Post by thread:[EE] Low Cost, Low Power POE Device?

I've got a product with a PIC32 in it that I'm currently driving with a 250mA 5V USB style power supply. I'm using a simple linear regulator to drop it to 3.3V for the digital, while keeping the 5V for the analog. Customers don't want to run two wires (Ethernet and USB Power). So, there's always Power Over Ethernet. But, it looks complicated and expensive, especially for the 2 watts or so we need (a lot more than we're currently spending for the USB power supply, cable, connectors, and linear regulator). But, it seems like this should be a common problem with a low cost modular solution. Linear and TI and others are making switching DC to DC converter modules, some of which are pretty inexpensive. It SEEMS like there should be such a module for POE. It'd have the two diode bridges, load switch, DC to DC converter, and a DC output. But, I can't find anything like that (well, I did find one for $35). Most of the POE stuff is emphasizing high power (and cost). Does anyone know of a low cost POE PD module? THANKS! Harold -- FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com - Advertising opportunities available! Not sent from an iPhone

On 26 April 2012 15:34, Harold Hallikainen <spam_OUTharoldTakeThisOuThallikainen.org> wrote: {Quote hidden}> I've got a product with a PIC32 in it that I'm currently driving with a > 250mA 5V USB style power supply. I'm using a simple linear regulator to > drop it to 3.3V for the digital, while keeping the 5V for the analog. > > Customers don't want to run two wires (Ethernet and USB Power). So, > there's always Power Over Ethernet. But, it looks complicated and > expensive, especially for the 2 watts or so we need (a lot more than we're > currently spending for the USB power supply, cable, connectors, and linear > regulator). > > But, it seems like this should be a common problem with a low cost modular > solution. Linear and TI and others are making switching DC to DC converter > modules, some of which are pretty inexpensive. It SEEMS like there should > be such a module for POE. It'd have the two diode bridges, load switch, DC > to DC converter, and a DC output. But, I can't find anything like that > (well, I did find one for $35). Most of the POE stuff is emphasizing high > power (and cost). > > Does anyone know of a low cost POE PD module? > > THANKS! > > Harold Harold IIRC RJ45 connected ethernet - at least for PICs - use transformer coupling at both ends and typically use only 2 of the 4 available pairs. So it should be possible to arrange a power feed by either using the "spare" pairs in the RJ45 connection, or to arrange centre tapped transformers to feed the power & return down the 2 used pairs. Just so long as the voltage and power levels are low. And whtch out for high surge currents when connecting and capacitors charge up. Can't much more simple than that - or am I missing something? R

On 4/25/2012 11:34 PM, Harold Hallikainen wrote: > But, it seems like this should be a common problem with a low cost modular > solution. Linear and TI and others are making switching DC to DC converter > modules, some of which are pretty inexpensive. It SEEMS like there should > be such a module for POE. It'd have the two diode bridges, load switch, DC > to DC converter, and a DC output. But, I can't find anything like that > (well, I did find one for $35). Most of the POE stuff is emphasizing high > power (and cost). I think the problem you are having is looking for a pre-built module when most devices that will need POE have it implemented in the main board . The cost to build your own POE converter is really low, can easily do it for under $10. Put two bridges, a MAX5940 and a MAX5014 , a few resistors and you are done.\ Mark

On 4/26/2012 7:11 AM, Mark Hanchey wrote: > On 4/25/2012 11:34 PM, Harold Hallikainen wrote: >> But, it seems like this should be a common problem with a low cost modular >> solution. Linear and TI and others are making switching DC to DC converter >> modules, some of which are pretty inexpensive. It SEEMS like there should >> be such a module for POE. It'd have the two diode bridges, load switch, DC >> to DC converter, and a DC output. But, I can't find anything like that >> (well, I did find one for $35). Most of the POE stuff is emphasizing high >> power (and cost). > I think the problem you are having is looking for a pre-built module > when most devices that will need POE have it implemented in the main > board . The cost to build your own POE converter is really low, can > easily do it for under $10. > Put two bridges, a MAX5940 and a MAX5014 , a few resistors and you are > done.\ > > MarK I did a quick search and these modules sell for under $8. http://www.semiconductorstore.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=13982 Mark

If you have control of both ends, and are not too concerned with interoperability and isolation, then just use the spare pairs to provide to power. ....Andy On 26/04/2012 04:34, Harold Hallikainen wrote: {Quote hidden}> I've got a product with a PIC32 in it that I'm currently driving with a > 250mA 5V USB style power supply. I'm using a simple linear regulator to > drop it to 3.3V for the digital, while keeping the 5V for the analog. > > Customers don't want to run two wires (Ethernet and USB Power). So, > there's always Power Over Ethernet. But, it looks complicated and > expensive, especially for the 2 watts or so we need (a lot more than we're > currently spending for the USB power supply, cable, connectors, and linear > regulator). > > But, it seems like this should be a common problem with a low cost modular > solution. Linear and TI and others are making switching DC to DC converter > modules, some of which are pretty inexpensive. It SEEMS like there should > be such a module for POE. It'd have the two diode bridges, load switch, DC > to DC converter, and a DC output. But, I can't find anything like that > (well, I did find one for $35). Most of the POE stuff is emphasizing high > power (and cost). > > Does anyone know of a low cost POE PD module? > > THANKS! > > Harold > > >

{Quote hidden}> On 4/26/2012 7:11 AM, Mark Hanchey wrote: >> On 4/25/2012 11:34 PM, Harold Hallikainen wrote: >>> But, it seems like this should be a common problem with a low cost >>> modular >>> solution. Linear and TI and others are making switching DC to DC >>> converter >>> modules, some of which are pretty inexpensive. It SEEMS like there >>> should >>> be such a module for POE. It'd have the two diode bridges, load switch, >>> DC >>> to DC converter, and a DC output. But, I can't find anything like that >>> (well, I did find one for $35). Most of the POE stuff is emphasizing >>> high >>> power (and cost). >> I think the problem you are having is looking for a pre-built module >> when most devices that will need POE have it implemented in the main >> board . The cost to build your own POE converter is really low, can >> easily do it for under $10. >> Put two bridges, a MAX5940 and a MAX5014 , a few resistors and you are >> done.\ >> >> MarK > > I did a quick search and these modules sell for under $8. > http://www.semiconductorstore.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=13982 > > Mark > Thanks for the ideas! I see the MAX5014 is not recommended for new designs. Looking at the suggested replacement, MAX17500, it requires quite a few external parts. It SEEMS that they'd be able to use an internal FET. And it seems that they'd be able to do voltage regulation by watching the peak primary voltage (not as tight regulation, but reasonable). That'd save the opto. I look at some boost converter chips (I'm often using ones from LT) that need very few external components. I look at a flyback converter as being very similar to a boost. If you take an "output" of a boost converter as across the inductor (instead of inductor to ground), then you'd have the equivalent of a flyback with a 1:1 transformer. Anyway... I guess I could use any flyback converter following the MAX5490, which, by itself, does not look too bad. The module you point out looks great EXCEPT the output is not isolated, as required for POE. So, I really appreciate the quick response! I'll consider these ideas and keep looking for a POE module. Thanks! Harold -- FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com - Advertising opportunities available! Not sent from an iPhone

> > On Apr 26, 2012, at 10:40 AM, Harold Hallikainen wrote: > >> The module you point out looks great EXCEPT the output is not isolated > > Sivertel makes isolated converters as well. Somewhat more expensive, but > still in the "about $10" range. They're 6W; I'd really like to see a > smaller, cheaper, 2W unit as well. > > OTOH, I think the switch-side costs of PoE make $10 seem pretty cheap… > > BillW > > Thanks! I now see them at http://www.silvertel.com/poe_products.htm . Looks like a possibility. Harold -- FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com - Advertising opportunities available! Not sent from an iPhone