Post by thread:[EE] LINUX (FEISTY) password not recognized

Thanks for the link, not sure which password is missing, but here's what I have: Normal boot to Kubuntu blue screen asking for password with small window with button for user (carl), carl also in user blank and place to enter password below, which I enter ASDFGH (not real one but is caps). No known password is accepted. Boot to GRUB recovery mode: Give root password for maintenance, and ASDFGH is accepted prompt is "root@COMPAQ:~#" able to passwd carl and enter and confirm password ASDFGH per the link, able to root@COMPAQ:~# apt-get install carl .... couldn't find package carl also tried sudo apt... with same result. Am able to get to grub and back to root. Any help appreciated to get to KUBUNTU. {Quote hidden}> I believe you have create the default user (Ubuntu by default will > not has a root and the first default user can use sudo to carry > out admin work) and remember the password. That is the > password. If you really forget the password, boot into the > rescue mode (single user mode) and use passed to set the > password again. > > http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Gutsy#How_to_recover_user_passwords > > > I think GRUB recover is to recovered the bootloader only. > > As for the update, yes the amount of update for modern > Linux is enormous, so a broadband connection is recommended. > You can try to use a fast local or oversea mirror. > > Xiaofan >

Thanks so much, I sure was trying to get away from another fresh install since I have a lot of time and effort to get this install up to date and the add ons installed. I thought someone here might have a quick fix here, but I will take the problem to the Ubuntu forum.Thanks again. I guess part of the reason I brought the issue here, was as part of the laptop thread which wandered to Linux, to let people know there are installs out there that do go goofy for whatever the reason, and there is a definite learning curve. Though I am comfortable with command line, Unix was an area I hadn't ventured much to with much of the command line I did was CPM and DOS. Shawn Tan wrote: {Quote hidden}> On Monday 03 December 2007 15:39:39 Carl Denk wrote: > >> root@COMPAQ:~# apt-get install john >> and get back a bunch of lines, near the end includes: "couldn't resolve >> us.archive.ubuntu.com" and suggested trying "apt-get update", which I tried >> with similar result. >> > > You don't have network access, which isn't surprising if this is the recovery > console. > > Something obviously went wrong somewhere. I have made more than 10 feisty > installations of K/X/Ubuntu and they were all okay. I would suggest that you > re-install feisty, from scratch. > > Alternatively, I suggest taking up your problem to a proper ubuntu forum. They > might be able to advise you better. > > Cheers. > >

On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 10:39 -0500, Carl Denk wrote: > Of course, a variable is always in brackets, italics or something. Did the > > root@COMPAQ:~# apt-get install john > and get back a bunch of lines, near the end includes: "couldn't resolve us.archive.ubuntu.com" and suggested trying "apt-get update", which I tried with similar result. A neat trick I've used in the past when dealing with password issues: - boot to single user - open /etc/shadow - replace the "encrypted text" of the account you want access to with the "encrypted text" of an account you know the password of - reboot The result is the account you want access to will now have the password of the account you know! There are alot of ways of fixing this problem, but I've found this method to be by far the fastest! :) TTYL

Thanks for the reply, but, yes the install is as you say probably 30 minutes, but then click the update, ant there was like 80 items installed at more than an hour (seemed more like a windows update)(even though had just downloaded the latest version), then I added the addons to make it useful that was another more than hour. I had Gutsy installed and the same thing happened, couldn't get in the system. If there isn't a simple solution to this, I'll just forget Unix. As far as what's on the computer, other than trying to make a boot install disc for the Compaq XP home, there is nothing worth saving, it's a test machine (1G celeron with 256m ram) inherited from granddaughter. Once I got comfortable with Kubuntu, I was going to install it on my main machine and try to migrate away from windows. ~: Shawn Tan wrote: {Quote hidden}> On Monday 03 December 2007 16:24:41 Carl Denk wrote: > >> Thanks so much, I sure was trying to get away from another fresh install >> since I have a lot of time and effort to get this install up to date and >> the add ons installed. I thought someone here might have a quick fix >> here, but I will take the problem to the Ubuntu forum.Thanks again. I >> > > I felt that the fastest way to solve it was to re-install. It probably takes > less than 30 minutes to do so. It may take you longer to try various > solutions that people suggest here, and then report back results, and try > again. > > Cheers. > >

--- Carl Denk <.....cdenkKILLspam.....alltel.net> wrote: > If there isn't > a simple solution to this, I'll just forget Unix. That's the spirit! There are lots of definitions of "simple", so you may find that you've spent more than your alotted time already, and give Linux a try next year. Regarding passwords, I remember once on a Suse install(back when I like Suse) it used a different keyboard map during installation than after, so my password was rejected after rebooting. Smart guy that I am, I figured it out. Swapped in a "z" for a "y" and I was back in. But I'm surprised nobody has come up with an easy cure for your password problem. I would have thought booting from a CD, mounting the hard drive read/write, and blanking the password would be all it takes. However Linux does evolve constantly, so something that worked two years ago or even last week might not work today. Usually the "improvements" are good, but finding help for the flavor of the month can be quite difficult. Cheerful regards, Bob

The boot is GRUB dual boot with XP, a choice there is recovery mode. That gets me to command prompt and a password which is accepted. Then the prompt looks like "root@compaq:~#" and I have been able to create a new user there with password and make an admin. Restarting and from Kubuntu log on screen, selecting that new user and password results in a blank screen briefly and the Kubuntu logon screen again. Selecting the original user results in the red not of the password not good. Lucas Korytkowski wrote: > The most common way to reset passwords is to boot into single user mode. It > depends on how the boot works. On some, you need to boot off the CD or DVD, > others it's a boot-up switch you type in. > > Sorry I can't be of help on Feisty specifically, but the boot prompts should > help you out. > > {Original Message removed}

> > But I'm surprised nobody has come up with an easy cure > for your password problem. I would have thought > booting from a CD, mounting the hard drive read/write, > and blanking the password would be all it takes. > However Linux does evolve constantly, so something > that worked two years ago or even last week might not > work today. Usually the "improvements" are good, but > finding help for the flavor of the month can be quite > difficult. > Boot from a CD, your system's filesystems will be mounted somewhere, I do not remember where exactly. Possibly they are mounted read-only, then you need to remount them as rw. Go to root of your original filesystem, enter "chroot ." there. Then just passwd and enter a new password, it should affect the passwd file of the original system now. Never had a problem with passwords, have just solved different problems this way. Currently typing from ubuntu 7.10 installed yesterday, with no trouble so far. At least it was working with my hardware from the beginning, previous version was not that easy. BTW, i find "alternate" install faster than live cd. Possibly just a lot more free ram. -- KPL

On Monday 03 December 2007 21:29:08 Carl Denk wrote: > new user there with password and make an admin. Restarting and from > Kubuntu log on screen, selecting that new user and password results in > a blank screen briefly and the Kubuntu logon screen again. Selecting the > original user results in the red not of the password not good. First, let's make sure that the user login is working. At your Kubuntu login screen, do the following: hit CTRL-ALT-F6. This will drop you into the console. you should the prompt "login:" enter your username and then password. If there are no errors, it will drop you into the shell. username@hostname:~$ If you can get here.. it means that your user account works correctly. Otherwise, something is wrong with the username/password. If you login correctly, there might be something wrong with the permissions in the user directory that's preventing KDE from starting up. Maybe the ~/.kde directory permissions are set incorrectly. -- with metta, Shawn Tan Aeste Works (M) Sdn Bhd - Engineering Elegance http://www.aeste.net

On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 16:29 -0500, Carl Denk wrote: > The boot is GRUB dual boot with XP, a choice there is recovery mode. > That gets me to command prompt and a password which is accepted. Then > the prompt looks like "root@compaq:~#" and I have been able to create a > new user there with password and make an admin. Restarting and from > Kubuntu log on screen, selecting that new user and password results in > a blank screen briefly and the Kubuntu logon screen again. Selecting the > original user results in the red not of the password not good. That first result (blank screen) sounds like X trying to start up your selected window manager, erroring out and dumping back to the login prompt. Generally this occurs if: - disk is full - /tmp is either full or write protected for that user - user's home directory either doesn't exist, is full, or is write protected My guess if you didn't create a home directory for the user you tried to log in with? An essential thing to know about ANY linux distro is any time something goes wrong there's a very good chance a hint will be found in /var/log/messages. When you're at the Ubuntu log in screen, press CTRL-ALT F2. This will bring you to a virtual text terminal. Log in as root and run: tail -f /var/log/messages Press ALT-F7 to return to the GUI and try to log in with the "blank screen" user. When it returns to the login prompt press CTRL-ALT F2 again and see what messages were spit out. Chances are you'll see in there what's wrong. As an aside: Ubuntu is "different" in how it deals with users with regards to other distros I've encountered. Case in point, I changed the root password on my machine here using the passwd command. It changed it for everything but the update manager?? I then tried changing the password with the user account GUI, but same result. I haven't spent the time to figure it out, all I know is whenever I enter a root password I enter the changed one, except when the update manager asks for it, bizarre... TTYL

On Dec 3, 2007 3:29 PM, Carl Denk <EraseMEcdenkspam_OUTTakeThisOuTalltel.net> wrote: > The boot is GRUB dual boot with XP, a choice there is recovery mode. > That gets me to command prompt and a password which is accepted. Then > the prompt looks like "root@compaq:~#" and I have been able to create a > new user there with password and make an admin. Restarting and from > Kubuntu log on screen, selecting that new user and password results in > a blank screen briefly and the Kubuntu logon screen again. Selecting the > original user results in the red not of the password not good. > from the root shell (the one with #) you can reset you user's password. The command is "passwd <username>" (replace <username>, of course) and then it will prompt you for the new password. The new user not being able to login leads me to think there is something broken in the system. That means the KDE setup process is failing somehow. Look for a log in /var/log after this happens. It will tell you exactly what went wrong. I don't know the exact log file name, if you sort by date (ls -latr) the last line shown is the most recently changed log file. Regards, Mark markrages@gmail -- Mark Rages, Engineer Midwest Telecine LLC markragesspam_OUTmidwesttelecine.com

> As an aside: Ubuntu is "different" in how it deals with users with > regards to other distros I've encountered. Case in point, I changed the > root password on my machine here using the passwd command. It changed it > for everything but the update manager?? I then tried changing the > password with the user account GUI, but same result. I haven't spent the > time to figure it out, all I know is whenever I enter a root password I > enter the changed one, except when the update manager asks for it, > bizarre... > > TTYL > Keep in mind that by default ubuntu has no "root" user. Or rather the password is randomly set and the account is disabled for login. see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo You use sudo as yourself to do administrative tasks. The "enter password" thing that jumps up on screen is gksudo its asking for you password so it can run the command with sudo graphically. You can give root a password if you wish otherwise you can sudo su when you want to be the admin for a while.

On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 09:54 +1100, Jake Anderson wrote: > > As an aside: Ubuntu is "different" in how it deals with users with > > regards to other distros I've encountered. Case in point, I changed the > > root password on my machine here using the passwd command. It changed it > > for everything but the update manager?? I then tried changing the > > password with the user account GUI, but same result. I haven't spent the > > time to figure it out, all I know is whenever I enter a root password I > > enter the changed one, except when the update manager asks for it, > > bizarre... > > > > TTYL > > > > Keep in mind that by default ubuntu has no "root" user. Or rather the > password is randomly set and the account is disabled for login. > see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo Yup, and it's the first thing I disable (or enable depending on which way you look at things) on a new install. There are times I NEED root, typing sudo before every single command gets VERY trying... :) > You use sudo as yourself to do administrative tasks. The "enter > password" thing that jumps up on screen is gksudo its asking for you > password so it can run the command with sudo graphically. You can give > root a password if you wish otherwise you can sudo su when you want to > be the admin for a while. So, on my machine I have a root user, I've passwd'd it with a new password, and that's fine, except gksudo still has the old one! :) Any idea why that would be? Is it possible that gksudo doesn't look for the password of root, but of the first user account? I should try changing my user account password and see if it affects gksudo? Thanks, TTYL

On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 10:41 +1300, Apptech wrote: > > A neat trick I've used in the past when dealing with > > password issues: > > > > - boot to single user > > - open /etc/shadow > > - replace the "encrypted text" of the account you want > > access to with > > the "encrypted text" of an account you know the password > > of > > - reboot > > > The result is the account you want access to will now have > > the password > > of the account you know! There are alot of ways of fixing > > this problem, > > but I've found this method to be by far the fastest! :) > > Sure sounds like a security hole to me :-) Not really. The rational is that to boot to single user you have to be physically present at the machine, no remote connections are possible. So the opinion is if you have to have physical access to the machine to do it, why bother doing anything to stop it since someone with physical access could just pull the drive and stick it into another machine anyways! :) Alot of people balk at discovering such a thing is possible, but end up agreeing it's not much of a big deal. TTYL

On Dec 3, 2007 5:08 PM, Herbert Graf <@spam@mailinglist3KILLspamfarcite.net> wrote: {Quote hidden}> On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 09:54 +1100, Jake Anderson wrote: > > > As an aside: Ubuntu is "different" in how it deals with users with > > > regards to other distros I've encountered. Case in point, I changed the > > > root password on my machine here using the passwd command. It changed it > > > for everything but the update manager?? I then tried changing the > > > password with the user account GUI, but same result. I haven't spent the > > > time to figure it out, all I know is whenever I enter a root password I > > > enter the changed one, except when the update manager asks for it, > > > bizarre... > > > > > > TTYL > > > > > > > Keep in mind that by default ubuntu has no "root" user. Or rather the > > password is randomly set and the account is disabled for login. > > see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo > > Yup, and it's the first thing I disable (or enable depending on which > way you look at things) on a new install. There are times I NEED root, > typing sudo before every single command gets VERY trying... :) You can type "sudo bash" or "sudo -s" to get a root shell. {Quote hidden}> > > You use sudo as yourself to do administrative tasks. The "enter > > password" thing that jumps up on screen is gksudo its asking for you > > password so it can run the command with sudo graphically. You can give > > root a password if you wish otherwise you can sudo su when you want to > > be the admin for a while. > > So, on my machine I have a root user, I've passwd'd it with a new > password, and that's fine, except gksudo still has the old one! :) Any > idea why that would be? Is it possible that gksudo doesn't look for the > password of root, but of the first user account? I should try changing > my user account password and see if it affects gksudo? > sudo (and gksudo) ask for the user's password, not root's password. The normal Ubuntu installation doesn't have a root password. It's not looking for the first user account but the one gksudo is run under, which would be the account you use to login to X. Regards, Mark markrages@gmail -- Mark Rages, Engineer Midwest Telecine LLC KILLspammarkragesKILLspammidwesttelecine.com

Tried several things 1: Booted live disc, then administration > users, created a new user with password, restarted to Kubuntu login screen. New user was not there, shown users same as before, locked out. 2: Shawn's suggestion: First, let's make sure that the user login is working. At your Kubuntu login screen, do the following: hit CTRL-ALT-F6. This will drop you into the console. you should the prompt "login:" enter your username and then password. If there are no errors, it will drop you into the shell. username@hostname:~$ If you can get here.. it means that your user account works correctly. Otherwise, something is wrong with the username/password. This worked OK. Working toward getting to the log files, have seen them while working under the live CD, hope to access them from the windows machine via ethernet and then either print or save and attach to e-mail. There were some questionable items, but didn't have a way to copy paste. Herbert Graf wrote: {Quote hidden}> On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 16:29 -0500, Carl Denk wrote: > >> The boot is GRUB dual boot with XP, a choice there is recovery mode. >> That gets me to command prompt and a password which is accepted. Then >> the prompt looks like "root@compaq:~#" and I have been able to create a >> new user there with password and make an admin. Restarting and from >> Kubuntu log on screen, selecting that new user and password results in >> a blank screen briefly and the Kubuntu logon screen again. Selecting the >> original user results in the red not of the password not good. >> > > That first result (blank screen) sounds like X trying to start up your > selected window manager, erroring out and dumping back to the login > prompt. > > Generally this occurs if: > - disk is full > - /tmp is either full or write protected for that user > - user's home directory either doesn't exist, is full, or is write > protected > > My guess if you didn't create a home directory for the user you tried to > log in with? > > An essential thing to know about ANY linux distro is any time something > goes wrong there's a very good chance a hint will be found > in /var/log/messages. When you're at the Ubuntu log in screen, press > CTRL-ALT F2. This will bring you to a virtual text terminal. Log in as > root and run: > > tail -f /var/log/messages > > Press ALT-F7 to return to the GUI and try to log in with the "blank > screen" user. When it returns to the login prompt press CTRL-ALT F2 > again and see what messages were spit out. Chances are you'll see in > there what's wrong. > > As an aside: Ubuntu is "different" in how it deals with users with > regards to other distros I've encountered. Case in point, I changed the > root password on my machine here using the passwd command. It changed it > for everything but the update manager?? I then tried changing the > password with the user account GUI, but same result. I haven't spent the > time to figure it out, all I know is whenever I enter a root password I > enter the changed one, except when the update manager asks for it, > bizarre... > > TTYL >

Carl Denk wrote: {Quote hidden}> Tried several things > 1: Booted live disc, then administration > users, created a new user > with password, restarted to Kubuntu login screen. New user was not > there, shown users same as before, locked out. > > 2: Shawn's suggestion: First, let's make sure that the user login is > working. At your Kubuntu login > screen, do the following: > > hit CTRL-ALT-F6. > This will drop you into the console. you should the prompt "login:" > > enter your username and then password. > If there are no errors, it will drop you into the shell. > username@hostname:~$ > > If you can get here.. it means that your user account works correctly. > Otherwise, something is wrong with the username/password. > > This worked OK. > > Working toward getting to the log files, have seen them while working > under the live CD, hope to access them from the windows machine via > ethernet and then either print or save and attach to e-mail. There were > some questionable items, but didn't have a way to copy paste. > If you can give us a bit of a hit as to what they are saying it might be enough. just the general gist of what comes up whats complaining about what. Also sometimes things seem to be in syslog rather than messages so try a tail -f /var/log/syslog another one which may be good to look at is /var/log/Xorg.0.log (you might wish to use nano to look at that one) for sending email perhaps take a look at nail http://www.linux.com/articles/51767 sudo apt-get install nail (mail is good but it needs a boatload of other stuff installed as well which you dont really need)

On 12/4/07, Shawn Tan <spamBeGoneshawn.tanspamBeGoneaeste.net> wrote: > On Monday 03 December 2007 23:38:38 Carl Denk wrote: > > If you can get here.. it means that your user account works correctly. > > Otherwise, something is wrong with the username/password. > > > > This worked OK. > > OK. This means that the username+password works. It's possible that the > permissions for the home directory got fouled up at some point. So, from the > console: > > $ sudo chown -R username.username /home/username/ > $ sudo /etc/init.d/kdm restart > > and try again. This happened to me before on Ubuntu. I was testing piklab and use sudo/gksudo and somehow one file related to X (I believe it was .Xauthority) would have the wrong permission. The I was locked out of X. The "kdm" in "$ sudo /etc/init.d/kdm restart" may need to change to "gdm" since by default Ubuntu is using gdm. I was actually using "Ctrl-Alt-Backspace" to restart gdm. Xiaofan

Tried a few more things: 1:$ sudo chown -R username.username /home/username/ > $ sudo /etc/init.d/kdm restart Commands were accepted, but no change 2: /var/log/syslog and /var/log/Xorg.0.log was able to save in Word format on XP machine these 2 files. I can attach these files to a private message, you can ask at TakeThisOuTcdenkEraseMEspam_OUTalltel.net The Syslog has some suspicious items, including: Dec 3 21:48:44ubuntu dhcdbd: message_handler: message handler not found under /com/redhat/dhcp/eth0 for sub-path eth0.dbus.get.host_name Dec 3 21:48:45 ubuntu NetworkManager: <WARN> nm_spawn_process(): nm_spawn_process('/usr/sbin/nscd -i hosts'): could not spawn process. (Failed to execute child process "/usr/sbin/nscd" (No such file or directory)) and in XORG.0.LOG (II) intel(0): xf86BindGARTMemory: bind key 0 at 0x00000000 (pgoffset 0) (WW) intel(0): xf86AllocateGARTMemory: allocation of 1024 pages failed (Cannot allocate memory) (II) intel(0): No physical memory available for 4194304 bytes of DCACHE (II) intel(0): xf86BindGARTMemory: bind key 1 at 0x00800000 (pgoffset 2048) (II) intel(0): Allocated of 4096 bytes for HW cursor (II) intel(0): xf86BindGARTMemory: bind key 2 at 0x00801000 (pgoffset 2049) (II) intel(0): Allocated of 16384 bytes for ARGB HW cursor In googling for "ubuntu dhcdbd", I find a bug "Bug #93360 in dhcdbd (Ubuntu)" and the fix is to install the latest updates (I can get to the web). How do I running the live CD download and install these? I don't know if this will solve my problem, but it's a start, seems to be a network install issue. 3: I tried: $ sudo chown -R username.username /home/username/ $ sudo /etc/init.d/kdm restart but wasn't succesful, tried with and without sudo, and "username", and "carl" the user 4: Now the Kubuntu login responds the same to the 3 users avaiable there, the brief blank screen followed by return to the login screen. Entry of an incorrect password does trigger the red message. Xiaofan Chen wrote: {Quote hidden}> On 12/4/07, Shawn Tan <RemoveMEshawn.tanTakeThisOuTaeste.net> wrote: > >> On Monday 03 December 2007 23:38:38 Carl Denk wrote: >> >>> If you can get here.. it means that your user account works correctly. >>> Otherwise, something is wrong with the username/password. >>> >>> This worked OK. >>> >> OK. This means that the username+password works. It's possible that the >> permissions for the home directory got fouled up at some point. So, from the >> console: >> >> $ sudo chown -R username.username /home/username/ >> $ sudo /etc/init.d/kdm restart >> >> and try again. >> > > This happened to me before on Ubuntu. I was testing piklab and > use sudo/gksudo and somehow one file related to X (I believe it was > .Xauthority) would have the wrong permission. The I was locked > out of X. > > The "kdm" in "$ sudo /etc/init.d/kdm restart" may need to change > to "gdm" since by default Ubuntu is using gdm. I was actually using > "Ctrl-Alt-Backspace" to restart gdm. > > Xiaofan >

On 12/4/07, Xiaofan Chen <RemoveMExiaofancEraseMEEraseMEgmail.com> wrote: > On 12/4/07, Carl Denk <RemoveMEcdenkspam_OUTKILLspamalltel.net> wrote: > > 4: Now the Kubuntu login responds the same to the 3 users > > avaiable there, the brief blank screen followed by return to the > > login screen. Entry of an incorrect password does trigger the > > red message. > > On 12/4/07, Shawn Tan <RemoveMEshawn.tanTakeThisOuTspamaeste.net> wrote: > > I felt that the fastest way to solve it was to re-install. It probably takes > > less than 30 minutes to do so. It may take you longer to try various > > solutions that people suggest here, and then report back results, and try > > again. > > > > Now I agree that re-install is the best way. And avoid Kubuntu. I think > Ubuntu/Gnome is better. If you want, maybe you can use the old > 6.06 LTS version, it is pretty stable and seems to have less problem > compared to 7.10. > Fiesty is 7.04 and during the time I ran it, it seems to be quite ok. Sorry I can not really remember the fancy name of Ubuntu (a strange name itself). Xiaofan

On Tuesday 04 December 2007 04:52:57 Xiaofan Chen wrote: > Now I agree that re-install is the best way. And avoid Kubuntu. I think > Ubuntu/Gnome is better. If you want, maybe you can use the old > 6.06 LTS version, it is pretty stable and seems to have less problem > with 7.10. Yes, if sudo setup is also broken, then, it's better to just re-install. I've been using Kubuntu since feisty. I can say that gutsy's original release was worse off than feisty's. It was horribly unstable. But after all the patching up, it's actually nice now. I felt that gutsy was a rushed job at getting a release out the window. There were lots of complaints from users about it. I guess Ubuntu probably wanted to build on the momentum with Dell but ended up pushing out a less polished product. Cheers. -- with metta, Shawn Tan Aeste Works (M) Sdn Bhd - Engineering Elegance http://www.aeste.net

Not sure sudo is broken, might have been at root. With regards to update, with Kubuntu running off harddrive after the fresh install, there was an update button at the top right of the screen, just clicked, and a windows update sort of thing happened automatically. With the live cd, there isn't a button with that function on screen, and doesn't seem to be a menu pick either. From Kubuntu login screen did CTL-ALT- Backspace logged into root did an update and upgrade, but no change. I had same problem with a Gutsy fresh install that I did 4 months or so ago, all of a sudden there was a password screen, and couldn't get further. After tinkering with it a few days, I went on to other priorities, and just was getting back to it, by doing a fresh install. Not a good track record, 2 fresh installs, different versions, same problem. :( Just reading on the Ubuntu forum, about keeping Windows files out of Linux install partition. This is a FAT32 partition, and not NTFS. Is there only one FAT for this partition? Or does each OS have it's own, and can write to the same sector which would be corruption? I had planned to put this install on it's own partition, but somewhere had missed the opportunity in the install which I now have instructions for. If each OS has it's own FAT, then I think it possible that I corrupted the installation, maybe twice the same way. :~ Also was reading where to be able to share data, both OS's need a utility to convert file systems. This is starting to get complicated :( Thinking of doing a fresh install to a dedicated to Ubuntu partition, and if that becomes a problem, it's just like "Cash Cab", 3 strikes and you are out. Shawn Tan wrote: {Quote hidden}> On Tuesday 04 December 2007 04:52:57 Xiaofan Chen wrote: > >> Now I agree that re-install is the best way. And avoid Kubuntu. I think >> Ubuntu/Gnome is better. If you want, maybe you can use the old >> 6.06 LTS version, it is pretty stable and seems to have less problem >> with 7.10. >> > > Yes, if sudo setup is also broken, then, it's better to just re-install. I've > been using Kubuntu since feisty. I can say that gutsy's original release was > worse off than feisty's. It was horribly unstable. But after all the patching > up, it's actually nice now. > > I felt that gutsy was a rushed job at getting a release out the window. There > were lots of complaints from users about it. I guess Ubuntu probably wanted > to build on the momentum with Dell but ended up pushing out a less polished > product. > > Cheers. > >

On Tuesday 04 December 2007 16:25:39 Carl Denk wrote: > Just reading on the Ubuntu forum, about keeping Windows files out of > Linux install partition. This is a FAT32 partition, and not NTFS. Is > there only one FAT for this partition? Or does each OS have it's own, > and can write to the same sector which would be corruption? I had > planned to put this install on it's own partition, but somewhere had > missed the opportunity in the install which I now have instructions for. > If each OS has it's own FAT, then I think it possible that I corrupted > the installation, maybe twice the same way. :~ If you had installed Ubuntu on a FAT partition, that would explain all the problems. By default FAT, is mounted under the root user and this would prevent any other user from writing to it. So, KDE wouldn't be able to launch, neither would Gnome. If you wish to run both Windows + Linux on the same computer, I would recommend virtualisation. It's much easier to manage. Assuming that you already have a windows installation, you can just use VMWare. Cheers. -- with metta, Shawn Tan Aeste Works (M) Sdn Bhd - Engineering Elegance http://www.aeste.net

As I understand, with VMWare, I need a copy (legal of course) of windows, which also means keeping it up to date and keeping up with windows fixing, etc. Was hoping to go the WINE route and what I needed to do in the Windows world I could do. With Vista voiding the upgrade XP registration, if I bought Vista, I would still end up with WINME on 2nd computer But how do you explain KDE did work for maybe a dozen boots? Shawn Tan wrote: {Quote hidden}> On Tuesday 04 December 2007 16:25:39 Carl Denk wrote: > >> Just reading on the Ubuntu forum, about keeping Windows files out of >> Linux install partition. This is a FAT32 partition, and not NTFS. Is >> there only one FAT for this partition? Or does each OS have it's own, >> and can write to the same sector which would be corruption? I had >> planned to put this install on it's own partition, but somewhere had >> missed the opportunity in the install which I now have instructions for. >> If each OS has it's own FAT, then I think it possible that I corrupted >> the installation, maybe twice the same way. :~ >> > > If you had installed Ubuntu on a FAT partition, that would explain all the > problems. By default FAT, is mounted under the root user and this would > prevent any other user from writing to it. So, KDE wouldn't be able to > launch, neither would Gnome. > > If you wish to run both Windows + Linux on the same computer, I would > recommend virtualisation. It's much easier to manage. Assuming that you > already have a windows installation, you can just use VMWare. > > Cheers. > >

On Tuesday 04 December 2007 16:58:35 Carl Denk wrote: > As I understand, with VMWare, I need a copy (legal of course) of > windows, which also means keeping it up to date and keeping up with > windows fixing, etc. Was hoping to go the WINE route and what I needed > to do in the Windows world I could do. It's quite possible to run _many_ Windows software with WINE. But WINE is certainly not as trivial to use as it may seem, though it's come a long way and is quite stable. > But how do you explain KDE did work for maybe a dozen boots? If it was installed in a FAT partition, it shouldn't be possible for the user account to login after a system reboot, if KDE needed to write anything into the ~/.kde directory. Anyway, I would recommend that, before you do any other re-installations, you should read up on the basics of Linux. If you're coming from a non-Unix world, there is a fairly steep learning curve. Lots of concepts are very different from the Windows world. And, it might be a good idea to get a spare machine, and follow an online installation guide to a tee, and slowly, learn to work from there. Cheers. -- with metta, Shawn Tan Aeste Works (M) Sdn Bhd - Engineering Elegance http://www.aeste.net

Hi Carl, These just seem like the normal pains that a percentage of users have when going from one operating system to another, be it Windows, MacOS or Linux. Poking around is good, but if you do too much of it, be prepared for a broken system(see recent article in The Onion, "Scientists Isolate Area of Brain That Doesn't Like Poking"). And why do updates? If you have this system around just to learn about Linux, you don't need every package to be updated, it's just a waste of time and falls under the brain poking rule. And don't use a root account on (K)Ubuntu unless you really know what you're doing - use sudo instead, that's what you're supposed to do. I'm not surprised your system is broken, you're swinging wildly with powerful weapons. Just my two cents, and with the best intentions. Learning about Linux is a good thing, but please don't get discouraged, and be prepared to break it a few times until you get good at brain surgery. I have only gotten good enough to know what to avoid messing with. Cheerful regards, Bob --- Carl Denk <EraseMEcdenkspamspamBeGonealltel.net> wrote: {Quote hidden}> Not sure sudo is broken, might have been at root. > With regards to > update, with Kubuntu running off harddrive after the > fresh install, > there was an update button at the top right of the > screen, just clicked, > and a windows update sort of thing happened > automatically. With the live > cd, there isn't a button with that function on > screen, and doesn't seem > to be a menu pick either. > > From Kubuntu login screen did CTL-ALT- Backspace > logged into root > did an update and upgrade, but no change. > > > I had same problem with a Gutsy fresh install that I > did 4 months or so > ago, all of a sudden there was a password screen, > and couldn't get > further. After tinkering with it a few days, I went > on to other > priorities, and just was getting back to it, by > doing a fresh install. > Not a good track record, 2 fresh installs, different > versions, same > problem. :( > > Just reading on the Ubuntu forum, about keeping > Windows files out of > Linux install partition. This is a FAT32 partition, > and not NTFS. Is > there only one FAT for this partition? Or does each > OS have it's own, > and can write to the same sector which would be > corruption? I had > planned to put this install on it's own partition, > but somewhere had > missed the opportunity in the install which I now > have instructions for. > If each OS has it's own FAT, then I think it > possible that I corrupted > the installation, maybe twice the same way. :~ > > Also was reading where to be able to share data, > both OS's need a > utility to convert file systems. This is starting to > get complicated :( > > Thinking of doing a fresh install to a dedicated to > Ubuntu partition, > and if that becomes a problem, it's just like "Cash > Cab", 3 strikes and > you are out. > > Shawn Tan wrote: > > On Tuesday 04 December 2007 04:52:57 Xiaofan Chen > wrote: > > > >> Now I agree that re-install is the best way. And > avoid Kubuntu. I think > >> Ubuntu/Gnome is better. If you want, maybe you > can use the old > >> 6.06 LTS version, it is pretty stable and seems > to have less problem > >> with 7.10. > >> > > > > Yes, if sudo setup is also broken, then, it's > better to just re-install. I've > > been using Kubuntu since feisty. I can say that > gutsy's original release was > > worse off than feisty's. It was horribly unstable. > But after all the patching > > up, it's actually nice now. > > > > I felt that gutsy was a rushed job at getting a > release out the window. There > > were lots of complaints from users about it. I > guess Ubuntu probably wanted > > to build on the momentum with Dell but ended up > pushing out a less polished > > product. > > > > Cheers. > > > > > --

The last I heard was it was somewhat not stable, but within the last hours, my opinion is changing. Going to try that. As root, I as last resort chasing some items from the Kubuntu forum where the thought was the video setup was messed up, think I did the install is messed up beyond help. As I write the other PC is downloading EX2IFS to access the Ubuntu files from XP. Plan to uninstall the current, format the partition originally planned for Linux to the Unbuntu standard, and do a fresh install there, probably going to go to current version of Kubuntu, since it's closest to XP. Thanks again for the help. :) Bob Blick wrote: {Quote hidden}>> You can however have FAT32 partitions to share the >> file between >> Linux and Windows. >> > > Why bother? NTFS is accessible from Linux r/w with all > newer kernels. See fs-driver.org for the device driver > for Windows Ext2/3. Read/write, with a drive letter, > just like any other partition. > > Cheerful regards, > > Bob > >

The NTFS driver in the kernel is stable, and won't get into any trouble(won't attempt to do anything it can't do reliably). It doesn't support all features. NTFS-3G does support NTFS fully and there are Ubuntu packages. And Captive-NTFS was what I used to use and although it's (relatively) slow it is a wrapper for the Microsoft driver so it is also reliable and supports NTFS fully. Cheerful regards, Bob --- Carl Denk <cdenkSTOPspamspam_OUTalltel.net> wrote: {Quote hidden}> The last I heard was it was somewhat not stable, but > within the last > hours, my opinion is changing. Going to try that. As > root, I as last > resort chasing some items from the Kubuntu forum > where the thought was > the video setup was messed up, think I did the > install is messed up > beyond help. As I write the other PC is downloading > EX2IFS to access the > Ubuntu files from XP. Plan to uninstall the current, > format the > partition originally planned for Linux to the > Unbuntu standard, and do a > fresh install there, probably going to go to > current version of > Kubuntu, since it's closest to XP. > > Thanks again for the help. :) > > Bob Blick wrote: > >> You can however have FAT32 partitions to share > the > >> file between > >> Linux and Windows. > >> > > > > Why bother? NTFS is accessible from Linux r/w with > all > > newer kernels. See fs-driver.org for the device > driver > > for Windows Ext2/3. Read/write, with a drive > letter, > > just like any other partition. > > > > Cheerful regards, > > > > Bob > > > > > --

On Dec 4, 2007, at 6:17 PM, Bob Blick wrote: > The NTFS driver in the kernel is stable, and won't get > into any trouble(won't attempt to do anything it can't > do reliably). It doesn't support all features. NTFS-3G > does support NTFS fully and there are Ubuntu packages. Which kernel is that? Last I heard, the NTFS in the proper Linux kernel (from kernel.org) had read-only support. Many distros rip it out and REPLACE it with other NTFS sources. Be cautious and VERY specific when you talk about NTFS in the kernel, and make sure the kernel's not patched by the distro. That said, no open-source group is ever going to claim "full" NTFS support because it's simply not documented by Microsoft. Far simpler to just say (forever) that it's "unstable" and you could lose data. No liability then. But with all that said -- Every time I've tried any of the Linux NTFS things -- they've worked fine and caused zero problems. There's a certain side of everyone that knows the people developing it wouldn't be using it themselves if it didn't work properly. Of course, I also know how to regularly take these old-fashioned things called backups... heh... so it doesn't worry me too much to mount a filesystem and look at it, or even write to it... there's always a safety-net. (GRIN) > And Captive-NTFS was what I used to use and although > it's (relatively) slow it is a wrapper for the > Microsoft driver so it is also reliable and supports > NTFS fully. Haven't played with that one, but that sure seems like a good way to go about it, if you don't need speed. Use Microsoft's own drivers and then live with whatever bugs THEY created. (Since you know there must be some in there -- somewhere. Ever see bug-free OS software? Heh.) For the original poster planning to use NTFS -- you really need to find the documentation on whatever YOUR distro uses... see if they modify the stock Linux kernel. Know something about the different kernel versions and any bugs associated with NTFS support in each, and then apply that knowledge to whatever kernel your particular distro chooses to use to assess your level of risk. This is similar to anything else proprietary patched into the Linux kernel... odd-ball hardware drivers, especially. Basically if it's not written by the kernel.org folks... you have less confidence in it. But they're known to release some pretty nasty bugs too... that's where distros come in -- they add another check-and-balance and typically won't put a bad kernel into a full release of their distro. But the distros have different personalities and may or may not include things that are not from a stock kernel. If it's not in the stock kernel source... it's a "risk" your distro has chosen to take. You can always load build and use stock kernels and use those, if you're a purist (I'm certainly not... distros also often FIX bugs in the kernel and send those bugfixes upstream for inclusion in later kernels). Basically Linux is a game of "how much do you trust the distro package maintainers to do sane things?" -- always has been. Same game as "how much do you trust the coders that write closed-source operating systems?", only different in practice. In one game, you monitor heavily and have the source if you really need to know. In the other game, you trust and have a business relationship where you can (in theory) sue software manufacturer for damages. (Well, not really -- Microsoft's EULA would prohibit it, but you could try.) At least there's a small chance there was a third party code review of any particular snippet of code in Linux. There's zero chance anyone other than Microsoft touches their code... In the end, if it works, use it. No one's cracked the secret to coders not turning out more bugs in every single release they make. All that really happens in this industry is that the bugs get more subtle and complex. They never really go away. -- Nate Duehr KILLspamnatespamBeGonenatetech.com

Nate Duehr wrote: > On Dec 4, 2007, at 6:17 PM, Bob Blick wrote: > >> The NTFS driver in the kernel is stable, and won't get >> into any trouble(won't attempt to do anything it can't >> do reliably). It doesn't support all features. NTFS-3G >> does support NTFS fully and there are Ubuntu packages. > > Which kernel is that? Last I heard, the NTFS in the proper Linux > kernel (from kernel.org) had read-only support. Many distros rip it > out and REPLACE it with other NTFS sources. > > Be cautious and VERY specific when you talk about NTFS in the kernel, > and make sure the kernel's not patched by the distro. Naw, I'm just talking :) This is the piclist, not Linus' list, where I would be careful. I'm cautious and specific talking about PICs on this list. That being said, the NTFS driver built into the kernel can definitely write, although it may not be able to create files. And it is to a point where it does not damage the filesystem when it writes. But I have only used it to read. To write, use NTFS-3G or Captive-NTFS. Cheerful regards, Bob

On 12/5/07, Nate Duehr <@spam@nate@spam@spam_OUTnatetech.com> wrote: > > On Dec 4, 2007, at 11:13 PM, Bob Blick wrote: > > > That being said, the NTFS driver built into the kernel can definitely > > write, although it may not be able to create files. And it is to a > > point where it does not damage the filesystem when it writes. > > But I have only used it to read. To write, use NTFS-3G or > > Captive-NTFS. > > Which kernel? Version number. That's my point. :-) > www.linux-ntfs.org/doku.php?id=driverroadmap http://www.linux-ntfs.org/doku.php?id=status Write support is very limited for the kernel driver. Or from kernel documentation (say 2.6.23) Eg: the vanilla Linux kernel V2.6.23 http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/filesystems/ntfs.txt Overview ======== Linux-NTFS comes with a number of user-space programs known as ntfsprogs.These include mkntfs, a full-featured ntfs filesystem format utility, ntfsundelete used for recovering files that were unintentionally deleted from an NTFS volume and ntfsresize which is used to resize an NTFS partition. See the web site for more information. To mount an NTFS 1.2/3.x (Windows NT4/2000/XP/2003) volume, use the file system type 'ntfs'. The driver currently supports read-only mode (with no fault-tolerance, encryption or journalling) and very limited, but safe, write support. For fault tolerance and raid support (i.e. volume and stripe sets), you can use the kernel's Software RAID / MD driver. See section "Using Software RAID with NTFS" for details. ... ================