553 by Mike Hord

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Yes and no.  Here are three links of pertinence:

direct.xilinx.com/bvdocs/appnotes/xapp146.pdf
8 channel digital voltmeter.

direct.xilinx.com/bvdocs/appnotes/xapp149.pdf
Oscilloscope.

direct.xilinx.com/bvdocs/appnotes/xapp368.pdf
Logic analyzer.

They also have a few other neat projects.  If I could only
find the dev kit!

Mike H.

On 4/4/06, Philip Pemberton <@spam@philpemRemoveMEspamEraseMEdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

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