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PICList Thread
'[EE] Just bought some carbide bits & making a dril'
2009\07\28@023313 by solarwind

picon face
I just bought some carbide bits from ebay. They're not too expensive (I
think)
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150350480017&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:CA:1123.
The bits are 1/32" with 1/8" shank. Fit perfectly in my Dremel. I'm
going to make a very simple drill press like this:
http://www.instructables.com/id/PCB-Drill-Press-Using-Salvaged-Door-Hinges/
using a few pieces of scrap wood and door hinges (I'm going to look for
the ones which don't wiggle around). I calculated the amount of
horizontal movement for the bit. For a 1" vertical motion, the net max
horizontal movement for the bit is around 1 mm. Of course, the PCB is
very thin, and vertical movement a lot less than 1" is required -
resulting in very very small horizontal movement for the drill bit.
Therefore, this design seems to be effective for my purpose. I hope this
works out.

Note: my Dremel has a top speed of around 30 000 RPM - should do the
trick nicely. Also, I'm going to buy the thinner 1/32" FR4 copper board
(as opposed to the 1/16" FR4 copper board that I have now). Easier to
cut, easier to drill, more flexible and cheaper.

I wonder why paper phenolic boards are so hard to come by these days...
I bet they're easier to drill and much less of a hassle for hobbyists.


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4283 (20090727) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


2009\07\28@023546 by solarwind

picon face
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:33 AM, solarwind<spam_OUTx.solarwind.xTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4283 (20090727) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com

Whoops - forgot to turn off stupid antivirus integration...

2009\07\28@025422 by solarwind

picon face
I just bought some carbide bits from ebay. They're not too expensive (I
think)
cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150350480017&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:CA:1123.
The bits are 1/32" with 1/8" shank. Fit perfectly in my Dremel. I'm
going to make a very simple drill press like this:
www.instructables.com/id/PCB-Drill-Press-Using-Salvaged-Door-Hinges/
using a few pieces of scrap wood and door hinges (I'm going to look for
the ones which don't wiggle around). I calculated the amount of
horizontal movement for the bit. For a 1" vertical motion, the net max
horizontal movement for the bit is around 1 mm. Of course, the PCB is
very thin, and vertical movement a lot less than 1" is required -
resulting in very very small horizontal movement for the drill bit.
Therefore, this design seems to be effective for my purpose. I hope this
works out.

Note: my Dremel has a top speed of around 30 000 RPM - should do the
trick nicely. Also, I'm going to buy the thinner 1/32" FR4 copper board
(as opposed to the 1/16" FR4 copper board that I have now). Easier to
cut, easier to drill, more flexible and cheaper.

I wonder why paper phenolic boards are so hard to come by these days...
I bet they're easier to drill and much less of a hassle for hobbyists.

2009\07\28@030118 by solarwind

picon face
Client issues... please ignore

2009\07\28@090442 by Carl Denk

flavicon
face
I wouldn't use hinges, but the horizontal from the back to the front, a
pair of 2" to 3" wide x 1/4" or 3/8" wide plywood strips. Outer face
grain should be parallel to long sides. Glue blocks all corners to back
vertical. At the Dremel, a piece of all thread (#10 or 1/4" size) to
clamp Dremel in position. The plywood will bend under light pressure,
but will be exact location horizontally which you need. Even very slight
slop in hinges will be magnified by the length of the arm. If using
hinges, need 2 pair, and at each elevation the pair should be spread out
say a foot to minimize location issues. Also would need need a spring,
that the plywood acts as.  :)  Think there was a picture of this setup a
week ago.

solarwind wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2009\07\28@092836 by Picbits Sales

flavicon
face
Personally I'd use some ball race drawer slides maybe with a return spring
to allow the Dremel to go back up after you've pushed it down. They have
around 0.1mm slack in them if you get some semi decent ones and will set you
back a couple of your strange $ each

I've got a stack of precision ones here I got at a good price when I was
intending to use them to make a basic CNC machine but went to proper linear
rails and bearings in the end.

Dom
{Original Message removed}

2009\07\28@111734 by SME

picon face
> I just bought some carbide bits from ebay. They're not too expensive (I
> think)

FYI: Carbide bits are extremely unforgiving of flexure - bend them a
little and they cease to exist. Steel bits are far less sensitive but
wear much faster.


   R

2009\07\28@113942 by Carl Denk

flavicon
face
And that's why I think big drill presses or hinges on DYI are not a good
idea. No perceivable movement horizontally is acceptable :)

SME wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2009\07\28@141905 by solarwind

picon face
--0016361e84480443a6046fc81bce
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Picbits Sales<.....salesKILLspamspam@spam@picbits.co.uk> wrote:
> I've got a stack of precision ones here I got at a good price when I was
> intending to use them to make a basic CNC machine but went to proper linear
> rails and bearings in the end.

That was my second option. You think they sell linear rails and
bearings in Home Depot or some place like that? I know I used to have
an old inkjet printer, but I can't find it anywhere. My Idea was to
use two linear rails in parallel running vertically OR 3 rails running
vertically at the vertices of a triangle with some wood at the
bearings to support a Dremel. Can't find any linear rails anywhere
though. Or maybe something like this:
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/326/drillpress.png (and attached
for the people that don't like clicking random links (Olin)).

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2009\07\28@143123 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
At 07:04 AM 7/28/2009, Carl Denk wrote:
>I wouldn't use hinges, but the horizontal from the back to the front, a
>pair of 2" to 3" wide x 1/4" or 3/8" wide plywood strips.

I posted a text description a couple weeks ago of a very simple
parallelogram-style drill press much like the one that Solarwind
linked to (Instructables web-site).

I was going through some old notes and see another, even simpler
drill-press suitable for a Dremel tool that I had played with many years ago.

Measure the distance from the front of your workbench to the
back.  Cut a piece of 1 X 4 wood to about 2" less than that
length.  You can use a strip of 1/2" plywood 2" to 3" wide instead of
real wood if that's what you have handy.

Near one end (1" - 1.25" away), drill a hole very slightly smaller
than the diameter of the Dremel tool's nose-piece.  That's the
plastic nut that you would unscrew and remove if you were to add a
flex-shaft to the Dremel tool.  Cut a slot from the end of the wood
through to the hole you just drilled, then drill a small hole
suitable for a screw to clamp the slot shut.  The idea is to stick
the Dremel tool through the hole in the piece of wood and clamp it tight.

Now grab a short piece of 2 X 4 perhaps 4" long.  Screw it cross-wise
to the end of the wood strip opposite the Dremel tool.  Now just
screw or clamp that whole assembly to the back of the workbench such
that the Dremel tool is sitting near the front of the bench.  The
collet should be perhaps an inch and a half above the surface of the
bench.  Cut down the height of the 2 X 4 if you have to.

You want to adjust the height of the 2 X 4 such that the tip of the
drill bit is sitting 1/4" or so above the sacrificial surface that
the PCB will be sitting on (on top of the workbench surface).  You
*do* want a sacrificial surface to drill into so as to not wreck the
bench-top.  Just set the PCB on top of that material - tape it down
if you want.  It should slide around easily.

Using it is simplicity itself: just push down on the wood strip and
the drill bit goes through the PCB material.  Let go, and the natural
springiness of the board lifts the Dremel tool back out of the PCB.

You will note that the travel of the drill bit describes a very
shallow arc as it moves.  That is simply not a problem, assuming that
the wood strip is somewhere near 34" or so long.

Assuming that you have suitable wood scraps handy, this shouldn't
take more than a few minutes to build.  It has the distinct advantage
that there absolutely NO movement of the drill bit either sideways or
front-to-back, only up and down.  Its also about as inexpensive as you can get.

Hope this helps!

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid   <dwaynerspamKILLspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2009\07\28@143129 by Marcel Birthelmer

picon face
> That was my second option. You think they sell linear rails and
> bearings in Home Depot or some place like that?

You should be able to find ones meant for drawers and such. Another
option would be rackmount rails that you should be able to get from a
decent computer store. But neither of these options are
high-precision, really.

2009\07\28@145702 by solarwind

picon face
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Marcel
Birthelmer<.....marcelb.listsKILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:
> You should be able to find ones meant for drawers and such. Another
> option would be rackmount rails that you should be able to get from a
> decent computer store. But neither of these options are
> high-precision, really.

I found that the ones that are in inkjet printers are really high
precision. I'm looking for something like that. But anything to get
the job done will suffice (hold my Dremel straight for drilling with
carbide bits).

2009\07\28@151629 by Picbits Sales

flavicon
face
I'm from the UK I'm afraid - not got a clue.

Dom
----- Original Message -----
From: "solarwind" <EraseMEx.solarwind.xspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com>


> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Picbits Sales<salesspamspam_OUTpicbits.co.uk> wrote:
>> I've got a stack of precision ones here I got at a good price when I was
>> intending to use them to make a basic CNC machine but went to proper
>> linear
>> rails and bearings in the end.
>
> That was my second option. You think they sell linear rails and
> bearings in Home Depot or some place like that? I know I used to have

2009\07\28@151958 by peter green

flavicon
face

> I wonder why paper phenolic boards are so hard to come by these days...
> I bet they're easier to drill and much less of a hassle for hobbyists.
Much easier to drill and cut but also much easier to inadvertantly
break. I don't think PTH works very well on them either (though thats
not really an issue for hobbyists).

2009\07\28@153523 by Carl Denk

flavicon
face
This is the one I was thinking about. Just would add something in
tension between the 2 arms close to the Dremel to wedge it in. Doesn't
have to be anything heavy, 3/16" rod (#10 screw size) would be more than
enough. The plywood thickness should be fairly thin, so light finger
pressure will cause 1/2" vertical movement maximum. Literally want to
tap your finger to drill a hole. There are very many holes to drill,
don't want to wear out the fingers on drilling holes. :)

Dwayne Reid wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2009\07\28@154018 by Carl Denk
flavicon
face
If you use vertical rails, they need substantial support to prevent
horizontal movement. Unless you get into precision rails, there will be
looseness, which these small bits can't tolerate. A spring will be
needed to minimize feed force and provide return to unused position.

Picbits Sales wrote:
> I'm from the UK I'm afraid - not got a clue.
>
> Dom
> {Original Message removed}

2009\07\28@164932 by Jinx

face picon face
> ball race drawer slides maybe with a return spring

Printer carriages have very good guide rails and transports. So do
5 1/4" floppy drives. And both good enough to mechanise with a
small motor I reckon, if you want push-button drilling

2009\07\28@174402 by Philip Pemberton

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peter green wrote:
>> I wonder why paper phenolic boards are so hard to come by these days...
>> I bet they're easier to drill and much less of a hassle for hobbyists.
> Much easier to drill and cut but also much easier to inadvertantly
> break. I don't think PTH works very well on them either (though thats
> not really an issue for hobbyists).

They also make the entire lab smell like rotten eggs when you cut or
drill them... That and they're far too easy to inadvertently snap or
crack, and when that happens you pretty much get to scrap the board.

Much easier to use a tougher substrate than play games with FR2 (SRBP,
paper phenolic, whatever).

--
Phil.
@spam@piclistKILLspamspamphilpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/

2009\07\28@181929 by solarwind

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On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Jinx<KILLspamjoecolquittKILLspamspamclear.net.nz> wrote:
> Printer carriages have very good guide rails and transports. So do
> 5 1/4" floppy drives. And both good enough to mechanise with a
> small motor I reckon, if you want push-button drilling

Yeah, just took a trip to my hardware store. The door hinges have a
lot of free play on them. No good for this. The drawer slides are
loose as well. I'm just waiting for someone to throw out an inkjet or
something.

2009\07\28@184631 by Marcel Birthelmer

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On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, solarwind<RemoveMEx.solarwind.xTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Jinx<spamBeGonejoecolquittspamBeGonespamclear.net.nz> wrote:
>> Printer carriages have very good guide rails and transports. So do
>> 5 1/4" floppy drives. And both good enough to mechanise with a
>> small motor I reckon, if you want push-button drilling
>
> Yeah, just took a trip to my hardware store. The door hinges have a
> lot of free play on them. No good for this. The drawer slides are
> loose as well. I'm just waiting for someone to throw out an inkjet or
> something.
> --

Might be kind of a stretch, but what about the mechanism in a scissor jack?
- Marcel

2009\07\28@184836 by Marcel Duchamp

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solarwind wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Jinx<TakeThisOuTjoecolquittEraseMEspamspam_OUTclear.net.nz> wrote:
>> Printer carriages have very good guide rails and transports. So do
>> 5 1/4" floppy drives. And both good enough to mechanise with a
>> small motor I reckon, if you want push-button drilling
>
> Yeah, just took a trip to my hardware store. The door hinges have a
> lot of free play on them. No good for this. The drawer slides are
> loose as well. I'm just waiting for someone to throw out an inkjet or
> something.

Don't wait, act now and an inkjet can be yours!

Where I live there is a recycling center where people can drop off
computers, monitors, printers etc for free.  I took a six pack of beer
in to the guys and asked if I could rummage around a bit.  If you have a
town dump, landfill or recycling center, check it out.  Tell them you
have school project and need some old dead junk.

2009\07\28@192831 by Jinx

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> Where I live there is a recycling center where people can drop
> off computers, monitors, printers etc for free

Absolutely. If I had a mind to I could easily fill the car with throw-
outs. Local repair shops are likely to have all sorts of goodies in
the back destined for the bin. So much is unrepairable now of
course that even the most minor fault (if anyone even bothered to
look for it that is) is enough to turn an appliance into instant scrap

A printer would be ideal. You've got the carriage, belt, motor,
driver and power supply. Individually they would be expensive
but a fantastic deal as free rubbish

2009\07\28@193937 by Peter Loron

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On Jul 28, 2009, at 3:19 PM, solarwind wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Jinx<RemoveMEjoecolquittspamTakeThisOuTclear.net.nz> wrote:
>> Printer carriages have very good guide rails and transports. So do
>> 5 1/4" floppy drives. And both good enough to mechanise with a
>> small motor I reckon, if you want push-button drilling
>
> Yeah, just took a trip to my hardware store. The door hinges have a
> lot of free play on them. No good for this. The drawer slides are
> loose as well. I'm just waiting for someone to throw out an inkjet or
> something.

Check to see if craigslist is active in your area...often a great  
source of free stuff like that. Also, check in the phone book for  
electronic waste recyclers. They may have stuff you can get for free  
or very cheap.

-Pete

2009\07\28@215744 by Bob Blick

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part 0 44 bytes
his is a multi-part message in MIME format.
part 1 731 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii (decoded 7bit)

Jinx wrote:
>
> Printer carriages have very good guide rails and transports. So do
> 5 1/4" floppy drives. And both good enough to mechanise with a
> small motor I reckon, if you want push-button drilling
>

Funny you should mention it, a long long time ago I made a PCB drill
press with the slide from a 5 1/4" floppy drive. I put a knob on the
back end of the stepper motor shaft to do the up-and-down, used the
spinner motor from a daisywheel printer to do the drilling, the chuck
was guts of a panel-mount locking 1/8" milspec potentiometer. I still
use it, only ever broke a drill bit if I did something stupid. Attached
is a picture.

Cheerful regards,

Bob


part 2 17916 bytes content-type:image/jpeg; (decode)


part 3 35 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
(decoded 7bit)

2009\07\28@222552 by solarwind

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On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Bob Blick<bobblickEraseMEspam.....ftml.net> wrote:
> Funny you should mention it, a long long time ago I made a PCB drill
> press with the slide from a 5 1/4" floppy drive. I put a knob on the
> back end of the stepper motor shaft to do the up-and-down, used the
> spinner motor from a daisywheel printer to do the drilling, the chuck
> was guts of a panel-mount locking 1/8" milspec potentiometer. I still
> use it, only ever broke a drill bit if I did something stupid. Attached
> is a picture.

That is so cool!

2009\07\28@222837 by Tony Vandiver

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very cool

Bob Blick wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2009\07\28@231231 by Vitaliy

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Indeed. For various reasons, I am mechanically inept and Bob's homemade
drill looks totally amazing to me.

Would Bob be so kind as to provide a hi-res pic? :)


Tony Vandiver wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2009\07\28@234450 by solarwind

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On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Vitaliy<EraseMEpiclistspammaksimov.org> wrote:
> Indeed. For various reasons, I am mechanically inept and Bob's homemade
> drill looks totally amazing to me.
>
> Would Bob be so kind as to provide a hi-res pic? :)

Or make one for me?

2009\07\29@003412 by Jinx

face picon face
> Funny you should mention it

Great minds eh Bob ?

> I put a knob on the back end of the stepper motor shaft to do the
> up-and-down

That's just what I was thinking of re 'push-button drilling'. If the
stepper was driven, it could be activated with a foot pedal. Go
down with a press, automatic return up on release. Although a
floppy stepper is intended to move as a stepper, and a screw
drive would be more like a linear movement for drilling. Actually,
that's pretty much the mechanism in a 3.5" drive. And to drill you
really don't need more than a few mm travel

You've inspired me to perhaps do something with that box of old
drives under that house

2009\07\29@050226 by Picbits Sales

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Solarwind - try Freecycle - http://www.freecycle.org

There are millions of people on there all requesting and giving away stuff.

Its all FREE !!!!!

Dom
{Original Message removed}

2009\07\29@061918 by Bob Blick

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Vitaliy wrote:
> Indeed. For various reasons, I am mechanically inept and Bob's homemade
> drill looks totally amazing to me.
>
> Would Bob be so kind as to provide a hi-res pic? :)

Here is a bigger image:

http://www.rodentpark.com/crappe/img_3065_web_large.jpg

I just messed with the DNS info so if the picture doesn't show up, try
again in a few hours.

Cheerful regards,

Bob

2009\07\29@104458 by Tony Smith

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> > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Jinx<RemoveMEjoecolquittEraseMEspamEraseMEclear.net.nz> wrote:
> >> Printer carriages have very good guide rails and transports. So do
> >> 5 1/4" floppy drives. And both good enough to mechanise with a
> >> small motor I reckon, if you want push-button drilling
> >
> > Yeah, just took a trip to my hardware store. The door hinges have a
> > lot of free play on them. No good for this. The drawer slides are
> > loose as well. I'm just waiting for someone to throw out an inkjet or
> > something.
> > --
>
> Might be kind of a stretch, but what about the mechanism in a scissor
jack?
> - Marcel


All too complicated.  Take two planks, say a metre long, with one about
50-100mm longer than the other.  Put the short one on top, and put hinges at
one end to join them together.  (Wider boards are better, less sideways
movement.)  Hinges should be tight-ish rather than loose-ish.

Clamp the Dremel to the short top bit, and put the PCB on the lower.  You
need some way to lift the top bit up so the drill bit clears (spring, bungee
cord).

Hold the PCB in one hand, pull the top board with the other and there's your
hole.  Rinse, lathe, repeat.  The idea is that the drill actually travels in
an arc, but the distance is so small (a few mm) that it doesn't matter.

Very old idea apparently.  I've seen one version where the boards were
triangular with the Dremel at the tip.  Lots of hinges at the triangle base
removed any play.

Tony

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