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'[EE] Grounding and Lightning protection exterior b'
2015\05\07@115733 by Adam Field

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Hi guys, I'm doing a point-to-point radio link using a pair of PoE powered
5GHz ethernet bridges. As a side note, the PoE from this vendor is non
standard at 24VDC - but low voltage no electrical code applies AFAIK.

I need to run a short distance from my house (50ft~) and I'm planing on
mounting the radio in a tree. From all the research I've done I've decided
to use gel filled "direct burial" shielded cat5e cable to run through the
yard. I half convinced to use PVC conduit with it too.

I think I should terminate the shield with a cat5 lightning arrester at the
point of entry to my home. However, there isn't a good ground nearby, it's
at the other end of the house and all my plumbing is PEX plastic tubing -
no good. I'm thinking of using the HAM trick of water drilling a copper
tube into the ground to use for my lightning ground.

Also, I'm up in Massachusetts so we do get a good frost - any ideas on how
far down I should be burying this cable? Ideally I'd like to do as little
work as possible.
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2015\05\07@122558 by Sean Breheny

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I don't have a good answer to your question but I am wondering what you
mean by "water drilling a copper tube"? I'm an amateur radio operator who
has installed ground rods before but I've never heard of a trick called
"water drilling".

Sean


On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Adam Field <spam_OUTadamTakeThisOuTspambadtech.org> wrote:

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2015\05\07@123336 by David VanHorn

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Tube. Garden hose. Shove.
On May 7, 2015 10:28 AM, "Sean Breheny" <.....shb7KILLspamspam@spam@cornell.edu> wrote:

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2015\05\07@130102 by Adam Field

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>
> I don't have a good answer to your question but I am wondering what you
> mean by "water drilling a copper tube"? I'm an amateur radio operator who
> has installed ground rods before but I've never heard of a trick called
> "water drilling".
>
> Sean


Instead of pounding a rod into the ground, you hook up your garden hose to
a copper pipe. The water "drills" the pipe into the ground with ease but
it's not as good as a pounded rod - you can't use it as an electrical
service ground.
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2015\05\08@091544 by Sean Breheny

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Ah, OK, thanks for the explanation.

I don't think that method would work so well in the area where I had to
drive a few ground rods (northeastern Pennsylvania) because the soil was
very rocky, often with fairly large rocks.

On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Adam Field <.....adamKILLspamspam.....badtech.org> wrote:

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2015\05\08@111339 by Adam Field

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On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Sean Breheny <EraseMEshb7spam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTcornell.edu> wrote:

> Ah, OK, thanks for the explanation.
>
> I don't think that method would work so well in the area where I had to
> drive a few ground rods (northeastern Pennsylvania) because the soil was
> very rocky, often with fairly large rocks.
>
>
What did you end up doing? Did you use a jackhammer? I see they make ground
rod driver adapters for some of the hammers, but ideally I'd like a cheaper
option.
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2015\05\08@123038 by Brooke Clarke

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Hi:

Although it takes some time, it's possible to water drill through rock.
But I expect it works better with an iron pipe.  As the rock chips are washed away exposing the solid rock to the bit.
http://www.prc68.com/I/ForestGardening.shtml#GHHD

Mail_Attachment --
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html
piclist-requestspamspam_OUTmit.edu wrote:
> [EE] Grounding and Lightning protection exterior buried
>        ethernet

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2015\05\08@145926 by Dwayne Reid

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At 09:13 AM 5/8/2015, Adam Field wrote:

>What did you end up doing? Did you use a jackhammer? I see they make ground
>rod driver adapters for some of the hammers, but ideally I'd like a cheaper
>option.

Many years ago, I made an adapter to drive ground rods with my (large) rotary hammer drill.  In my case, I started off by making use of one of the chisel attachments available for my drill and machining an adapter that allowed it to couple to the ground rod.

My rotary hammer isn't as powerful as a standalone jack hammer but it sure did make getting those ground rods into rocky soil a *lot* easier than using the sledgehammer that I used to use.

dwayne

-- Dwayne Reid   <@spam@dwaynerKILLspamspamplanet.eon.net>
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(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
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2015\05\08@152132 by Dwayne Reid

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Hi there, Adam.

I think that you can save some money by using unshielded gel-filled cable (as opposed to shielded).  The shielding is intended to protect against external EMI and that simply is not normally a problem when burying the cable in dirt.

Using a conduit makes it easier should you either have to add to or replace your wiring.  You have to dig the trench only one time - this is a *lot* easier on you should you change your mind about what you want at the remote location.

Use the largest conduit that you can afford.  3/4" would be the minimum diameter that I would use but, depending on your future plans, you may want to consider 1" pipe.  I also assuming that you would be using PVC conduit with glued joints.

I normally dig my trenches to be about 24 inches deep and place a pressure-treated 2x6 on top of the pipe (or cable) before re-filling the trench.

dwayne


At 09:57 AM 5/7/2015, Adam Field wrote:
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-- Dwayne Reid   <KILLspamdwaynerKILLspamspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

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2015\05\08@160008 by Jean-Paul Louis

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I agree with Dwayne.

When I do it, I also attach a string to the cable I am pulling, so it will be used   to pull the next cable I need to add into the conduit. I use 1” schedule 40 PVC conduit. That makes life a lot easier. I use water drilling to go under the concrete driveway if needed.

Jean-Paul
AC9GH


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2015\05\08@164532 by Bob Blick

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On Fri, May 8, 2015, at 12:21 PM, Dwayne Reid wrote:

> and place a
> pressure-treated 2x6 on top of the pipe (or cable) before re-filling
> the trench.

I knew you were smart, but that is genius! (I've broken PVC many times
with a pick or shovel)

Bob

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2015\05\08@190055 by Sean Breheny

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It was more than 10 years ago so I'm not sure I remember but my
recollection was that I kept trying different spots until I found one where
I was able to hammer the rod in all the way. I remember that the first spot
I tried I hit a rock that was so large and strong that it really mashed up
the tip of the rod when I whaled on it with a hammer and eventually had to
pull it back out because it was not making progress.

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Adam Field <TakeThisOuTadamEraseMEspamspam_OUTbadtech.org> wrote:

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2015\05\08@223759 by Harold Hallikainen

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I've always wondered about the possibility of threaded ground rods and
fence posts. Just screw them into the ground.

Harold


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2015\05\09@040201 by Joe McCauley

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Having had lots of problems trying to pull cables through almost 2'' pipe, I' m now using 4" sewer pipe for all underground cable runs I do of any significant length, Its not expensive. I find we always need to add stuff to our setups, so the large diameter makes things much easier. Also leaving a pull through cable in the pipe is a sensible thing that do.
Wish I'd thought of the 2x6 trick though. Last week we had to dig a very expensive magnetometer out of the ground. Having some wood in as a sacrificial marker would have been nice rather than have the excavator stop just above where we thought it was buried & probe for it manually. It appears that every day is still a school day. That's going to be part of my standard procedure for this from now....

Joe
________________________________________
From: piclist-bouncesEraseMEspam.....mit.edu [EraseMEpiclist-bouncesspammit.edu] On Behalf Of Dwayne Reid [RemoveMEdwaynerEraseMEspamEraseMEplanet.eon.net]
Sent: 08 May 2015 20:21
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [EE] Grounding and Lightning protection exterior buried ethernet

Hi there, Adam.

I think that you can save some money by using unshielded gel-filled
cable (as opposed to shielded).  The shielding is intended to protect
against external EMI and that simply is not normally a problem when
burying the cable in dirt.

Using a conduit makes it easier should you either have to add to or
replace your wiring.  You have to dig the trench only one time - this
is a *lot* easier on you should you change your mind about what you
want at the remote location.

Use the largest conduit that you can afford.  3/4" would be the
minimum diameter that I would use but, depending on your future
plans, you may want to consider 1" pipe.  I also assuming that you
would be using PVC conduit with glued joints.

I normally dig my trenches to be about 24 inches deep and place a
pressure-treated 2x6 on top of the pipe (or cable) before re-filling
the trench.

dwayne


At 09:57 AM 5/7/2015, Adam Field wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
Dwayne Reid   <RemoveMEdwaynerspam_OUTspamKILLspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

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