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'[EE] Finding a chip...'
2004\09\17@135744 by Dennis Crawley

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A week or two ago, a huge lightning strike over Buenos Aires, and one chip
of a telephone switcher just almost disappears. I've look for it, but I've
failed.
Perhaps somebody is in touch with the manufacturers.

The telephone switch is:
Southwestern Bell Telecom
Model DKS-924
Key Service unit
Made in Indonesia

The Motherboard in which the chip is,
is labeled: 613A021315-C

The chip have this signs:
TEC-9254
562-300012
(100 pins)

Thank you in advance, for any help.

Dennis Crawley.

PS: the firm who import this thing has gone,... as almost eveyone. :)


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2004\09\17@154736 by Engineering Info

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Don't know who TEK is but the 9254 is probally the date code (54th week
of 1992).  The 562-300012 sounds very much like it could be an internal
part number to the company.  It is very common for companies to program
a microprocessor or FPGA or to take some other part and put their own
part number on it.  If this is the case, the only chance to get a new
part is to find TEK and get the part from them.  Since the part was made
back in 1992, the chances of that part being obsolete and no longer
available is also great.

Dennis Crawley wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2004\09\17@170822 by olin_piclist

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Engineering Info wrote:
> Don't know who TEK is but the 9254 is probally the date code (54th
> week of 1992).

ROTFL!  That's got to be one of the dumber comments I've seen here recently.

Are you sure it's not the 92nd week of 1954?


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2004\09\17@180449 by Engineering Info

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FUCK YOU TOO ASSHOLE!!!

Olin Lathrop wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2004\09\17@183245 by Jinx
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> (54th week of 1992)

It does look like a date code but I think you'll find 1992 wasn't
exceptional, weeks-in-a-year-wise ;-)))


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2004\09\17@185638 by Shawn Wilton

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You need to seriously check yourself.  Olin's right, that was a stupid
comment.  You know why?  Because there aren't 54 weeks in a year.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=number+of+weeks+in+a+year&btnG=Google+Search

You owe Olin and the rest of the list an apology for that one.


Shawn Wilton
Junior in CpE
MicroBiologist

http://black9.net


Engineering Info wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2004\09\17@191603 by Dennis Crawley

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Thank you anyway.
I'll track services in Brazil.

Perhaps it is (1992 - 5 - 4),... as you said seems to be company number.

Dennis.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Engineering Info"
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [EE] Finding a chip...


> Don't know who TEK is but the 9254 is probally ...

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2004\09\17@194110 by Engineering Info

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Well you and Olin and the rest of the list are not getting an apology.  
Jinx was correct in pointing out that I was wrong about the 52 weeks and
did so in the correct way.  Olin comment was just plain WRONG.  But then
again, Olin already has a LONG history of being VERY VERY VERY rude to
members on the list.  Since he can't seem to keep his mouth shut and not
be rude, I will treat him in the manner that he likes to treat others.  
I will treat him in a VERY VERY VERY rude way.

If the admins think I am wrong, then kick me from the list right now and
make it permanant with no chance of ever returning to the list again.
Don't even give me a warning.  Heaven forbid I should actually spend my
day TRYING to answer questions for someone only to be made fun of if I
happen to make a human error.  Heaven forbid I should actually want to
be on a list where it is OK for Olin to CONTINUE to be rude to others.

Shawn Wilton wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2004\09\17@195013 by Mike Singer

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Shawn Wilton wrote:
> You need to seriously check yourself.  
> Olin's right, that was a stupid comment.  

I'm not stating Olin's opponent was right, but, nevertheless, I'm not
sure Olin was right. He should hold his sarcasm in check sometimes. (Me
too).


Mike.

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2004\09\17@205551 by Mike Singer

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Engineering Info wrote:

> Heaven forbid...

You can't make world better by saying "FUCK YOU TOO ASSHOLE!!!" to
everyone who is doing something that you think is bad. This way you are
just heavily multiplying the badness.


> Heaven forbid I should actually want to be on a list where
> it is OK for Olin to CONTINUE to be rude to others.

You even didn't give the List a chance to defend you. How are we
supposed to defend you now after you've said such hateful words?  


> Heaven forbid I should actually spend my day TRYING to
> answer questions for someone only to be made fun of if
> I happen to make a human error.

Olin is also a human, he happens to make human errors too.
Lot of folks make errors, most of folks I'm sure. And what?


Mike.


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2004\09\17@210120 by James Newtons Massmind

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Mr. Lathrop is no longer with the PICList... Again... For good...

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> {Original Message removed}

2004\09\17@211007 by James Newtons Massmind

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Mr. Engineering Info is no longer with the PICList.

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Engineering Info wrote:
> {ed; something not very nice at all, no... Not nice...}
>
> Olin Lathrop wrote:
>
>> Engineering Info wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> Don't know who TEK is but the 9254 is probally the date
code (54th
{Quote hidden}

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2004\09\17@213715 by Bob Axtell

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James, good call.

--Bob

James Newtons Massmind wrote:

{Quote hidden}

>>{Original Message removed}

2004\09\17@214810 by Russell McMahon

face
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STOP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(please)

All ze children must play nicely together und not make ze fuss ven vun or
dee udder iss perhaps overly rude!!! *
Or we will all end up sounding like US voters debating whether Florida was
won fairly or not.
Failure to comply vill result in us all havink all our toys taken away.

Olin was rude.
Big deal.
By all means flame him off list. Or remonstrate less rudely on list. He must
enjoy this as he persists in doing such things regardless of consequence.
But as rudeness goes, it wasn't much. It was ALMOST worthy of being called
flippant. Past history helps one filter such things.

And being ultra rude back to Olin alone is between him and you.
But why lower yourself to his level / or perhaps, why not lift yourself
above his level.

And why cut off your nose to spite your face.
I know of at least one list member who issued a similar challenge to list
admin and they quite rightly responded to his request. But I also know that
he regretted having dome so subsequently.
Why do you think that you (or I, or Olin, or ....) should be "allowed" to
severely transgress rules of reasonable and polite behaviour when we want?
Wouldn't take long before we sounded like many of the other unmoderated
internet lists. Who gains.

And why do you think that being rude to EVERYONE else on the list is the
proper way to respond to Olin's rudeness. I personally am not offended - it
makes no sense for me to be - but you attitude was one of causing offence
and ensuring that as many people as possible shared in it. I would hope that
you would agree that that has to be a short lived behaviour pattern.

Insisting that "I will treat him in a VERY VERY VERY rude way." will give
you one or two brief moments of glory and self justification, and then you
die.
Olin will continue on and you will have an indefinite period of time to feel
sorry for yourself.
Olin wins.
Is that the intended strategy?

And you have to admit that it was a stupid thing to write. I don't know
about you but I manage to say/do/write at least some stupid things every
day. Never a miss. 54 weeks in a year - I'm sure I can do better than that
many days. It's part of being human. Accepting graceless derisive comment
from someone else without demur when we do such things is part of being a
"better" human. Responding more rudely than they takes you down their path.
Not always advice I follow, of course, but worth doing as well as one may.
(Quite apart from the fact that the boss says that it's the way to go).


   have fun!

           Russell McMahon




* with due apologies to whatever mock language group this mock language
happens to resemble. No mocking intended.

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2004\09\17@221024 by Russell McMahon

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> Mr. Lathrop is no longer with the PICList... Again... For good...

Well I can see I'm going to be spitting into the wind here [or worse
:-( ]BUT it wasn't that bad.
Rude? - yes.
But almost wry and whimsical.
Is it stupid to suggest that there are 54 weeks in a year? In many cases the
answer would be yes. Some people would say that from ignorance, or due to
some mental or cognitive problem, but for most of us it would be labelled "a
stupid mistake" or "a silly mistake". We all make them. Even Olin makes
them - even on list occasionally (although its usually not productive to
point them out). But noting the stupidity of a statement  is NOT THE SAME as
labelling the person saying it as stupid.

Do I say stupid things sometimes? - you bet! (Less than some may believe in
some threads, more so in others*). Am I stupid? Well ..... . I have a
highish IQ. I often act intelligently. And sometimes I behave stupidly. (And
sometimes I'm just plain stupid :-).) I'd hope that people would be gentle
about pointing out my stupid sayings and undertanding in assisting me when
I'm just plain stupid. But I can't complain too much when people do say that
what I said was stupid when it was - and I accept it as well when it
APPEARED to be.

I'd hope that we could also accept such from Olin - perhaps with a littel
"guidance" along the way. Far better to have Olin (and Mr Engineering Info)
here we we can shape them to our will than off in the world as a wild
cannon - provided that they can be persuaded to largely very very conform.

I personally thought that the unbelievable anatomical revelation about Olin
was far ruder than Olin's comment, provocation notwithstanding. And I felt
that some "self criticism" may be approriate :-) - but I also felt that that
was not a list-removing demeanour.

But, sadly,  I rather feel that the wind is going to be blowing unfavourably
for me on this occasion.



       Russell McMahon

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2004\09\17@231026 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
> Well you and Olin and the rest of the list are not getting an apology.
> Jinx was correct in pointing out that I was wrong about the 52 weeks and
> did so in the correct way.  Olin comment was just plain WRONG.  But then
> again, Olin already has a LONG history of being VERY VERY VERY rude to
> members on the list.  Since he can't seem to keep his mouth shut and not
> be rude, I will treat him in the manner that he likes to treat others.
> I will treat him in a VERY VERY VERY rude way.

Regardless of your attitude/opinion toward Owen, language like you used has
NO, NIL, NADA place on this forum. Would you cuss someone out in person in
front of 2000 random people (some of them quite young, I am sure)?

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

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2004\09\17@231528 by Bob Ammerman

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> Mr. Lathrop is no longer with the PICList... Again... For good...
>
> ---
> James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!

Are you kidding? Sure Olin was a bit rude, but the post he commented on
really was funny. I think that "Engineering Info" grossly overreacted.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

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2004\09\17@232658 by Peter van Hoof

picon face
Well said Russell,

I was going to say something like this before signing off but I am not as
good with words.
This must be one of the dumber decisions I have seen here recently.

Adieu
Peter van Hoof

{Original Message removed}

2004\09\17@233451 by Jinx

face picon face
> Would you cuss someone out in person in front of 2000 random
> people (some of them quite young, I am sure)?

If you wanted to put the "cuss" back in "discussion", possibly ;-)

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2004\09\18@004021 by Robert Monsen

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Bob Ammerman wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I agree. Kicking Olin for this was wrong. He can be abrasive, but has
good things to say, and is a valuable member of the list.

>  
>

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2004\09\18@005718 by Russell McMahon

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Ancient message disgorment service.
Version 1.0.00.0

{Quote hidden}

___________________________

So true. The theory of relativity as applied to human social interaction. I
tend to look at it as probabilities. The nicer your post, the less chance
there is of offending.

And this leads to using a "fuzzy logic" approach to figure out what action
is best for the list as a whole. On the one had, this makes it very hard to
"justify" or explain my decisions. On the other hand, it does, in fact, make
it possible for me to be influenced by my own personal bias.

On the gripping hand, it seems to have worked well.

James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin

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I guess you can only go round this loop so many times/
Seems a shame though.

Those who do not learm from history are doomed to repeat it.
Can't think what the lesson was though :-(



           RM

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2004\09\18@011748 by David P Harris

picon face
Robert Monsen wrote:

>> Are you kidding? Sure Olin was a bit rude, but the post he commented on
>> really was funny. I think that "Engineering Info" grossly overreacted.
>
>
> I agree. Kicking Olin for this was wrong. He can be abrasive, but has
> good things to say, and is a valuable member of the list.

I agree, too.  Olin's comment was not too terrible, and his contibutions
outweigh his recent transgression.
David


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2004\09\18@030244 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> I was going to say something like this before signing off but
> I am not as good with words.
> This must be one of the dumber decisions I have seen here recently.
>
> Adieu

This list is maitained by a few people who give a lot of time to this
unthankfull work. For right or wrong, they are the ones who make the
decisions (they are also the ones who have to live with the
consequences, including on-list and off-list discussions). If you think
their administration should chance its course why not join them, I'm
sure they would welcome the extra help!

Wouter van Ooijen

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consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


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2004\09\18@031042 by Win Wiencke

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<Bob Ammerman wrote in part>

>Are you kidding? Sure Olin was a bit rude, but the post he
> commented on  really was funny. I think that "Engineering Info"
> grossly overreacted.

I agree.  Olin seemed to be reacting with good humor.  Engineering Info
clearly crossed a line.

Win Wiencke

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2004\09\18@090236 by Howard Winter

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Sad, really sad.  I'm not one for taking sides, but I
will miss Olin's contributions muchly!

Russell said it well, and I agree with what he said.


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


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2004\09\18@094129 by Russell McMahon

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> I agree.  Olin seemed to be reacting with good humor.  Engineering Info
> clearly crossed a line.

I agree. But, it's far easier to see the "good humour" in something when you
are a bystander or the one being humorous. It's not overly hard to be both
funny and laid back and also cutting and hurtful at the same time. Some
manage it better than others.


       Russell McMahon
.

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2004\09\18@100356 by Russell McMahon

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> Sad, really sad.  I'm not one for taking sides, but I
> will miss Olin's contributions muchly!
>
> Russell said it well, and I agree with what he said.

Please note that I'm not criticising James.
I may not agree with some decisions he makes, and I may try and alter them,
but hopefully this can be done without being critical.
The distinction may seem a fine one, but hopefully it's real.

I wouldn't want James job and I appreciate the effort that he and the admins
go to on our behalf. Sadly, most of us (including me) largely only think to
say this after things blow up, as they occasionally do. It would be nice if
a few more people (who me?!) put a little $ resource into the list so that
the owner didn't have to be out of pocket as well as spending much time.

Any comments that I make about keeping Olin on have extremely little to do
with his usefulness (even though he is useful). He's another person who's on
the list (or was) because he wants to be here and gets something from being
part of the family. All such are worth putting a little effort into. But I'm
glad I don't have the task of making decisions about such things.




           Russell McMahon

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2004\09\18@115916 by Sascha

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Although Olin polished me some time ago and for a spelling error (I have
misspelled done by adding another n so no big deal but he was very
aggressive with his comment) my response was nor rude at all. I said that
when he's going to speak Romanian (which is my mother's tongue) and one more
foreign language as good as I can speak English and German then I will allow
him to make such a drama about a spelling error. I bet he's not typing 100%
error free ;). But responding to he's funny but aggressive reply using such
words... He's not the one to be kicked if you ask me... And as far as I can
remember he's contribution to this list is quite massive. And because I
cannot express me as good as I would wish in English I have to say thank you
Russell for putting it in such a good manner.

Best regards to you all,
Sascha


{Original Message removed}

2004\09\18@164235 by Dave King

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At the risk of getting an Olinesqe exit it isn't week 54 in 92 (as there
are only 52 in a year we knew this) it is most likely a batch code. ie
batch 54 of 1992.

Dave


{Quote hidden}

The only thing that helps me maintain my slender grip on reality
is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes

\|/ ____ \|/
~@-/ oO \-@~
  /_( \__/ )_\
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A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...
but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying,
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2004\09\18@171237 by Win Wiencke

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> > I agree.  Olin seemed to be reacting with good humor.  Engineering Info
> > clearly crossed a line.

< Russell McMahon observed>
> I agree. But, it's far easier to see the "good humour" in
> something when you  are a bystander or the one being
>  humorous. It's not overly hard to be both
> funny and laid back and also cutting and hurtful at the
> same time. Some  manage it better than others.

Absolutely true.  A sharp tongue isn't necessary or helpful.

But engineering without criticism  is dangerous stuff.

Engineering Info's outburst contributed nothing, at least Olin's contained
some information (which, to Olin's credit, I'll admit I too missed
initially).

Win Wiencke

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2004\09\18@172858 by Win Wiencke

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<Dave King observed in part>
>Isn't week 54 in 92 (as there
> are only 52 in a year we knew this) it is most likely a batch code. ie
> batch 54 of 1992.

As good a guess as any.

I have no idea how many "batches" a foundry might make -- or even what would
consitiute a batch (a single wafer? a single crystal? a single etching?).
54 "batches" suggests that the chip was made in some volume.

I'd be curious about what in the foundry process lends itself to a tracking
number (as distinct from a mask number).

Win Wiencke

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2004\09\18@223738 by Dave Lag

picon face
Wow, I'm not seeing a whole 'lotta responses to the original problem.

I would think with the dotcom bust that a board for an older key system
would be available from a north american telephony jobber or auctionhouse.
Probably cheaper that a replacement chip or repair.
D
snip.....

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2004\09\19@031040 by Lee Jones

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> Mr. Lathrop is no longer with the PICList... Again... For good...

Olin's latest "transression" was to make a humorous comment when
someone else made a careless error.

I think James over-reacted and should not have done this.

Anyone self-important enough to title themselves "Engineering
Info", should make sure their posts are correct.  And if not, then
take any corrections with good grace.  If you're going to speak in
front of a large public audience, you have to either be (1) right
or (2) thick skinned.  This person _way_ over-reacted to Olin's
flippant correction.

                                               Lee Jones

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2004\09\19@041408 by James Newtons Massmind

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THANK YOU!

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> {Original Message removed}

2004\09\19@041653 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
No, that is exactly what people SHOULD post! No hate, simple correction,
better advice.

THANK YOU!

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> {Original Message removed}

2004\09\19@052250 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
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NB: I've no personal complaint against Lee at all. I'd just like to make
some comments on his comments. Certainly don't want to annoy or abuse in any
way:

Lee said -

> Olin's latest "transression" was to make a humorous comment when
> someone else made a careless error.

I think you would be wise to preface that thought with "I think that ...
":-)

Certainly, when I first read it I felt the cutting force of the comment and
I thought that it would have felt far worse to the person who wrote the
original helpful albeit erroneous response. (Which in  no way excuses his
reply). It was only on subquent re-reading that the relative humour of it
became clearer. Olin on a relatively good day.

> I think James over-reacted and should not have done this.

I think that you would be wise to make that "I think all the admins on this
list ..." as they have told us that they acted in concert. [You could also
suggest at the same time that all their mothers wear army boots so you can
be sure you got their attention.]

I think that it would also be wise to read all the comments that the admin
have made on this so far. I would rather that they hadn't done what they
did - even though I deplore Olin's ongoing indiscretions. But the only way
to avoid having list admin do things that you don't like is to run your own
list. Various people have set out to do this from time to time, and I'm not
aware that any have had any great success or longevity. Overall this list is
about the best there is (IMHO of course) and you've got to take the good
with the bad to some extent. If you want to be consulted the next time this
sort of thing happens it's easily arranged - I believe there is always a
shortage of people willing to do admin jobs :-). The hours are poor and the
pay is worse, but at least the perks are terrible.

> Anyone self-important enough to title themselves "Engineering
> Info", should make sure their posts are correct.  And if not, then
> take any corrections with good grace.

Even people with unfortunate pseudonyms deserve equitable treatment until
they demonstrate otherwise.

> If you're going to speak in front of a large public audience,
> you have to either be (1) right
> or (2) thick skinned.

NO!
That's important. Possibly the most important part of this whole affair.
This is not meant to be your average internet list where people with super
egos and vast knowledge lord it over the meek and uninformed. The intended
ethos is that it be something like a family where all can share and learn.
Not quite written down that way perhaps, but if you look at admin comment
over time you'll find it's consistent with that. Beginners are intended to
feel welcome and to find a source of help and encoragement. Maybe not quite
a place of solace and a supply of warm milk, but certainly not school of
hard knocks and shut up while your betters speak. You may feel that the
admin have captured the list and are making it too PC. If you want to be
influential in helping correct the error of their ways there's positions
available.

> This person _way_ over-reacted to Olin's
> flippant correction.

I think most agree that his reaction was excessive. I do. It certainly
didn't do him any good.



       Russell McMahon

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2004\09\19@081229 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> But the only way
> to avoid having list admin do things that you don't like is
> to run your own list.

Better: if you disagree with them (the listadmins) join them! (as Russel
explains)

> Various people have set out to do this from time to
> time, and I'm not
> aware that any have had any great success or longevity.

There is the jahoo piclist. I think the mit piclist is somewhat better,
but I am on both.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


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2004\09\19@092611 by Dennis Crawley

flavicon
face
Thank you Dave, outstanding-simpler idea!
I've found www.ntcp.com/default.html?target=p_912.html&lang=en-us
but I can't see any price there,... so I send then a mail.

Regards,
Dennis crawley
Argentina.

{Original Message removed}

2004\09\19@235657 by Charles Craft

picon face
(slapping self on wrist as I type but can't resist)  :-)

When the Vice President of the U.S. uses foul language in a place as sacred? as the Senate chambers ......

James, can we trade Cheney out for Olin back in?   :-)



{Original Message removed}

2004\09\20@101040 by Sean Alcorn

flavicon
face

On 19 Sep 2004, at 12:41 PM, Dave Lag wrote:

> I would think with the dotcom bust that a board for an older key system
> would be available from a north american telephony jobber or
> auctionhouse.
> Probably cheaper that a replacement chip or repair.

Possibly not in Argentina

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2004\09\20@130609 by Dennis Crawley

flavicon
face
Not at all, Sean.
A new analogic panasonic 8x16 costs 1700U$S plus 13U$S each analogic
phone,...etc.
I've found one provider in US wich sale one refurbish DKS924 at 700$...

Dennis Carwley

{Original Message removed}

2004\09\20@141318 by Peter L. Peres

picon face

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004, Jinx wrote:

>> (54th week of 1992)
>
> It does look like a date code but I think you'll find 1992 wasn't
> exceptional, weeks-in-a-year-wise ;-)))

Maybe they put in 2 weeks overtime  that year ? Anyway who're you to judge
that ? ;-)

Peter
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2004\09\20@144258 by Peter L. Peres

picon face

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004, Win Wiencke wrote:

> <Dave King observed in part>
>> Isn't week 54 in 92 (as there
>> are only 52 in a year we knew this) it is most likely a batch code. ie
>> batch 54 of 1992.
>
> As good a guess as any.
>
> I have no idea how many "batches" a foundry might make -- or even what would
> consitiute a batch (a single wafer? a single crystal? a single etching?).
> 54 "batches" suggests that the chip was made in some volume.
>
> I'd be curious about what in the foundry process lends itself to a tracking
> number (as distinct from a mask number).

Some people simply count the batches, period. Others cuont the batches per
year. Others put in a datecode. The latter is most likely for 'evergreen'
chips (manufactured over several years). I believe that the telecom chip
the op was seeking was not an evergreen so it could have been the batch
number, period.

Peter
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2004\09\22@005957 by Peter L. Peres

picon face


On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Sean Alcorn wrote:

>
> On 19 Sep 2004, at 12:41 PM, Dave Lag wrote:
>
>> I would think with the dotcom bust that a board for an older key system
>> would be available from a north american telephony jobber or auctionhouse.
>> Probably cheaper that a replacement chip or repair.
>
> Possibly not in Argentina

Ebay works in Argentina too

Peter
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2004\09\22@052127 by Sean Alcorn

flavicon
face

On 22 Sep 2004, at 9:36 AM, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> Ebay works in Argentina too

um! Missed my point entirely.

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