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'[EE] Maxim IC frustration - hard to find component'
2006\08\06@205543 by Anon

picon face
 I don't know why Maxim makes it so difficult for small companies to design with their components.
 I am developing a new consumer electronics product. Unfortunately, I planned to use 4 Maxim chips that are hard to find in small quantities (1-40). Standard distributors like Arrow, Mouser and Digikey don't cary them. These components are excellent matches for my design needs. Maxim offers some of their ICs for purchasing on their website, but not the ones listed below. Perhaps someone can recommend a broker or exchange website where rare Maxim components can be purchased at reasonable prices. I would love to find alternatives to these components if someone can offer some advice. National, Linear and Analog devices simply cant match the selection, sophistication and price of switching regulators and battery charging ICs. Please feel free to recommend other IC manuafacturers that specialize in these types of components.
 
 DS2745 Low Cost I2C Battery Monitor
 (chosen for its ability to cumulatively measure voltage & current to estimate battery life, + its low cost, $1@1K)
 www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/4994
 
 MAX1555 Dual-Input, USB/AC Adapter, 1-Cell Li+ Battery Chargers
 (chosen for its ability to intelligently charge a 1-cell lithium from a wall adapter or USB port 5v rail, low cost .85@1K)
 www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/4002
 
 MAX1522 Simple SOT23 Boost Controllers
 (chosen for its high frequency operation - small inductor, only a few external components, low cost $1.07@1K)
 
 MAX1724 1.5µA IQ, Step-Up DC-DC Converters in Thin SOT23-5
 (chosen for its ultra low quiescent current, only needs a 10uh inductor, has built in FET, very few external components, low cost $1.45 @ 1K)
 http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/3024

               
---------------------------------
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2006\08\06@214315 by PicDude

flavicon
face
I recently had a bad support experience with Maxim/Dallas -- called 4 times
for support for the DS2450 over a couple-week period, and always got the
voicemail of someone who is apparently the only support rep for this.  After
4 vmails I never received a response, so last week I raised hell around their
company.  Even though they found me a field rep in NC who could answer the
Q's, and a manager assured me it would not happen again, still decided after
that it was last straw in the chain of other Dallas/Maxim negatives -- high
cost and constantly short supply (enough to discourage many CEM's), and have
finally made the decision to ditch them altogether.

I have determined at this point that I can reproduce equivalent
functionalities of the DS2450, DS18B20, and others using a PIC.  It will take
me some weekends of development/coding, but I feel it will be best in the
long run and should eventually recover the costs.  I do like the 1-wire
concept, but now need to figure out if changing the specifics of the protocol
and associated timing will still violate their IP.

Cheers,
-Neil.



On Sunday 06 August 2006 19:55, Anon wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\08\06@224025 by Gus S Calabrese

face picon face
Have you checked out the 1-wire mailing list ?
http://www.techsay.com/default.php?
page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
Owfs-developers mailing list
spam_OUTOwfs-developersTakeThisOuTspamlists.sourceforge.net
lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/owfs-developers
Gus

On 2006-Aug 06, at 20:43hrs PM, PicDude wrote:

I recently had a bad support experience with Maxim/Dallas -- called 4  
times
for support for the DS2450 over a couple-week period, and always got the
voicemail of someone who is apparently the only support rep for  
this.  After
4 vmails I never received a response, so last week I raised hell  
around their
company.  Even though they found me a field rep in NC who could  
answer the
Q's, and a manager assured me it would not happen again, still  
decided after
that it was last straw in the chain of other Dallas/Maxim negatives  
-- high
cost and constantly short supply (enough to discourage many CEM's),  
and have
finally made the decision to ditch them altogether.

I have determined at this point that I can reproduce equivalent
functionalities of the DS2450, DS18B20, and others using a PIC.  It  
will take
me some weekends of development/coding, but I feel it will be best in  
the
long run and should eventually recover the costs.  I do like the 1-wire
concept, but now need to figure out if changing the specifics of the  
protocol
and associated timing will still violate their IP.

Cheers,
-Neil.



On Sunday 06 August 2006 19:55, Anon wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\08\06@224029 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Anon wrote:
>   I don't know why Maxim makes it so difficult for small companies to design with their components.
>   I am developing a new consumer electronics product. Unfortunately, I planned to use 4 Maxim chips that are hard to find in small quantities (1-40). Standard distributors like Arrow, Mouser and Digikey don't cary them. These components are excellent matches for my design needs. Maxim offers some of their ICs for purchasing on their website, but not the ones listed below. Perhaps someone can recommend a broker or exchange website where rare Maxim components can be purchased at reasonable prices. I would love to find alternatives to these components if someone can offer some advice. National, Linear and Analog devices simply cant match the selection, sophistication and price of switching regulators and battery charging ICs. Please feel free to recommend other IC manuafacturers that specialize in these types of components.
>    
>   DS2745 Low Cost I2C Battery Monitor
>   (chosen for its ability to cumulatively measure voltage & current to estimate battery life, + its low cost, $1@1K)
>   www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/4994
>  
TI makes one.
>    
>   MAX1555 Dual-Input, USB/AC Adapter, 1-Cell Li+ Battery Chargers
>   (chosen for its ability to intelligently charge a 1-cell lithium from a wall adapter or USB port 5v rail, low cost .85@1K)
>   www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/4002
>  
LT makes several.
>    
>   MAX1522 Simple SOT23 Boost Controllers
>   (chosen for its high frequency operation - small inductor, only a few external components, low cost $1.07@1K)
>  
everybody has these.
>    
>   MAX1724 1.5µA IQ, Step-Up DC-DC Converters in Thin SOT23-5
>   (chosen for its ultra low quiescent current, only needs a 10uh inductor, has built in FET, very few external components, low cost $1.45 @ 1K)
>   www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/3024
>  
everybody has these, too.

- - -

But notice that MAXIM doesn't have any. 'nuff said?
>                  
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
>  

2006\08\07@070528 by olin piclist

face picon face
Anon wrote:
> I don't know why Maxim makes it so difficult for small companies to
> design with their components.

Because they don't care.

> I am developing a new consumer electronics product. Unfortunately,
> I planned to use 4 Maxim chips that are hard to find in small
> quantities (1-40).

With the regular mention of Maxim small order problems here and elsewhere,
it's totally amazing to me that anyone would still do this.  This is just
plain bad design.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\08\07@094048 by Timothy Weber

face picon face
PicDude wrote:
> I have determined at this point that I can reproduce equivalent
> functionalities of the DS2450, DS18B20, and others using a PIC.

I've always liked the DS18B20 for one-off projects, but I'm also looking
to move to something with a reliable source.  (Mouser actually lists
these as "Obsolete.")

One key feature for me is that the TO-92 form factor makes it easy to
throw a 2- or 3-wire cable on it and use it directly as a remote probe.
 The other is that you don't have to calibrate it per-unit or per-batch
(unlike thermistors, yes? haven't used them myself).

The new Microchip MCP970x family has both these features (though it's
not as accurate in the TO-92 package).  I've got a few samples coming;
has anyone else tried them yet?

And, are there any other alternatives that come to mind?
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2006\08\07@104227 by Mauricio Jancic

flavicon
face
Does anyone knows a DS1302 compatible device? I need to have basically the
same features, trikle charger, RTC, and it can be SPI or I2C.

Regards,

PS: I mean a non-maxim alternative...

Mauricio

2006\08\07@115459 by PicDude

flavicon
face
On Monday 07 August 2006 08:40, Timothy Weber wrote:
> PicDude wrote:
> > I have determined at this point that I can reproduce equivalent
> > functionalities of the DS2450, DS18B20, and others using a PIC.
>
> I've always liked the DS18B20 for one-off projects, but I'm also looking
> to move to something with a reliable source.  (Mouser actually lists
> these as "Obsolete.")

Uh-oh .... haven't seen that yet, but not a problem now.


> One key feature for me is that the TO-92 form factor makes it easy to
> throw a 2- or 3-wire cable on it and use it directly as a remote probe.
>   The other is that you don't have to calibrate it per-unit or per-batch
> (unlike thermistors, yes? haven't used them myself).

The SSOP/SOIC form factors work well as I do this on a small 1/32" PCB with a
relatively large hole on the PCB under the package (better heat transfer).  
Then the back of the PCB can be stuck to the point that needs to be measured.  
I'm thinking SOT-23 sensor + SOT 10F PIC would work well.  For these apps, a
few percent accuracy is fine.


> The new Microchip MCP970x family has both these features (though it's
> not as accurate in the TO-92 package).  I've got a few samples coming;
> has anyone else tried them yet?
> And, are there any other alternatives that come to mind?

Not tried, but there are also other parts.  National Semi has tons of temp
sensors in many different packages, and they have great support.

Cheers,
-Neil.



> --
> Timothy J. Weber
> http://timothyweber.org

2006\08\07@124319 by Timothy Weber

face picon face
PicDude wrote:
>> I've always liked the DS18B20 for one-off projects, but I'm also looking
>> to move to something with a reliable source.  (Mouser actually lists
>> these as "Obsolete.")
>
> Uh-oh .... haven't seen that yet, but not a problem now.

Digikey didn't have them either when I looked maybe a month ago.  They
do now (whew).

> The SSOP/SOIC form factors work well as I do this on a small 1/32" PCB with a
> relatively large hole on the PCB under the package (better heat transfer).  
> Then the back of the PCB can be stuck to the point that needs to be measured.  

Interesting!  I'll think about that one.

> Not tried, but there are also other parts.  National Semi has tons of temp
> sensors in many different packages, and they have great support.

I'll check 'em out, thanks.
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2006\08\07@125157 by Marc Nicholas

picon face
Sparkfun (http://www.sparkfun.com) has the MAX1555 in single quantities. I
bought about 10 units from them not so long ago (it's a great little chip!).

-marc

On 8/6/06, Anon <.....gandro_digestKILLspamspam@spam@yahoo.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2006\08\07@145352 by Jesse Lackey

flavicon
face
Hi, I've had problems with them as well, two things to consider:

1. "order parts for prototypes" on homepage.  Not sure max qty, they
might do as many as 40.  I've gotten 15 or 20 before.

2. doom.com (paid registration required), partminer, etc. brokers.  I've
gotten maxim parts thru brokers when I needed 100+.

And yes, maxim is a real drag to deal with sometimes.  I generally avoid
unless they have something that makes the design significantly better
than the alternatives.  E.g. a nice battery monitor w/protection
circuitry, or a fully-isolated rs-485 chip, etc.  I never use them for
dc/dcs or more conventional battery management or opamps or other stuff
available from TI, Linear, or National.

It is a real shame they make small-qty designs such a risky hassle to do
with their parts.  A questionable business decision, but they pretty
clearly don't spend much effort in this market.  Which IMHO is bad in
the long run, b/c as soon as I have a working circuit that does
<whatever> then that circuit is used in future designs if at all
possible.  So whomever "wins" that chip "socket" as they say wins
multiple times.  The qty 10 original design may be partially recycled
into qty 500 variation, etc.

But maybe they just assume all significant qty orders (1K and up) will
always be designed from scratch for cost reasons, and so the trickle-up
from small qty designs isn't enough to bother.  They may be right.

Good luck
J


Anon wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.

2006\08\07@161703 by Ray Warren

flavicon
face
On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 12:43:16PM -0400, Timothy Weber wrote:

> PicDude wrote:
> >> I've always liked the DS18B20 for one-off projects, but I'm also looking
> >> to move to something with a reliable source.  (Mouser actually lists
> >> these as "Obsolete.")
> >
> > Uh-oh .... haven't seen that yet, but not a problem now.
>
> Digikey didn't have them either when I looked maybe a month ago.  They
> do now (whew).
>
Maxim seems to be changing the number to DS18S20.The only difference I've seen
in the data sheet is that the DS18S20 does not have a configuration register.
Ray Warren

2006\08\07@165759 by Timothy Weber

face picon face
Ray Warren wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 12:43:16PM -0400, Timothy Weber wrote:
>
>> PicDude wrote:
>>>> I've always liked the DS18B20 for one-off projects, but I'm also looking
>>>> to move to something with a reliable source.  (Mouser actually lists
>>>> these as "Obsolete.")
>>> Uh-oh .... haven't seen that yet, but not a problem now.
>> Digikey didn't have them either when I looked maybe a month ago.  They
>> do now (whew).
>>
>  Maxim seems to be changing the number to DS18S20.The only difference I've seen
>  in the data sheet is that the DS18S20 does not have a configuration register.

Interesting, now that I look at it: The -S20 claims it only supports
9-bit resolution, which is why I overlooked it in the past (the -B20 doe
12).  But you can apparently get 12 bits of resolution out of it, but
only through an odd little arithmetic dance described on page 3 of the
datasheet at <http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS18S20.pdf>.  Strange
design.
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2006\08\07@185221 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
> I have determined at this point that I can reproduce
> equivalent functionalities of the DS2450, DS18B20, and others
> using a PIC.  It will take me some weekends of
> development/coding, but I feel it will be best in the long
> run and should eventually recover the costs.  I do like the
> 1-wire concept, but now need to figure out if changing the
> specifics of the protocol and associated timing will still
> violate their IP.
>
> Cheers,
> -Neil.

I understand that you may wish to do this as a "for profit" project, and
this assumes that it could actually be done, but if you were to "open
source" a design, there is effectively nothing that they can do to stop the
publication of a program for a PIC that duplicates the function of one of
their devices. They may be able to shut down one web site with that code
posted, but as soon as they do it, 50 others will copy the code and the fact
that they shut down the page will be posted on all the news channels (e.g.
digg, slashdot, etc...) and they will just be spreading the hate. Ask
scientology about that. Takedown orders have exactly the opposite effect.

I've never received a take down letter yet... I'm sort of looking forward to
my first one. Bad attitude, I know.

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
jamesnewtonspamKILLspampiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


2006\08\07@203321 by David VanHorn

picon face
>
>
> I've never received a take down letter yet... I'm sort of looking forward
> to
> my first one. Bad attitude, I know.


I have an autographed one from Helena Kobrin :)

2006\08\07@220233 by PicDude

flavicon
face
On Monday 07 August 2006 17:52, James Newton, Host wrote:
{Quote hidden}

This will be a commercial app for me, so I want to find out for sure if the
concept of 1-wire is copyrighted, or the protocol specifics.  I doubt the
concept can be copyrighted, especially since I won't need the parasite power.  
What I really need is the ability to have multiple devices communicate
bidirectionally along 1single wire.

Marc, you are the expert at everything 1-wire -- know anything about this?

Cheers,
-Neil.

2006\08\07@222805 by Mark Rages

face picon face
On 8/7/06, PicDude <.....picdudeKILLspamspam.....narwani.net> wrote:
>
> This will be a commercial app for me, so I want to find out for sure if the
> concept of 1-wire is copyrighted, or the protocol specifics.  I doubt the
> concept can be copyrighted, especially since I won't need the parasite power.
> What I really need is the ability to have multiple devices communicate
> bidirectionally along 1single wire.

This paragraph shows some unclear concepts, probably originating with
the sloppy term "Intellectual Property."

Concepts can not be copyrighted.  They can only be patented.  If you
are writing your own code, you need not worry about copyright
infringement.  You must worry about patent infringement.  Fortunately,
and unlike copyright, patents expire after 20 years or so.  So if you
can find when 1-wire devices were introduced, you may be in the clear.
Or you could look at specific patents.  Often, datasheets have a page
with all the relevant patent numbers listed.

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
--
You think that it is a secret, but it never has been one.
 - fortune cookie

2006\08\07@223242 by Jesse Lackey

flavicon
face
Actually I just did this - 1 wire bidirectional over a very erratic
connection.  Look up "LIN" bus.  There are PICs that implement it, or at
least some part of it, in hardware.  I used a LF1320 and a SN74LVC1G07
(SOT23-5) on the PIC uart TX, with a 1K pullup on the wire, and my own
real simple protocol.  Worked great.

J

PicDude wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2006\08\08@081704 by alan smith

picon face
Can I suggest changing the topic? I've been just deleting the messages on this topic because...I dislike Maxim so wasn't interested in the discussion per se about why Maxim sucks.  I just happen not to delete this one  :-)
 
 However, I am also interested in a 1-wire type implementation for a future personal project and would hate to miss a discussion on that.
 
 tnx
 Al

PicDude <EraseMEpicdudespam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTnarwani.net> wrote:
 

This will be a commercial app for me, so I want to find out for sure if the
concept of 1-wire is copyrighted, or the protocol specifics. I doubt the
concept can be copyrighted, especially since I won't need the parasite power.
What I really need is the ability to have multiple devices communicate
bidirectionally along 1single wire.

Marc, you are the expert at everything 1-wire -- know anything about this?

Cheers,
-Neil.

2006\08\13@101311 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I've always liked the DS18B20 for one-off projects, but I'm
> also looking
> to move to something with a reliable source.  (Mouser actually lists
> these as "Obsolete.")

DS18S20?

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\08\13@101311 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I have determined at this point that I can reproduce equivalent
> functionalities of the DS2450, DS18B20, and others using a PIC.

A PIC thermometer? Without external components? With phantom powering?
Show me!

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\08\13@130803 by Bernd Rüter

flavicon
face
part 0 44 bytes
his is a multi-part message in MIME format.
part 1 747 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed (decoded quoted-printable)

Yes, I think there is an application note. I think they use the frequenz-drift of the internal RC-Osc over temperature.

AN720 - internal RC-OSC and WDT on a 12C509A - 1°C accuracy

Wouter van Ooijen schrieb:
>> I have determined at this point that I can reproduce equivalent >> functionalities of the DS2450, DS18B20, and others using a PIC.
> > A PIC thermometer? Without external components? With phantom powering?
> Show me!
> > Wouter van Ooijen
> > -- -------------------------------------------
> Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
> consultancy, development, PICmicro products
> docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu
>  >

part 2 478 bytes content-type:text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8;
(decoded 7bit)

begin:vcard
fn;quoted-printable:Bernd R=C3=BCter
n;quoted-printable:R=C3=BCter;Bernd
org:Promaxx;Entwicklung
adr;quoted-printable;dom:;;W=C3=BClferoder Stra=C3=9Fe 10;Hannover;Nds;30539
email;internet:bernd.rueterspamspam_OUTpromaxx.net
title:Dipl.-Ing.
tel;work:+49 511 3746207
tel;fax:+49 511 3746208
note:Meine Kontakte sammle und pflege ich in OpenBC: http://www.openbc.com/go/invite/3470477.7f1d19
url:http://www.promaxx.net
version:2.1
end:vcard



part 3 35 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
(decoded 7bit)

2006\08\13@141026 by Vasile Surducan

face picon face
On 8/13/06, Wouter van Ooijen <@spam@wouterKILLspamspamvoti.nl> wrote:
> > I've always liked the DS18B20 for one-off projects, but I'm
> > also looking
> > to move to something with a reliable source.  (Mouser actually lists
> > these as "Obsolete.")
>
> DS18S20?

it's the poor version of DS18B20, not recommended for replacement...

Vasile

2006\08\13@151538 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Yes, I think there is an application note. I think they use the
> frequenz-drift of the internal RC-Osc over temperature.

I know that one - but I was not sure you knew :) Actually it uses the
drift of the watchdog oscillator, IIRC

But now about the phantom powering?

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


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