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'[EE] International electrical outlets - Philippine'
2016\10\25@144616 by Denny Esterline

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Is there someone that can give me some first-hand clarification of
electrical outlets in the Philippines?


It looks like I'll be sending one of my products to an end user in the
Philippines, I'm trying to sort out the battery charger.
The research I've done seems to suggest that the Philippines uses 230Vac @
60 Hz and the outlets are commonly NEMA 1-15 (two prong, ungrounded) and
NEMA 5-15 (three prong, Grounded) .

Sounds good, but leaves me very confused. These are the common
electrical outlets
here in North America, and they're only rated to 120Vac.

Can anybody provide me with a bit of clarity?

-Denny
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2016\10\25@151441 by David C Brown

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The IEC website  ( http://www.iec.ch/worldplugs/list_bylocation.htm)
indicates that the Philippines uses the same plugs as the USA.   Which is
hardly surprising given their colonial history.
North American plugs may be rated at 120v in North America since that is
the usual voltage there ba   A brief look at a NEMA plug suggests that,
unless the plastic is of very poor quality there would be little difficulty
quaifying it for 250 volts or higher.

On 25 October 2016 at 19:46, Denny Esterline <spam_OUTdesterlineTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

-- __________________________________________
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SK23 7ND          web: http://www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
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2016\10\25@153107 by Charles Craft

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Can you put a IEC-320 inlet on it and let the local user use one from their giant box of left over power cords?
Is the power supply good for 100-240v/50-60Hz?





{Original Message removed}

2016\10\25@164001 by Denny Esterline

picon face
> The IEC website  ( http://www.iec.ch/worldplugs/list_bylocation.htm)
>  indicates that the Philippines uses the same plugs as the USA.   Which is
> hardly surprising given their colonial history.
> North American plugs may be rated at 120v in North America since that is
> the usual voltage there ba   A brief look at a NEMA plug suggests that,
> unless the plastic is of very poor quality there would be little difficulty
> quaifying it for 250 volts or higher.
>
>
I had a different reference source, but, that's basically what I found.
I'm just choking on the idea that the same physical connector would be used
with significantly different voltages. Even if the dielectric of the socket
is adequate to the increased voltage, it would seem that a "human factor"
failure is eminent as someone will plug in a _device_ that cannot handle
the higher voltage.

It seems contrary to my internal logic, and given the global reach of this
list, I was hoping somebody with first-hand experience could clarify it.

-Denny



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2016\10\25@213824 by Harold Hallikainen

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> Can you put a IEC-320 inlet on it and let the local user use one from
> their giant box of left over power cords?
> Is the power supply good for 100-240v/50-60Hz?

I really like this idea. A universal input power supply with a universal
inlet. It should be easy to source the power cord there, and hard and
expensive here.

We've recently done some OEM work for a couple large international
companies (one based in US, one based in Europe). Power cords are a pain!
At one point, they wanted us to put three power cords in each box so the
user is guaranteed to throw away two. I've tried to encourage them to put
no power cord in the box and sell the power cord as a separate line item
with a different part number for each region.

Harold


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2016\10\25@223146 by Charles Craft

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-----Original Message-----
{Quote hidden}

Our unit goes in a rack with a PDU strip.
Has redundant power supply so ships with two (2) C13-C14 PDU power cords.
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2016\10\25@225730 by Jean-Paul Louis

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I always try to use universal inlet with built-in EMI filter. Makes things easier.
Then the customer uses whatever power cord is available in their country.

We had to make sure that the Power supply accepted 85-265VAC 50-60Hz.
Tricky parts were for Japan (100V min) and Australia (265 max) at each end of the power range.

Just my $0.02,

Jean-Paul
N1JPL



> On Oct 25, 2016, at 10:31 PM, Charles Craft <EraseMEchuckseaspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> {Original Message removed}

2016\10\26@001553 by Harold Hallikainen

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> I always try to use universal inlet with built-in EMI filter. Makes things
> easier.
> Then the customer uses whatever power cord is available in their country.
>

I agree. One thing to watch out for is cascaded EMI filters. We use a
standard switcher inside the box which has a built-in EMI filter rated for
class B conducted emissions. If you add another EMI filter in the inlet,
there's a danger of going over the permitted "touch current" (current
through the safety ground). I think the limit is something like 1mA so
that if the ground gets broken, it does not present a serious shock
hazard. But, cascading filters can cause you to go over the 1mA limit.
We've recently gone to unfiltered inlets. I was concerned about the AC
wiring in the box carrying RF outside the box, but so far we've passed the
lab tests.

Harold

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2016\10\26@044400 by David C Brown

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The same physical connector is often used for voltages as disparate as 3v
and 8v on powercubes with as a bonus, both polarities being used.

I suspect that the danger is obvious that Filipinos are very aware of the
need for care.  Whether visiting Americans are so savvy, I doubt :-)


{Quote hidden}

-- __________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
Derbyshire                eMail: dcb.homespamspam_OUTgmail.com
SK23 7ND          web: http://www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



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2016\10\26@044915 by David C Brown

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The giant box of left over power cords which never contains a cord short
enough :-(

On 25 October 2016 at 20:31, Charles Craft <@spam@chuckseaKILLspamspammindspring.com> wrote:

> Can you put a IEC-320 inlet on it and let the local user use one from
> their giant box of left over power cords?
> Is the power supply good for 100-240v/50-60Hz?
>
>
>
>
>
> {Original Message removed}

2016\10\26@050229 by alan.b.pearce

face picon face
>
> The giant box of left over power cords which never contains a cord short
> enough :-(

In my experience they are never quite long enough, that's why they are in the box ... ;)


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2016\10\26@085234 by Van Horn, David

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Wires come in two lengths, too long and too short.

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2016\10\26@150646 by Denny Esterline

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Once again, we've proven that a less than complete explanation of the
problem give less than helpful answers. :-)

We built the product around a standard commercially available power tool
battery and charger - specifically to avoid these kinds of issues.
As we only handle a few 100 units per year, we're not big enough to get any
assistance or support from the manufacturer of the battery pack and charger..
My employer is selling it to a customer here in here in North America. This
customer has indicated that it will be integrated with a _much_ larger
package that will end up in the Philippines (my product is well less than
1% of their deliverable)

The charger we have historically provided is labeled 120Vac 60Hz. Again,
not a product I have any design information or input upon.

I need to provide the charger for the testing and integration phase here in
N.A., I'm quite concerned that if they forward the charger on to the end
user in the Philippines with a plug that fits their standard outlet but NOT
rated for the voltage.... The chances of "bad things happening" approach
unity.

The idea of the same outlets being used at two different voltages seemed a
bit hard to accept, which brought me to the point of asking the hive-mind
for a first-hand account of the electrical outlet standards in the
Philippines.

I know that this battery- and by extension some charger for it - is used in
many international markets that have standard 220Vac power. So I'm
currently attempting to source one of these alternate chargers as a
solution to this.

Thanks
-Denny
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2016\10\26@165609 by Dr Skip

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My experience is that will be worse overall. Depending on who is
supplying and who is deciding on the cords, you quite likely will end
up with customers not having the right one or any cord. You introduce
additional steps and divide up responsibility for successful delivery
to the customer.

If the end customer is retail, you get angry end users.
If it's for inclusion in another product, they get angry end users and
you get an angry client.

Either way, someone in the chain WILL forget to order cords or not
know he had to and their won't be one, or the wrong cord will end up
being shipped/combined, or there will be a shortage of the required
cord for some market because (obviously) they had to be shipped
separately, didn't arrive, etc.

It also requires a lot more specific accuracy in forecasting each
market to get it right and avoid shortages for one and excess for
another. It never comes out right...

It may seem wasteful, but including all and letting the user decide
really ends up being lowest cost for the manufacturer. Been there done
that...

Dr Skip

On 10/25/16, Harold Hallikainen <KILLspamharoldKILLspamspammai.hallikainen.org> wrote:
> At one point, they wanted us to put three power cords in each box so the
> user is guaranteed to throw away two. I've tried to encourage them to put
> no power cord in the box and sell the power cord as a separate line item
> with a different part number for each region.
>
> Harold
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2016\10\26@180813 by alan.b.pearce

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You may well find that the innards of the charger are identical whatever the mains voltage marking. However because your unit is fitted with a plug intended to be used in a market where 110V is the norm, then that is what it gets marked as. If fitted with a plug for a 230v market then it will be marked for that. They don't mark it as a wide range (88-264) as to do so suggests that people will attempt to use dodgy adapter arrangements to get their unit to plug into a mains system they are not familiar with, with all the attendant risk of someone getting electric shock or worse.

Come across this very scenario on model railway wall warts.

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2016\10\27@214011 by peter green

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On 26/10/16 23:08, RemoveMEalan.b.pearceTakeThisOuTspamstfc.ac.uk wrote:
> You may well find that the innards of the charger are identical whatever the mains voltage marking. However because your unit is fitted with a plug intended to be used in a market where 110V is the norm, then that is what it gets marked as. If fitted with a plug for a 230v market then it will be marked for that. They don't mark it as a wide range (88-264) as to do so suggests that people will attempt to use dodgy adapter arrangements to get their unit to plug into a mains system they are not familiar with, with all the attendant risk of someone getting electric shock or worse.
>
> Come across this very scenario on model railway wall warts.
>    There is also a common design technique where the only difference between the ~115V and 230V configurations is a single link wire (or a switch, but I assume if your PSU had a voltage switch you wouldn't be asking this question). With the link disconnected the front end rectifier acts as a bridge, with the link in place it acts as a voltage doubler.

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2016\10\28@042454 by alan.b.pearce

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> > You may well find that the innards of the charger are identical whatever the
> mains voltage marking. However because your unit is fitted with a plug
> intended to be used in a market where 110V is the norm, then that is what it
> gets marked as. If fitted with a plug for a 230v market then it will be marked
> for that. They don't mark it as a wide range (88-264) as to do so suggests that
> people will attempt to use dodgy adapter arrangements to get their unit to
> plug into a mains system they are not familiar with, with all the attendant risk
> of someone getting electric shock or worse.
> >
> > Come across this very scenario on model railway wall warts.
> >
> There is also a common design technique where the only difference
> between the ~115V and 230V configurations is a single link wire (or a switch,
> but I assume if your PSU had a voltage switch you wouldn't be asking this
> question). With the link disconnected the front end rectifier acts as a bridge,
> with the link in place it acts as a voltage doubler.

Is that technique still used? With modern wide range SMPS chips I thought doing that had dropped out in favour of the universal method which also saves having to change the board or switch.



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2016\10\28@194304 by peter green

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On 28/10/16 09:24, spamBeGonealan.b.pearcespamBeGonespamstfc.ac.uk wrote:
>> There is also a common design technique where the only difference
>> between the ~115V and 230V configurations is a single link wire (or a switch,
>> but I assume if your PSU had a voltage switch you wouldn't be asking this
>> question). With the link disconnected the front end rectifier acts as a bridge,
>> with the link in place it acts as a voltage doubler.
>>      
> Is that technique still used? With modern wide range SMPS chips I thought doing that had dropped out in favour of the universal method which also saves having to change the board or switch.
>    Afaict it's less common than it used to be but many crappy old PSU designs are still in production.
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