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'[EE] Limits of virtualization (VMware etc)'
2007\12\04@175318 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Matt Pobursky wrote in "Re: [OT] Dell Linux Desktop -- poor sales":

> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 07:21:05 -0500, Byron Jeff wrote:
>> BTW you should consider virtualization while trying to transistion. Tools
>> like VMware will allow you to carry Win2000 with you, while Wine and its
>> admittedly hit and miss nature, facilitates bringing over Windows
>> applications without the OS.
>
> It may happen that way, I'm not sure at this point. One thing I do know
> is that right now VMWare and Wine don't get it done for me. I've
> experimented with that approach and there are way too many problems to
> fight and make it cost effective (never mind the annoyance factor). Too
> many of the software packages I run are tied to the Windows hardware
> interface.

Could you please share your experiences with the limitations of VMware?
When was that, and with which product?

Thanks,
Gerhard

2007\12\04@184752 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Dec 5, 2007 6:52 AM, Gerhard Fiedler <spam_OUTlistsTakeThisOuTspamconnectionbrazil.com> wrote:
> >
> > It may happen that way, I'm not sure at this point. One thing I do know
> > is that right now VMWare and Wine don't get it done for me. I've
> > experimented with that approach and there are way too many problems to
> > fight and make it cost effective (never mind the annoyance factor). Too
> > many of the software packages I run are tied to the Windows hardware
> > interface.
>
> Could you please share your experiences with the limitations of VMware?
> When was that, and with which product?
>

One big problem: USB dongle
http://communities.vmware.com/message/545754
http://communities.vmware.com/message/586528

I am thinking that node-locked version may be another problem.

Actually USB support in general is a problem but things are improving.

If I go further, specific hardware and drivers are the main problem. You want
to play games under your VM with super graphics card? No way. You
want to use your GPIB card under VM? I do not know if you could do
that for now.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2007\12\04@190017 by Shawn Tan

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On Tuesday 04 December 2007 23:47:47 Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> Actually USB support in general is a problem but things are improving.

I've recently had some success using USB devices under KVM/Qemu. However,
support is also limited. They've only recently introduced it. They claim that
it doesn't work with hubs and similar devices. But should work for most other
things. I've only tested it with usb-storage devices and it works.

Cheers.

--
with metta,
Shawn Tan

Aeste Works (M) Sdn Bhd - Engineering Elegance
http://www.aeste.net

2007\12\04@222439 by Matt Pobursky

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On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:52:07 -0200, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
> Matt Pobursky wrote in "Re: [OT] Dell Linux Desktop -- poor sales":
>
>> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 07:21:05 -0500, Byron Jeff wrote:
>>> BTW you should consider virtualization while trying to transistion.
>>> Tools like VMware will allow you to carry Win2000 with you, while
>>> Wine and its admittedly hit and miss nature, facilitates bringing
>>> over Windows applications without the OS.
>>>
>>
>> It may happen that way, I'm not sure at this point. One thing I do know
>> is that right now VMWare and Wine don't get it done for me. I've
>> experimented with that approach and there are way too many problems to
>> fight and make it cost effective (never mind the annoyance factor). Too
>> many of the software packages I run are tied to the Windows hardware
>> interface.
>>
>
> Could you please share your experiences with the limitations of VMware?
> When was that, and with which product?

Most of my bad experiences with VMWare were hardware related, i.e. the CCS
USB ICD PIC programmer/debugger software failed to find and control the ICD
pod, similar problems with the programming software and IDE Debugger for
both the USB and parallel port JTAG pods for the MSP430 family. These were
the last devices I tried about a year ago.

I have never had many problems with pure software tasks under VMWare. I
haven't tried tried any of the "heavy duty" software like my 3D CAD that
takes advantage of my dual head display and relies heavily on the 3D
acceleration in the video card. I suspect that might be problematic as well
but I don't know for sure.

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems

2007\12\04@233146 by Herbert Graf

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On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 21:24 -0600, Matt Pobursky wrote:
> Most of my bad experiences with VMWare were hardware related, i.e. the CCS
> USB ICD PIC programmer/debugger software failed to find and control the ICD
> pod, similar problems with the programming software and IDE Debugger for
> both the USB and parallel port JTAG pods for the MSP430 family. These were
> the last devices I tried about a year ago.

FWIW the MChip ICD2 works wonderfully under VMWare.

TTYL

2007\12\05@033715 by Morgan Olsson

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Den 2007-12-05 05:31:23 skrev Herbert Graf <.....mailinglist3KILLspamspam@spam@farcite.net>:

> FWIW the MChip ICD2 works wonderfully under VMWare.

I have both ICD2 and Real-ICE running in windows under Parallels on Mandriva Linux.
Works "out of the box"

--
Morgan Olsson

2007\12\05@071824 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Matt Pobursky wrote:

>> Could you please share your experiences with the limitations of VMware?
>> When was that, and with which product?
>
> Most of my bad experiences with VMWare were hardware related, i.e. the
> CCS USB ICD PIC programmer/debugger software failed to find and control
> the ICD pod, similar problems with the programming software and IDE
> Debugger for both the USB and parallel port JTAG pods for the MSP430
> family. These were the last devices I tried about a year ago.

I suppose you didn't try any of the USB sharing devices or software (the
threads Xiaofan cited in his messages link to a number of USB sharing
solutions).

http://www.intellidriver.com/products_1.16.html looks like it may be able
to share a USB device from the physical machine into a virtual machine for
a reasonable price. Of course, it may not work... :)

> I have never had many problems with pure software tasks under VMWare. I
> haven't tried tried any of the "heavy duty" software like my 3D CAD that
> takes advantage of my dual head display and relies heavily on the 3D
> acceleration in the video card. I suspect that might be problematic as
> well but I don't know for sure.

Ah, yes, this sounds problematic.

Thanks,
Gerhard


'[EE] Limits of virtualization (VMware etc)'
2009\03\02@083217 by Ariel Rocholl
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Just reviving this old thread, wondering if newest VMWare under Windows
works well in your experience guys with ICD2 and/or PICKIT2 and/or PIC32
Starter Kit. We may need to plan for new hardware soon and being VMWare a
reliable platform in terms of USB would certainly influence our approach on
how we deploy it.
Any experience with recent VMWare versions in this regards is really
appreciated (again context is WindowsXP-guest on WindowsXP-host, I saw the
Fusion thread but looks like different context than mine)

TIA

2007/12/5 Herbert Graf <mailinglist3spamKILLspamfarcite.net>

{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\03\02@085104 by Tamas Rudnai

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On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Ariel Rocholl <.....arochollKILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:

> Any experience with recent VMWare versions in this regards is really
> appreciated (again context is WindowsXP-guest on WindowsXP-host, I saw the
> Fusion thread but looks like different context than mine)
>

Are you using VmWare for developing device drivers for your USB device? Just
curious...

Tamas
--
Rudonix DoubleSaver
http://www.rudonix.com

2009\03\02@085444 by Ariel Rocholl

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Not really, we are using HID and RS232 standard drivers from chip vendors
(prolific and ftdi).

2009/3/2 Tamas Rudnai <EraseMEtamas.rudnaispam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com>

{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\03\03@063742 by Ariel Rocholl

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No experiences anyone?

2009/3/2 Ariel Rocholl <@spam@arochollKILLspamspamgmail.com>

{Quote hidden}

>> --

2009\03\03@072819 by olin piclist

face picon face
Ariel Rocholl wrote:
> No experiences anyone?

You already asked once, now you're just being a nag.

People didn't answer your original message because they didn't know the
answer, didn't care, don't like you, were busy, or for any number of reasons
that are their business alone.  In any case however, it's their call to
make.  You can have a full refund any time you don't like the free advice
you receive here.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\03\03@090737 by olin piclist

face picon face
Ariel Rocholl wrote:
> I know I asked twice. I've been on email list and forums long enough
> to know how to behave on them, when to ask once, when to ask twice.

Clearly not, since you did in fact ask twice within a few days.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\03\03@094349 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
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> You already asked once ...


If you gentlemen must have conversations like this, regardless of the
merits, or not, of the points and counterpoints made, would you please (but
preferably not at all) have them in [OT].

 ta muchly

            Russell


2009\03\03@095715 by fred jones

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Better yet, have them offline.  Olin's rants are getting old.

> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 03:43:08 +1300
> From: RemoveMEapptechTakeThisOuTspamparadise.net.nz
> Subject: Re: [EE] Limits of virtualization (VMware etc)
> To: spamBeGonepiclistspamBeGonespammit.edu
>
> > You already asked once ...
>
>
> If you gentlemen must have conversations like this, regardless of the
> merits, or not, of the points and counterpoints made, would you please (but
> preferably not at all) have them in [OT].
>
> ta muchly
>
> Russell
>
>
> -


'[EE] Limits of virtualization (VMware etc)'
2009\11\25@175842 by Ariel Rocholl
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Answering myself:

After about 6 months of successful work on PICKIT2/ICD2/PIC32 starter kit
among many other USB devices (including mass storage and USB/RS232 chips) I
found VMWare Server 2.x working really well, mostly for being a free
download. Fully recommended for those of you looking for working on isolated
VM inside a host you want to keep clean, for reference a WinVista 64bits
hosts nicely multiple WinXP 32bits sessions with USB hardware so far for me.


VMWare USB driver layer works so well for me that in some cases is better
than working on the host, for instace there are some cheap chips like HL340
for USB/RS232 which don't like WinVista 64bits, but the driver VMWare puts
on the 64bits host to proxy it on the guest ignores this fact and HL340
installs just nicely on the guest even though it wouldn't work on the host.

Another neat feature is the fact you can work remotely with VMWare console
from a laptop, and connect/disconnect the USB device with a drop down list
remotely as well, making the guest software really emulate plug-in/out USB
so you don't have to physically be there to reinit the driver or simulate
faulty connection.

Cheers.


2009/3/2 Ariel Rocholl <TakeThisOuTarochollEraseMEspamspam_OUTgmail.com>

{Quote hidden}

>> --

2009\11\26@122957 by Dwayne Reid

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At 03:58 PM 11/25/2009, Ariel Rocholl wrote:

>After about 6 months of successful work on PICKIT2/ICD2/PIC32 starter kit
>among many other USB devices (including mass storage and USB/RS232 chips) I
>found VMWare Server 2.x working really well, mostly for being a free
>download. Fully recommended for those of you looking for working on isolated
>VM inside a host you want to keep clean, for reference a WinVista 64bits
>hosts nicely multiple WinXP 32bits sessions with USB hardware so far for me.

Many thanks for posting your results.  Yet another reason to try and
find time to play with VMware Server.

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid   <dwaynerEraseMEspam.....planet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

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