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'[EE] Internship E'
2007\03\27@050129 by Yigit Turgut

picon face
Hi list,

I am interested in doing my 3rd internship in Japan or USA.Since I
know what is going on in Europe, I thought I could give it a shot and
get a different approach and see how these guys are doing in my
field.I know that there are companies working specificly on these
kinds of trainee matching stuff but most of them are not able to
arrange a detailed and well researched engineering internship.I have
both practical and theoretical background on IT/IS topics beneath my
EE skills and I do have a company specialized on ethical
hacking,penetration testing and reverse engineering.I prefer to work
on DSP,mixed-signal IC,PSoC,microcontrollers and embedded systems.I
have work experience abroad both geographically and cultural.Personal
details and other necessary information are in my resume which is
supplied upon request.

As a result, where can you recommend ? Anyone experienced on having
engineering internship abroad ? Suggestions  for procedure ?

Thanks

2007\03\28@164030 by Yigit Turgut

picon face
Come on,at least some of you should come up with an opinion relevant ?
This is mit piclist,and the tag is EE -> it's almost impossible that
this post is not being replied.Ohh yea I got it,it's just that you
have personel issues with me (:

2007\03\30@110841 by Martin Klingensmith

picon face
On 3/28/07, Yigit Turgut <spam_OUTy.turgutTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:
>
> Come on,at least some of you should come up with an opinion relevant ?
> This is mit piclist,and the tag is EE -> it's almost impossible that
> this post is not being replied.Ohh yea I got it,it's just that you
> have personel issues with me (:
> -

2007\03\30@114013 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
On 3/27/07, Yigit Turgut <.....y.turgutKILLspamspam@spam@gmail.com> wrote:
> As a result, where can you recommend ?

Don't have any recommendations.

> Anyone experienced on having engineering internship abroad ?

Nope.  Never did an internship at all, nevermind abroad.

> Suggestions  for procedure ?

If people don't respond to a question, instead of assuming that they
know the answer and are purposefully ignoring you, assume one or more
of the following:

1. The question is not clear, concise, or focussed
2. No one has anything helpful to contribute, and you really don't
want to see 2000 "Don't know" responses to every single question on
the list.

You will find, however, that the US (and Canada, but to a lesser
extent) is not as "international" as Europe.  Very few companies
actively put together or support internships meant for those outside
the country.  You may find that your best bet is to do all the
legwork, and apply for a regular internship emphasizing that you'll do
everything required to meet VISA requirements, forms, paperwork, etc.
Still, it's a larger burden on HR than normal, and if they've not done
it before they'll likely refuse simply based on the fact that they
don't have to in order to get interns.

It's not too different from why many companies in the US refuse to
ship internationally.  "We've never done it before, we don't need to
in order to maintain our profitability, and we don't anticipate that
we'll get enough reward to cover the perceived costs and risks."

You might target those companies that are based in Europe of have a
Europoen presence with offices in the US.  Atmel, for instance, would
probably not have this issue.

Good luck!

-Adam

--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Moving in southeast Michigan? Buy my house: http://ubasics.com/house/

Interested in electronics? Check out the projects at http://ubasics.com

Building your own house? Check out http://ubasics.com/home/

2007\03\30@115207 by Yigit Turgut

picon face
Thanks for the reply but I do have USA visa which is valid untill
2009.Guys at BlackHat had supplied it for me in 2006 and I extended it
for a visit.

2007\03\30@120602 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
Well, the stumbling block for me, and perhaps others, was the "abroad"
part.  As that doesn't really seem to be the critical point in the
question, you might broaden your scope by simply asking people for
internship positions they might be aware of.

-Adam

On 3/30/07, Yigit Turgut <y.turgutspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the reply but I do have USA visa which is valid untill
> 2009.Guys at BlackHat had supplied it for me in 2006 and I extended it
> for a visit.
> -

2007\03\30@122608 by Peiserma

flavicon
face
piclist-bounces@mit.edu wrote:
> On 3/28/07, Yigit Turgut <.....y.turgutKILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Come on,at least some of you should come up with an opinion relevant
>> ? This is mit piclist,and the tag is EE -> it's almost impossible
>> that this post is not being replied.Ohh yea I got it,it's just that
>> you have personel issues with me (:
>
> Your post seemed more to brag about what you have done, and you asked
> few real questions. Where to look: any place hiring interns (good
> luck with the visa and all) Engineering internship abroad: The only
> people I know who have done it are ceramic engineers.
> Procedure: Contact a company hiring people and hope they want
> you enough to help you get a visa?

plus your expectation is probably a little high. I don't think it is likely that a lot of people have experience with out-of-country internships. That's a more likely reason no one has responded, rather than people having issues with you.

Also very few emplyers are liable to be interested in the hassle of obtaining a visa for a student. We did this once as a favor to the CTO of a company we bought, for his son. It took several months to obtain said visa. Not the easiest thing in the world.

This is is something you really have to persue on your own if you are interested. Your university might be able to help. But if I were you, I wouldn't get my hopes up due.

Especially not with the attitude "oh, I can't believe no one is helping me, they must not like me" Please take this as constructive criticism. Attitudes like that are a sure way to create those 'personal issues' you complain about.

2007\03\30@124608 by Yigit Turgut

picon face
> Especially not with the attitude "oh, I can't believe no one is helping me, they >must not like me" Please take this as constructive criticism. Attitudes like that >are a sure way to create those 'personal issues' you complain about.

Well, obviously, I wasn't serious about that personal issues
part.There is a "(:" at the end of that post, that is a reverse
smile.And for the record, there is a huge difference between "help"
and "sharing experience".

On the other hand, I don't know what you guys are thinkin of getting
visa for USA but believe me it's really easy if you can show the legal
records of your wealth to the consulate - whole different topic which
is not appropriate to disguss under this tag.

2007\03\30@134455 by Peiserma

flavicon
face
piclist-bounces@mit.edu wrote:
> On the other hand, I don't know what you guys are thinkin of
> getting visa for USA but believe me it's really easy if you
> can show the legal records of your wealth to the consulate

If you wanted a work visa (for example H-1B) you must have at least a bachelor's degree or equivalent. You must have a US-based sponsor. There are only 65,000 per year given, so the availability is quite limited (though I think that number was increased). There are specific wage requirements, and the filing fee is several thousand dollars. I hope you can see why some would consider the work-visa an issue for an intern :)

If you are visiting from an approved visa-waiver country, its easy. However those are limited to 90 days. It's also not a work visa; you can come visit, but not obtain a (legal) job.

I know there are various other types of visas. There are student visas, but I am not sure if those allow you to work here (probably not). But not many people have knowledge of the visa maze (myself included), so when you asked for overseas internship, I bet most people just didn't know.

You did not originally mention you already had a visa. That makes a difference. Why don't you start with the company that helped you obtain it? They are more likely than list members to know of companies that engage overseas interns.


2007\03\30@134634 by Hans Ruopp

flavicon
face
Yigit Turgut wrote:
>> Especially not with the attitude "oh, I can't believe no one is helping me, they >must not like me" Please take this as constructive criticism. Attitudes like that >are a sure way to create those 'personal issues' you complain about.
>>    
>
> Well, obviously, I wasn't serious about that personal issues
> part.There is a "(:" at the end of that post, that is a reverse
> smile.And for the record, there is a huge difference between "help"
> and "sharing experience".
>
> On the other hand, I don't know what you guys are thinkin of getting
> visa for USA but believe me it's really easy if you can show the legal
> records of your wealth to the consulate - whole different topic which
> is not appropriate to disguss under this tag.
>  
Yigit,

Getting a tourist visa to the States is completly different  than
getting one to study or work.

I'm just gonna tell you one thing: You probably know that Swiss citizens
don't need a visa to enter US territory as a tourist but they need to
study or work. Well, not so long ago a swiss citizen had his demand for
a working visa refused by US government even being supported by his US
employer which was an university.

Sorry but IMO it's not that easy as you think, but anyway I wish you
luck and success in your carreer.

Hans



2007\03\30@170253 by olin piclist

face picon face
> plus your expectation is probably a little high. I don't think it is
> likely that a lot of people have experience with out-of-country
> internships. That's a more likely reason no one has responded, rather
> than people having issues with you.

And accusing people of having issues with him demonstrates a attitude
problem when things don't go his way that nobody will want to put up with.
There is no way I would mention him to a customer now that might be looking
for a intern.  Imagine what they'll think of me if he acts up like that on
the job.  No thanks.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2007\03\30@172930 by Mark Rages

face picon face
On 3/30/07, Olin Lathrop <EraseMEolin_piclistspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTembedinc.com> wrote:
> > plus your expectation is probably a little high. I don't think it is
> > likely that a lot of people have experience with out-of-country
> > internships. That's a more likely reason no one has responded, rather
> > than people having issues with you.
>
> And accusing people of having issues with him demonstrates a attitude
> problem when things don't go his way that nobody will want to put up with.
> There is no way I would mention him to a customer now that might be looking
> for a intern.  Imagine what they'll think of me if he acts up like that on
> the job.  No thanks.
>

As someone who's been on the receiving end, I agree.

http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Heat-Energy-transfer-p8400986.html

Is this "ethical hacking"?

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
--
Most of the time,
for most of the world,
no matter how hard people work at it,
nothing of any significance happens.
    -- Weinberg's Law

2007\03\30@230041 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
Come on guys, try to see the glass half full and assume people have good
intentions and bad English.

There is a bit on the FAQ page about posts that don't get answers "If no one
responds after a few days, read the rest of this page,  and Myke Predko's
general list guidelines at http://www.piclist.com/../listguide,  rethink your post
and add a "Nobody responded to my last post, what am I doing wrong?" to the
beginning and send it again. "

Comments below:

> On 3/30/07, Olin Lathrop <olin_piclistspamspam_OUTembedinc.com> wrote:
> > And accusing people of having issues with him demonstrates
> a attitude
> > problem when things don't go his way that nobody will want
> to put up with.
> > There is no way I would mention him to a customer now that might be
> > looking for a intern.  Imagine what they'll think of me if
> he acts up
> > like that on the job.  No thanks.

It amazes me that you would care what people think of you. I've always found
you to be wonderfully thick skinned... And I mean that as a complement.

>
> As someone who's been on the receiving end, I agree.
>
> www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Heat-Energy-transfer-p8400986.html
>
> Is this "ethical hacking"?
>
> Regards,
> Mark

No damage done, just a quick look and a word of warning. Telling you what
your email server reports itself to be is not hacking. I personally would
love a free security audit.

Yigit, please feel free to try to hack piclist.com anytime you like. Try not
to kill it? But if you find a weakness, I will be very grateful for your
time.

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
@spam@jamesnewtonKILLspamspampiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


2007\03\31@024410 by Yigit Turgut

picon face
> And accusing people of having issues with him demonstrates a attitude
> problem when things don't go his way that nobody will want to put up with.
> There is no way I would mention him to a customer now that might be looking
> for a intern.

I can't believe you people, you are still taking that one serious.I
barely know you all in person, how can you really think that I think
you have issues with me ? - which I don't think.All the time posts are
being replied in a good way and I really enjoy reading some of
them.Get over it, that was a joke (:

>Imagine what they'll think of me if he acts up like that on
> the job.  No thanks.

And this is why there are HR professionals who are educated on
personality mapping.Don't worry, they are %90 accurate.

> Is this "ethical hacking"?

Get a life instead of googling people.This is a user-level observartion.

Procedure for running a penetration test is quite long.And doing it
without a consent might give me a little headache.Although I might
check it out for a several layers,upon request.

2007\03\31@091244 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Yigit Turgut wrote:

> Thanks for the reply but I do have USA visa which is valid untill
> 2009.Guys at BlackHat had supplied it for me in 2006 and I extended it
> for a visit.

You're sure that's not a tourist or business visitor visa? Look up the
exact visa class and check the US immigration and visa information sites
about what you are allowed to do with that visa. Normally, you can't just
"extend for a visit" visas that allow you to work in the USA.

Gerhard

2007\03\31@103626 by olin piclist

face picon face
Yigit Turgut wrote:
> how can you really think that I think
> you have issues with me ?

Because you said so.

> Get over it,

Not the best choice of words if you want people to think you don't have a
chip on your shoulder.

> that was a joke (:

Then next time put a smiley face behind it or something.  If I remember
right, you put a frown face there, which reinforced that you were taking it
seriously.

> And this is why there are HR professionals who are educated on
> personality mapping.Don't worry, they are %90 accurate.

HR "professionals" are largely paper pushing morons.  Besides, I doubt there
are many on this list.

> Get a life instead of googling people.

You have just verified that you do have a attitude problem when things don't
go your way.  I might have been willing to believe the original statement
was a failed attempt at a joke, but I really don't think so now.  Telling
someone to "get a life" is insulting and confrontational.  That's obviously
not a smart thing to say to people you want a favor from, so that means you
didn't think this thru and this is another emotional outburst.  There is a
clear pattern now of lashing out at people who could help you when you get
frustrated.

And by the way, googling someone's name is a very reasonable thing to do if
you want to find out something about the person.  Most employers will do
that, although they might not all tell you about it.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2007\03\31@152112 by Vasile Surducan
face picon face
On 3/30/07, Yigit Turgut <KILLspamy.turgutKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
> > And accusing people of having issues with him demonstrates a attitude
> > problem when things don't go his way that nobody will want to put up with.
> > There is no way I would mention him to a customer now that might be looking
> > for a intern.
>
> I can't believe you people, you are still taking that one serious.I
> barely know you all in person, how can you really think that I think
> you have issues with me ? - which I don't think.All the time posts are
> being replied in a good way and I really enjoy reading some of
> them.Get over it, that was a joke (:

Yigit (btw that's turkish name, right?)
Don't take Olin seriously, he want to put me on jail a few years ago...
And BTW, it's not such a happines working for americans, and I'm
guessing is the same working for japanese. All of them will consider
you small and black and put you working for their benefit. As long you
love what you're doing will count less.
But will count...

2007\03\31@155702 by John Chung

picon face
Yigit,

  From your comments I find that you speak your mind.
I know that it can be good from a certain stand point
but we all don't know you that well. Therefore you
should rephrase your words to a more pleasing tone. I
do hope you don't take it to hard on my advise. Just a
gentle advise. Ppl can be harsh but we don need to
follow them.

Regards,
John


--- Yigit Turgut <RemoveMEy.turgutTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2007\03\31@160634 by James Newton, Host

face picon face
> Don't take Olin seriously, he want to put me on jail a few
> years ago...


What he said. Olin is NOT representative of the majority of the list
members, and most certainly not of the list admins, with one or two possible
exceptions.

If I knew of an internship, I would be happy to recommend you. I don't, and
so didn't respond. Frankly, I don't remember hearing of anyone knowing of
any internships in the past.

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
spamBeGonejamesnewtonspamBeGonespampiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


2007\03\31@172951 by Hans Ruopp

flavicon
face
James Newton, Host wrote:
{Quote hidden}

IMO Olin did not pretend to represent anyone, nor the list Admins. Also the phrase you kept is from Vasile's post not Olin.


In fact I agree with Olin. The post from Yigit was quite rude. It looks he does not have much experience in mailing lists.


As I could understand Vasile was just trying to cool things.

James, today is saturday . Probably many of us had a rough week. What
about drink a nice and cold beer to refresh and relax? ;-)


BTW, this afternoon I was watching the 12PM news and I have learned that
a company in the vibration sensors market, here in Switzerland, was
hiring and they have about 30 positions open. As their HR manager said,
they are looking in EU and others countries 'cause there are not enough
qualified people here.


Regards


Hans


'[EE] Internship E'
2007\04\01@032554 by wouter van ooijen
face picon face
> BTW, this afternoon I was watching the 12PM news and I have
> learned that
> a company in the vibration sensors market, here in Switzerland, was
> hiring and they have about 30 positions open. As their HR
> manager said,
> they are looking in EU and others countries 'cause there are
> not enough
> qualified people here.

Here in the Netherlands I too hear over and over that we do not have
enough well-educated people. Turkey is not EC yet, but maybe some
agreement already exists to make working here possible.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\04\01@032554 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> What he said. Olin is NOT representative of the majority of the list
> members,

Maybe not, but he is in the USA and IIRC he has at least some influence
when his company hires people. So he might be more representative for
the group of people Yigit needs cooperation from that most other people
on the list.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu




2007\04\01@084753 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
wouter van ooijen wrote:

>> BTW, this afternoon I was watching the 12PM news and I have learned that
>> a company in the vibration sensors market, here in Switzerland, was
>> hiring and they have about 30 positions open. As their HR manager said,
>> they are looking in EU and others countries 'cause there are not enough
>> qualified people here.
>
> Here in the Netherlands I too hear over and over that we do not have
> enough well-educated people. Turkey is not EC yet, but maybe some
> agreement already exists to make working here possible.

I always hear, for many years now, these tales of engineers and programmers
being scarce, sometimes from the USA, sometimes from various places in
Europe. Funny thing is that this rarely seems to correlate with an increase
in the offered wages. As I think there's something to the idea that the
relationship between offer and supply controls the price, I'd expect that
such a scarcity results in increasing salary offers. Until this happens,
I'm reasonably reluctant in believing there's actually a short of supply.
Maybe there's a short of supply at the offered wages... but that's a
different thing :)

Gerhard

2007\04\01@090204 by Hans Ruopp

flavicon
face
Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
{Quote hidden}

If someone is interested....

http://vibro-meter.com/general/careers.html

Hans

2007\04\02@181314 by Peter P.

picon face
Hmm, some people might find this test easier instead ... :

 http://kevan.org/nohari?name=zap778

Peter P.


2007\04\02@181540 by Peter P.

picon face
Speaking of profiling, how about a little test:

 http://kevan.org/johari?name=zap777

Peter P.


2007\04\03@183532 by Peter P.

picon face
Peter P. <plpeter2006 <at> yahoo.com> writes:

>
> Hmm, some people might find this test easier instead ... :
>
>   http://kevan.org/nohari?name=zap778

I forgot to mention that those attributes were set for myself, not for anyone
else. I would not dare to be that cheeky. Anyway, thanks for the two (?)
anonymous posters who participated. I'll try to improve.

Peter P.




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