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'[EE] Motorized potentiometers'
2007\03\01@134521 by Edson Brusque

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Hello,

    I'm needing to make some tests with motorized potentiometes. I've
made some research but haven't found much.

    Someone have experiences with it and/or know where can I find
motorized pots?

    Best regards,

    Brusque
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Edson Brusque                     C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda
Research and Development                  Joinville  -  SC  -  Brazil
http://www.ryan.com.br/netiqueta.htm             http://www.citronics.com.br
---------------------------------------------------------------------

2007\03\01@140426 by Denny Esterline

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> Hello,
>
>      I'm needing to make some tests with motorized potentiometes. I've
> made some research but haven't found much.
>
>      Someone have experiences with it and/or know where can I find
> motorized pots?
>
>      Best regards,
>
>      Brusque
> --

www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G9962

2007\03\01@141614 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
>      Someone have experiences with it and/or know where can I find
> motorized pots?

http://www.voti.nl/shop/p/R-MOT-POT.html

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2007\03\01@142617 by Marcel duchamp

picon face
Edson Brusque wrote:
> Hello,
>
>      I'm needing to make some tests with motorized potentiometes. I've
> made some research but haven't found much.
>
>      Someone have experiences with it and/or know where can I find
> motorized pots?
>
>      Best regards,
>
>      Brusque
I just bought one of these:

Mouser Part #:          316-1020F-10K
Manufacturer Part #:        RC102F-20F-B10K
Manufacturer:        Alpha (Taiwan)
Description:        Dual Ganged Motor Driven Potentiometers Linear 10K

The price is US$9.98 in singles.

It is definitely NOT a heavy duty component.  I think they are intended
as volume controls in stereo amps/receivers that also have a remote
control.  The user can twist the knob or operate it from the remote and
the motor runs the pot up or down.  I think for the most part, they
operate at fairly low duty cycle.

I'm going to test mine in a more dynamic environment and see how long it
lasts.  I made a large (12 inch diameter) analog meter out of it.  A
PIC16F88 compares the feedback pot on the motor to a thermocouple signal
and provides a nice large temperature gauge.

2007\03\01@144731 by David VanHorn

picon face
>     Someone have experiences with it and/or know where can I find
> motorized pots?


The surplus places carry them, used in "high end" stereo stuff.

2007\03\01@161013 by engineer

face picon face
Unless this is for replacement purposes,

This function has been replaced by digital potentiometers. Look at the  
Microchip
Website for how to use these.

--Bob


Quoting Edson Brusque <spam_OUTbrusque.listasTakeThisOuTspamcitronics.com.br>:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\03\01@162341 by Marcel duchamp

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engineer@neomailbox.com wrote:
> Unless this is for replacement purposes,
>
> This function has been replaced by digital potentiometers. Look at the  
> Microchip
> Website for how to use these.
>
> --Bob
>

How do you make a mechanical servo with digital pots?

2007\03\01@164417 by David VanHorn

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>
>
>
> How do you make a mechanical servo with digital pots?


Krazy glue and a dremel tool?  :)

2007\03\01@203628 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Marcel duchamp wrote:
> .....engineerKILLspamspam@spam@neomailbox.com wrote:
>  
>> Unless this is for replacement purposes,
>>
>> This function has been replaced by digital potentiometers. Look at the  
>> Microchip
>> Website for how to use these.
>>
>> --Bob
>>
>>    
>
> How do you make a mechanical servo with digital pots?
>
>  
These motors  were added in order to allow simple changing of a
potentiometer setting, such as
remote volume control, fading, balance, tone, etc. These can now be done
easily by a small uP and
a digital potentiometer.

If you need a mechanical control, add a quad tach with a knob on it.
That's what they do on auto radios.
make the servo with that, and it will be much sturdier.

--Bob

2007\03\01@213629 by Bob Blick

face picon face
Marcel duchamp wrote:
> I'm going to test mine in a more dynamic environment and see how long it
> lasts.  I made a large (12 inch diameter) analog meter out of it.  A
> PIC16F88 compares the feedback pot on the motor to a thermocouple signal
> and provides a nice large temperature gauge.

Potentiometers can last a long time under the right conditions. You
should lubricate it. This thermometer I designed uses a 1/4 scale hobby
servo geared up using toothed belt and sprocket so it can swing 270
degrees. The first servo lasted 2 years, the second one has been in
about four years. Here's a look at it:

http://bobblick.com/wnw_thermo.jpg

Cheerful regards,

Bob


2007\03\01@223244 by Marcel Duchamp

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Bob Blick wrote:
> Marcel duchamp wrote:
>> I'm going to test mine in a more dynamic environment and see how long it
>> lasts.  I made a large (12 inch diameter) analog meter out of it.  A
>> PIC16F88 compares the feedback pot on the motor to a thermocouple signal
>> and provides a nice large temperature gauge.
>
> Potentiometers can last a long time under the right conditions. You
> should lubricate it. This thermometer I designed uses a 1/4 scale hobby
> servo geared up using toothed belt and sprocket so it can swing 270
> degrees. The first servo lasted 2 years, the second one has been in
> about four years. Here's a look at it:
>
> http://bobblick.com/wnw_thermo.jpg
>
> Cheerful regards,
>
> Bob

That's pretty cool Bob! Is it in Mendocino?

Hobby servos was a fallback plan; which type did you use?  The motor-pot
setup might last a long time; I don't know yet.  I just imagined that it
might wear out the pot element sawing back and forth... depends on the
signal conditions and so on of course.  Monitoring environmental ambient
conditions could be heavily filtered so you can avoid jitter.  I can
probably add some hysteresis to mine - it's going to be monitoring kilns
in ceramic studios and maybe hot glass shops.

2007\03\01@231321 by Bob Blick

face picon face
Marcel Duchamp wrote:

>> degrees. The first servo lasted 2 years, the second one has been in
>> about four years. Here's a look at it:
>> http://bobblick.com/wnw_thermo.jpg
>
> That's pretty cool Bob! Is it in Mendocino?
Ft. Bragg, about 10 miles North. I wasn't the one who built it, I just
designed the guts.

> Hobby servos was a fallback plan; which type did you use?  The motor-pot
> setup might last a long time; I don't know yet.  I just imagined that it
> might wear out the pot element sawing back and forth... depends on the
> signal conditions and so on of course.  Monitoring environmental ambient
> conditions could be heavily filtered so you can avoid jitter.  I can
> probably add some hysteresis to mine - it's going to be monitoring kilns
> in ceramic studios and maybe hot glass shops.

It was a Hitec brand servo.

Another way to make big meters is to put a hand on a stepper motor. But
since you can't tell where the hand is, you can use a stop and run it up
against it, ala Apple ][ disk drive, and then move it where it's
supposed to be. With steppers there's nothing to wear out but the
resolution is fixed.

I made a clock with a stepper motor. The minutes hand is direct and the
hours is after a 12:1 reduction. Every 18 seconds the stepper
half-steps. It's funny watching it twitch. It was a fun project because
I got to learn about commercial gears and pitch diameter while building
the gearbox. I didn't make the face or numerals but I built the rest. I
have two reed switches inside it, one for fast forward and one for fast
reverse. There's a long stick with a magnet on the end you hold near it
when you need to set the time.  Here's a picture of it:
http://bobblick.com/tenth_st_clock.jpg

Cheerful regards,

Bob


2007\03\01@235729 by David VanHorn

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> http://bobblick.com/tenth_st_clock.jpg


Where do you find such projects/clients?   I'd love to do stuff like that.

2007\03\02@000339 by Rich

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They are easy to construct, Wouter.  I have done it many time.  I use nylon
gears (or some polymer) and use a very high gear ratio.  I doubt that you
will need more than just a pair of gears because the pot is not much of a
mechanical load and the DC to the motor can be set to a slower rotation.
However, if this is for a production run you may not want to "do it
yourself."  They can be a bit expensive.

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/MPOT-20K/470010/DUAL_20K_LINEAR_TAPER_MOTORIZED_POT_.htmlhttp://www.precisionsales.com/  A good source.http://www.onlinecontrols.com/mpots.htm{Original Message removed}

2007\03\02@004635 by Jinx

face picon face


> > http://bobblick.com/tenth_st_clock.jpg
>
> Where do you find such projects/clients?   I'd love to do stuff
> like that.

Can't speak for Bob, but I consult for the NZ Inventor's Trust, which
introduces me to all kinds of people with dreams (some of which I can
make come true - three on the bench at the moment, and I'll be a part
of each company) and make myself known to local businesses like watch
repairers/makers and sign companies who get enquiries that are in their
line of  work but which they don't have the expertise to do. It suits my
personality. I am in no way a 9-5er. So despite my skills, I'm virtually
unemployable in a traditional workplace. I don't therefore have that
security but I have a huge amount of fun and creative stimulation

2007\03\02@010536 by Bob Blick

face picon face
David VanHorn wrote:
>> http://bobblick.com/tenth_st_clock.jpg
>
> Where do you find such projects/clients?   I'd love to do stuff like that.

Just move to California! If all you require is love, you can get all the
work you want :)

I like doing public works. And the clock was a way of bonding with some
of the other tenants at my workplace. One of them made the numerals,
another did the faux marble finish on the face.

Cheerful regards,

Bob

2007\03\02@024514 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Mar 1, 2007, at 10:05 PM, Bob Blick wrote:

>> Where do you find such projects/clients?   I'd love to do
>> stuff like that.
>
> Just move to California! If all you require is love, you can get
> all the work you want :)

Monetary compensation inversely proportional to the "cool" factor, eh?

Seriously, there seems to be a growing "artistic" community interested
in incorporating technology in art, either explicitly or behind the
scenes.  We've seen some of these artists here on PICList; those are
the ones with clues.  The general level of technical knowledge in
the word when it comes to really basic electronics and low-level
(microcontroller) programming is ... abysmal (like, you'd think
nearly anyone could figure out how to connect an LED to a battery,
given the information that already exists on the net.  Hah!)

Alas, these are people who can't afford to pay the rates that
people who know a lot about electronics and low level programming
are used to getting, especially as "consultants."  There's probably
a HUGE market for people with rather basic PIC hobbyist backgrounds
to do "consultant" things at about minimum wage.  Or less...

BillW

2007\03\02@030733 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> They are easy to construct, Wouter.

Mistaken identity again. I was not the OP, I responded to him.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2007\03\02@165259 by Peter Todd

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On Thu, Mar 01, 2007 at 11:45:11PM -0800, William Chops Westfield wrote:
>
> On Mar 1, 2007, at 10:05 PM, Bob Blick wrote:
>
> >> Where do you find such projects/clients?   I'd love to do
> >> stuff like that.
> >
> > Just move to California! If all you require is love, you can get
> > all the work you want :)
>
> Monetary compensation inversely proportional to the "cool" factor, eh?
>
> Seriously, there seems to be a growing "artistic" community interested
> in incorporating technology in art, either explicitly or behind the
> scenes.  We've seen some of these artists here on PICList; those are
> the ones with clues.  The general level of technical knowledge in
> the word when it comes to really basic electronics and low-level
> (microcontroller) programming is ... abysmal (like, you'd think
> nearly anyone could figure out how to connect an LED to a battery,
> given the information that already exists on the net.  Hah!)

My job in the electronics lab at my university basically conists of me
explaining ohms law for people who need to hook up LED's to batteries.
Over, and over again...

You know what's the really scary bit though? The teachers can't help
them, because they don't understand ohms law...

Of course it's the same deal with *any* math. I hardly run into anyone
who can model something with math as simple as basic algebra, hell,
most people can't calculate interest.

> Alas, these are people who can't afford to pay the rates that
> people who know a lot about electronics and low level programming
> are used to getting, especially as "consultants."  There's probably
> a HUGE market for people with rather basic PIC hobbyist backgrounds
> to do "consultant" things at about minimum wage.  Or less...

I've been rather surprised at how many people can, and do, pay the
$12/hour I charge to do electronics stuff for students.

--
http://www.petertodd.ca

2007\03\06@220401 by Jinx

face picon face

> > This function has been replaced by digital potentiometers
>
> How do you make a mechanical servo with digital pots?

I've been daydreaming about this recently

A project involves setting the PIC to output PWM with variable
duty cycle, frequency, voltage, burst length and inter-burst interval.
It's akin to a TENS unit

One feature I really would have liked to add was the positions of
the pots stored in presets, but after looking into the cost/availability
of motorised ones, decided to try this way. Use an encoder (for
example magnetic - gear wheel and Hall Effect sensor - or optical)
to change a digital pot and an LED/LCD display showing the value
for each "pot". The PIC monitors the encoders and drives the digits.
It might be that each "pot" is self-sufficient, having a cheap PIC to
do all the functions of converting and displaying the analogue value,
then sending that to the PWM-ing PIC. Although the knobs won't
move when a preset is recalled, the display and output will be OK,
which is the main thing

2007\03\06@222328 by David VanHorn

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> A project involves setting the PIC to output PWM with variable
> duty cycle, frequency, voltage, burst length and inter-burst interval.
> It's akin to a TENS unit


Digikey carries motorized sliders like they use in audio panels.

Alternatively, you can do Xicor nonvolatile Epots, and read the positions
back on boot.

2007\03\06@225946 by Jinx

face picon face

> Digikey carries motorized sliders like they use in audio panels.

Yes, I've thought of those. Digikey PNC100SY-ND is US$40
(NZ$55) at 50+, and that pretty well cripples the project. I like
them (more visual than a rotary), but way too dear

Motorised pots used to be available here quite cheaply, I still
have a couple from that time, but they have gotten expensive
and rare

I might make enquiries at Panasonic, see if I can do a deal. I'm
not above hacking old mice for encoders, plenty of those around,
but convenience counts for something when you've got a few to do

2007\03\06@230125 by Jinx

face picon face

> Alternatively, you can do Xicor nonvolatile Epots, and read the
> positions back on boot

Could do, although not necessary if a preset has to be selected
before the unit outputs any voltage


2007\03\06@231739 by David VanHorn

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On 3/6/07, Jinx <joecolquittspamKILLspamclear.net.nz> wrote:
>
>
> > Alternatively, you can do Xicor nonvolatile Epots, and read the
> > positions back on boot
>
> Could do, although not necessary if a preset has to be selected
> before the unit outputs any voltage


I used them once to replace a pot in a phone line powered project.
The real pot was causing circuit failures through ESD.  I was able to source
the epot and two nice buttons from E-Switch at less than the cost of the pot
we were using, total of about $0.79

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