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'[EE] Interesting new 8 bit uC from Freescale'
2006\05\19@135257 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
It might be worth a second to look at this one.... Looks darn close to a low
end pic to me and starts at 50 cents.

media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=8317
05&highlight=


http://www.microcontroller.com/news/freescale_rs08.asp

"...uses the same internal bus structure as the HCS08, which allows
integration of HCS08 peripherals, memory, and debug hardware."

Comments?

---
James.


2006\05\19@145131 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> [snip some HS08 links]
> "...uses the same internal bus structure as the HCS08,
> which allows integration of HCS08 peripherals,
> memory, and debug hardware."
> Comments?

What is the track record of this company for long-term availability?

Companies often want to improve their products. That is nice if you want
to use that new product, but what will they to the next year? There is
always room for more improvement. Will they still sell the older, less
perfect, chips? At what price, minimum quantity, lead time?

I think we all agree that the 14-bit PIC core is a rediculous, stupid,
arcane, bizarre architecture. Yet Mirochip still sells it! In some sense
(see above) this is reassuring!

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\05\19@151750 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Fri, 2006-05-19 at 10:52 -0700, James Newtons Massmind wrote:
> It might be worth a second to look at this one.... Looks darn close to a low
> end pic to me and starts at 50 cents.
>
> media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=8317
> 05&highlight=
>
>
> www.microcontroller.com/news/freescale_rs08.asp
>
> "...uses the same internal bus structure as the HCS08, which allows
> integration of HCS08 peripherals, memory, and debug hardware."
>
> Comments?

Is freescale the branch of motorolla?

If so, my main concerns, without even LOOKING at the part, is available
in small/medium quantities, development tool costs, and "small timer"
support, all which IMHO were an issue with motorola.

TTYL

2006\05\19@180320 by Denny Esterline

picon face
>
> Is freescale the branch of motorolla?

Not quite, Freescale IS Motorola. They had a corporate split a couple years ago, the semiconductor division was spun off as Freescale.

-Denny


2006\05\19@180920 by Philip Pemberton

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In message <spam_OUT1148066317.2683.10.camelTakeThisOuTspamlocalhost.localdomain>>          Herbert Graf <.....mailinglist2KILLspamspam@spam@farcite.net> wrote:

> Is freescale the branch of motorolla?

Yep. Freescale = Motorola Semiconductor Products. Well, until Motorola
decided to spin it off as a separate company.

> If so, my main concerns, without even LOOKING at the part, is available
> in small/medium quantities, development tool costs, and "small timer"
> support, all which IMHO were an issue with motorola.

I've been stung by that. Bought a few Coldfire CPUs, then found out the BDM
debugging/programming pod costs about £200...

Apparently it's just a high-speed GAL on a PCB. Maybe £20 worth of parts at
the absolute most.

--
Phil.                         | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G VF+UniPod
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2006\05\19@182504 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 06:02 PM 5/19/2006 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> > Is freescale the branch of motorolla?
>
>Not quite, Freescale IS Motorola. They had a corporate split a couple
>years ago, the semiconductor division was spun off as Freescale.
>
>-Denny

Most of the semiconductor division (but not micros and some other high-tech
products) was spun off as "ON Semiconductor Corp". Later, the rest was spun
off as Freescale.

So, if you're looking for a Dragonball processor or HC08, it's Freescale.
If you want a 2N4401, it's On Semiconductor.

Looks like they took some nice stuff out of the core to make it more
like  PICs. 8-(  The multiply instruction is very useful for indexed
addressing in data tables (not so much for mathematical operations). The
overflow flag is gone. Of course you can still do lots of things, but
I don't know why you'd prefer to use that part rather than Microchip,
Atmel or some other maker. It probably isn't as bad as the execrable
HC04 though. Their peripherals tend to be pretty good and bug-free.


>Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
.....speffKILLspamspam.....interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
->>Test equipment, parts OLED displys http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZspeff


2006\05\19@192638 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 5/20/06, Wouter van Ooijen <EraseMEwouterspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTvoti.nl> wrote:
>
> What is the track record of this company for long-term availability?

I think Freescale's track record for long term availability is good. Anyway
they are very strong in the automotive market and one prerequisite is
the long term availability in that market. The outdated parts can be
expensive but they are in general still available, albeit with higher
price tag.

The problem with the old Motorola SPS was the availability of MCUs
in small quantity, service, high cost of development tools. Now Freescale
is trying to correct these problems. They now are getting better especially
in the development tools part. They start to give away 16k/32k limited
C compiler. They also have cheaper ICD2 like JTAG/BDM tools now.

Still they have lost to Microchip in the 8-bit market and others in
the 16-bit/32bit market and it will take them quite some time to
capature the market share back.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2006\05\22@044525 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I've been stung by that. Bought a few Coldfire CPUs, then
>found out the BDM debugging/programming pod costs about £200...

OK, so about the same cost as an ICD2 ...

>Apparently it's just a high-speed GAL on a PCB. Maybe £20
>worth of parts at the absolute most.

OK, so about the same as an ICD2 ...

But there is information out on the web that looks like you can build a
complete BDM unit without getting anything from Freescale/Motorola.

2006\05\22@051802 by Philip Pemberton

face picon face
Alan B. Pearce wrote:
>> I've been stung by that. Bought a few Coldfire CPUs, then
>> found out the BDM debugging/programming pod costs about £200...
>
> OK, so about the same cost as an ICD2 ...

Actually, my ICD2 only cost £80, and Farnell are currently listing them at
£93.02 + VAT, or £109.30 inc VAT. It's £3 cheaper from MicrochipDIRECT, but
there's P&P on top of that.

> But there is information out on the web that looks like you can build a
> complete BDM unit without getting anything from Freescale/Motorola.

The big problem is you wouldn't get the BDM software, and there's no GDB
support for some of the slightly less mainstream Coldfire chips (e.g. the
SCF5250 "Amadeus Plus" Coldfire MP3 decoder).

You can bootstrap them without BDM (using JTAG), but you'd have to write a
(small!) bootloader that would fetch a program over the serial link and load
it into Flash ROM. That said, the 5250 has an onboard bootloader that can read
from a HDD or flash drive on the ATA (or MMC/SD/MS) interface. Or (IIRC) it
can be made to load from the serial port. I'd have to check the 5250
programmer's manual to confirm that though...

--
Phil.                         | Kitsune: Acorn RiscPC SA202 64M+6G ViewFinder
philpemspamspam_OUTdsl.pipex.com         | Cheetah: Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxeV2 512M+100G
http://www.philpem.me.uk/     | Tiger: Toshiba SatPro4600 Celeron700 256M+40G

2006\05\22@093226 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> But there is information out on the web that looks like you can build a
>> complete BDM unit without getting anything from Freescale/Motorola.
>
>The big problem is you wouldn't get the BDM software, and there's no GDB
>support for some of the slightly less mainstream Coldfire chips (e.g. the
>SCF5250 "Amadeus Plus" Coldfire MP3 decoder).
>
>You can bootstrap them without BDM (using JTAG), but you'd have to write a
>(small!) bootloader that would fetch a program over the serial link and
load
>it into Flash ROM. That said, the 5250 has an onboard bootloader that can
read
>from a HDD or flash drive on the ATA (or MMC/SD/MS) interface. Or (IIRC) it
>can be made to load from the serial port. I'd have to check the 5250
>programmer's manual to confirm that though...

Hmm, haven't gone digging into the inner workings, just done enough
searching to see what I could do with an existing chip. But I got the
impression that much of the BDM software that is internal to the chip comes
in ROM in the chip when you purchase it, and cannot be overwritten - just
functionally disabled. But then my only experience comes from investigating
the possibilities with an HCS12 chip, and not actually done anything serious
with it.

2006\05\24@025022 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On May 19, 2006, at 10:52 AM, James Newtons Massmind wrote:

> It might be worth a second to look at this one.... Looks darn close to  
> a low
> end pic to me and starts at 50 cents.
>
> http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-
> newsArticle&ID=8317
> 05&highlight=
>
They seem to have just announced a 6-pin version as well:

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?
code=MC9RS08KA2

Not in anything as friendly as an SOT-23/6, though.

Depending on availability and support, this could give the
low-end PICs a run for their money; the freescale parts have
a couple of advantages (after a quick glance at the datasheets.
Could be wrong.)

1) up to 2k of flash, even in the 6pin part.,
2) includes 1-wire debug mode support.
3) same chip in an 8pin package has 8 usable pins.
4) internal clock is supposed to go 10MHz.

OTOH, they strongly imply that the 6pin part has 4 bidirectional
IO, and it certainly looks on more careful reading that one is
an input only and one is an output only...  Not a good start.

BillW

2006\05\24@082505 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On 5/24/06, William Chops Westfield <@spam@westfwKILLspamspammac.com> wrote:

> They seem to have just announced a 6-pin version as well:
>
> www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?
> code=MC9RS08KA2
>
> Not in anything as friendly as an SOT-23/6, though.

Interesting. I am not so sure whether they have already paid loyalties to
Microchip.

I was given an ICD from Hense Technology Singapore
but I think the 6-pin device is not be supported.

http://www.hensetech.com.hk/devtools_e.htm

The ICD is a cheap US$49 tools. But I think they dropped  the
dealership for Freescale due to lack of business.

I think there are now more cheap debugger for the HC908 and
HC9S08 families.

Regards,
Xiaofan

2006\05\24@090050 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Interesting. I am not so sure whether they have already paid
> loyalties to Microchip.

rofl!

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


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