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'[EE] Extra driver channels ULN2003'
2008\06\20@075914 by Tomás Ó hÉilidhe

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I'm using a ULN2003 in my current project to light LED's. The ULN2003
has 7 channels; I need 9 channels however. I could of course get two
ULN2003's, but I reckon it'd be more economical just to get two NMOS
transistors for the final two channels.

Would an FDN337 be preferable for this?

I know I could use a BC337 but then I'd need a resistor for the base.

Here's my requirements:

   * On when base/gate is 5 V
   * Off when base/gate is 0 V
   * Able to pass 30 mA DC

Can anyone suggest a setup? So far I'm just thinking of going with the
FDN337

Also, while I'm asking the question: Can the UDN2981 be used exactly
like the ULN2003? Or does it need resistors going into the input? Are
the inputs active-high or active-low? What transistor would you use if
you wanted an extra channel, FDN338 maybe?

2008\06\20@083738 by Apptech

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> I'm using a ULN2003 in my current project to light LED's.
> The ULN2003
> has 7 channels; I need 9 channels however. I could of
> course get two
> ULN2003's, but I reckon it'd be more economical just to
> get two NMOS
> transistors for the final two channels.
>
> Would an FDN337 be preferable for this?

Overkill. But would work well.


> Also, while I'm asking the question: Can the UDN2981 be
> used exactly
> like the ULN2003? Or does it need resistors going into the
> input? Are
> the inputs active-high or active-low? What transistor
> would you use if
> you wanted an extra channel, FDN338 maybe?

You are certainly going to get adverse responses to that
question, so let me jump in first.

That answer will give people the impression that you haven't
tried to find out yourself, and that you expect other people
to spend their time doing for you what you could do for
yourself by looking at the data sheet.

NOW    it may be that the impressions given are incorrect.
And they may not be. If you both do a small amount of
research first and also mention even ever so briefly what
you have done it lets people know that you are trying, and
that you are not free-loading, and will encourage them to
assist. it would also give people a better indication of
your level of experience as, if you asked questions like
those above after having had an honest attempt first off
with the data sheet, then it tells people about the sort of
approach that will be of most help.

Failing to not only do a moderate amount of 'due diligence'
AND also to briefly state what you have done will have the
likes of Olin and Jan wading in waving wet fish and
muttering about phases of the moon, and worse.

So, all that said:

UDN2981

   http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Part_Numbers/2981/2981.pdf

A useful device.
Low side in, high side out equivalent to ULN280x/ULN200x
Examination of data sheet says you need no Rin, can drive
with up to 20 volts (25 one version) and that Vin may be
able to be under a volt but that 2.4V is an approved value.


       Russell

2008\06\20@092848 by Tomás Ó hÉilidhe

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Apptech wrote:
> That answer will give people the impression that you haven't
> tried to find out yourself, and that you expect other people
> to spend their time doing for you what you could do for
> yourself by looking at the data sheet.
>  

I don't expect people to go through a datasheet.

I'm asking a question to which someone might have the answer. Here's how
it works:

   Person 1: Why should you always connect the positive terminal first
when you're jump-starting a car?
   Person 2: Coz if you connect the negative one first, and then
accidentally drop the positive lead onto the car body, you'll get sparks.
   Person 1: Oh right, I see, thanks!

The following are NOT answers:
   i) Person 2: Go away and think about it
   ii) Person 2: Read the book "Car Jumping" by Philip B. Eisenhower.

If someone is too pretentious / arrogant / "live on a pedestal" to help
me out then they can f*** off. Posting a reply such as "RTFM" achieves
no goal, and only servers to cement their reputation as being a
pretentious arrogant prick.

There's been plenty of rants on the list lately, people acting like
housewives, and I'm not going to get into it. If you don't want to
answer my questions then don't reply, it's a simple as that. Don't be a
woman about it.

2008\06\20@093038 by Nicola Perotto

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Apptech wrote:
> That answer will give people the impression that you haven't
> tried to find out yourself, and that you expect other people
> to spend their time doing for you what you could do for
> yourself by looking at the data sheet.
>
>  
You are quite annoying...


2008\06\20@101857 by Apptech

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Read this carefully, or not at all:

> Apptech wrote:
>> That answer will give people the impression that you
>> haven't
>> tried to find out yourself, and that you expect other
>> people
>> to spend their time doing for you what you could do for
>> yourself by looking at the data sheet.

> You are quite annoying...

Be that as it may, I assure you with certainty that if I did
not gently annoy, the ones who would come after me would
make the same points with boots violence arrogance and more.

I invite you to ***CAREFULLY*** read what I wrote again, and
in context. See exactly what point it was that I was making
and what I was trying to achieve.

As a starter, in the above, note the words "... will give
people the impression ...". This is completely true. That is
exactly what will happen. And some people who get such an
impression haven't got enough creativity to wonder whether
there may be more to it than that. So they just wade on in
shouting abuse and abbreviations about copulation which they
assume, incorrectly, makes it OK to say what is not nice to
otherwise say. And in no time flat we are all yelling at
each other.

Do note what I said in the bit that you deleted following
what you quoted:

I said

> NOW    it may be that the impressions given are incorrect.
> And they may not be.

I find it, in turn, quite annoying that you would
effectively misquote me by removing those words. The aim was
to advise on the impression that was certainly being
conveyed, BEFORE others said it in a far worse manner. FWIW.



       Russell


2008\06\20@102503 by olin piclist

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Tomás Ó hÉilidhe wrote:
> The following are NOT answers:
>     i) Person 2: Go away and think about it
>     ii) Person 2: Read the book "Car Jumping" by Philip B. Eisenhower.

Actually they can be very useful answers depending on context.

>  If someone is too pretentious / arrogant / "live on a pedestal" to
> help me out then they can f*** off.

OK, you've just blown whatever good will you had here.  Russell said nothing
you should have gotten hot and bothered about.  He was actually trying to
help you, and did so politely.  You would do well to remember you're asking
2000 people for a favor whenever you post a question.

> Posting a reply such as "RTFM" achieves no goal

Of course it does, as has already been enumerated, so I won't repeat.

> There's been plenty of rants on the list lately, people acting like
> housewives, and I'm not going to get into it.

You just did, and in a worse way than those you complain about.

> If you don't want to
> answer my questions then don't reply, it's a simple as that.

No it's not, since that doesn't serve the purposes previously described.

> Don't be a woman about it.

And now you've offended every female member of this list for no reason.

If you want free help from people that have lots of other things they could
be doing, it's a real good idea to:

1 - Be humble about it.  After all, you're asking for a favor.  You are not
owed a answer.

2 - Don't get upset if you don't get what you want.  You can get all your
money back any time.

3 - Do your homework.  That means do at least the basic reasonable things
anyone with your level of knowledge should know how to do.  And yes, if
you're asking about a electronic device, this means at least having looked
at the datasheet sections that appear to be relevant to your question.  Some
datasheet information is obscure, and we understand that.  But remember that
the people you are asking have probably read the datasheet thoroughly, so
they know what information is clearly and directly presented right where
anyone would find if they bothered to look.  If you ask one of those
questions, don't be surprised, and you have no right to be offended, if the
answer is "RTFM".

4 - If you have done your homework and are still confused, explain that.
People are very willing to help if they see you've tried.  Cite the
paragraph in the manual that you don't understand.  People will fall over
each other to answer that kind of question.

If you look back, you will find a lot of people did try to help you with a
number of questions, including Russell who you just got upset at.  After
this tirade, you're not likely to get much help here until you go away and
cool off for a while, then come back with a better attitude.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2008\06\20@103443 by olin piclist

face picon face
Apptech wrote:
> I find it, in turn, quite annoying that you would
> effectively misquote me by removing those words. The aim was
> to advise on the impression that was certainly being
> conveyed, BEFORE others said it in a far worse manner. FWIW.

That'll teach you to be a do-gooder.  ;-)

********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2008\06\20@105759 by Apptech

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> Apptech wrote:
>> I find it, in turn, quite annoying that you would
>> effectively misquote me by removing those words. The aim
>> was
>> to advise on the impression that was certainly being
>> conveyed, BEFORE others said it in a far worse manner.
>> FWIW.

> That'll teach you to be a do-gooder.  ;-)

:-)

"O' wad some gift the giftie gie us ... "

Hangs in my workshop.
Usually fail to notice it until after whatever.
:-)


       R

2008\06\20@110159 by Richard Seriani, Sr.

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomás Ó hÉilidhe" <spam_OUTtoeTakeThisOuTspamlavabit.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <.....piclistKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [EE] Extra driver channels ULN2003


{Quote hidden}

First, I'm not sure what, in Ireland, constitutes "acting like houswives" or
being "a woman about it". My maternal grandfather was Irish and I don't ever
recall him denigrating a woman or using those terms to describe someone's
actions . Your use of them to describe those who respond to your posts in a
manner you consider to be unacceptable sounds, to use your words, both
pretentious and arrogant.

Simplistic questions (your jumper example) to which there may be only one
correct answer aren't the problem.

IF you ask a question which I may be able to help with, I won't do it by
responding off the top of my head. First, if I am not familiar with the way
you are doing something, I'll ask questins. If you are using a component I
am not familiar with, I have to research it in order to find out if the
component I use has better specs or prices differently. Even if you are
using a device I am familiar with, I don't have the datasheets memorized. In
most cases, it takes time and effort to formulate a reply.

If I understand your post, you believe you are owed answers to any
question/request that you post, regardless of any effort on your part.
Anyone who doesn't care to provide you with anything other than exact anwers
need not bother replying.

Does that about sum it up?

I enjoy helping people. It is why, in addition to my regular job, I teach
hands-on electronics labs at a local university. I expect my students to
call and email with their questions, and many do. I understand that this
material is new to them and I will do everything I can to help them learn
it. They understand that if they haven't spent at least some time doing
research before they contact me, I will direct them to the appropriate
reference. I firmly believe that we learn best that which we put some effort
into learning. My own 60 years of learning and several years of teaching in
both military and civilian environments has reinforced that.

I hope your email was sent before you thought about it and that you aren't
really trying to alienate an entire newsgroup. Sometimes, the speed with
which we can type and send messages can be a curse. If not, I'll take your
advice onboard and not reply to further post, lest I upset you with a less
than adequate response.

Richard

2008\06\20@111715 by Nicola Perotto

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Apptech wrote:
> Read this carefully, or not at all:
>  
I read always carefully.
> Be that as it may, I assure you with certainty that if I did
> not gently annoy, the ones who would come after me would
> make the same points with boots violence arrogance and more.
>
> I invite you to ***CAREFULLY*** read what I wrote again, and
> in context. See exactly what point it was that I was making
> and what I was trying to achieve.
>
> As a starter, in the above, note the words "... will give
> people the impression ...".
You are an hypocrite.

>
> I find it, in turn, quite annoying that you would
> effectively misquote me by removing those words. The aim was
> to advise on the impression that was certainly being
> conveyed, BEFORE others said it in a far worse manner. FWIW.
>
>
>         Russell
>  
You are trolling and causing flames...
      Nicola

2008\06\20@115651 by Apptech

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> You are trolling and causing flames...

Trolling:    Absolutely not.

Causing flames:    Maybe. But the intention, and inddeed the
result was to 'get in first' before somebody said what I
said far more rudely and far less helpfully.

Read my answer.
Then answer:

- Did I answer the questions asked precisely and usefully?
- Was I rude?
- Did I say anything that was not either factual or
reasonable.
- Why do you thunk that ? :-)


       Russell




2008\06\20@140621 by Nicola Perotto

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Apptech wrote:
>> You are trolling and causing flames...
>>    
>
> Trolling:    Absolutely not.
>
> Causing flames:    Maybe. But the intention, and inddeed the
> result was to 'get in first' before somebody said what I
> said far more rudely and far less helpfully.
>
> Read my answer.
> Then answer:
>
> - Did I answer the questions asked precisely and usefully?
>  
Yes
> - Was I rude?
>  
No. But I think that the border between 'rude' and 'synthetic' is thin.
So if someone sometime crosses the border I think that must not be a
problem.
I often am rude. But until I stay polite I'm okay with myself and with
others.
> - Did I say anything that was not either factual or reasonable.
>  
Yes!
> - Why do you thunk that ? :-)
>  
Aside the technical response , you are causing flames!
And you are not alone...
>
>         Russell
>
>  
I'm very sorry of not been able to argue well in english...
Cheers
       Nicola


2008\06\20@151913 by Dario Greggio

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Olin Lathrop wrote:

>>Don't be a woman about it.
>
> And now you've offended every female member of this list for no reason.

are there any?? :)))

--
Ciao, Dario

2008\06\20@160657 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
Nicola Perotto wrote:

> You are quite annoying...

Hi Nicola, did you mean "boring" :) i.e. the "false friend" ?

--
Ciao, Dario

2008\06\20@163055 by Nicola Perotto

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Dario Greggio wrote:
> Nicola Perotto wrote:
>
>  
>> You are quite annoying...
>>    
>
> Hi Nicola, did you mean "boring" :) i.e. the "false friend" ?
>
>  
Ciao Dario,
yes! You are right!
I haven't time to take a good english course... sigh...


2008\06\20@182211 by Apptech

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> Dario Greggio wrote:
>> Nicola Perotto wrote:
>>
>>
>>> You are quite annoying...
>>>
>>
>> Hi Nicola, did you mean "boring" :) i.e. the "false
>> friend" ?
>>
>>
> Ciao Dario,
> yes! You are right!
> I haven't time to take a good english course... sigh...

Then, critiquing what other people are saying in English is
a dangerous choice, alas.

Notice that the large majority of English speakers would see
no link whatsoever between the words

   boring    and    false friend.

I do not know what words you are intending but that's not
what would be conveyed to most people on this list.


           Russell


2008\06\20@185245 by sergio masci

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On Sat, 21 Jun 2008, Apptech wrote:

{Quote hidden}

You were being accused of not being genuine.

Regards
Sergio Masci

2008\06\20@193111 by Apptech

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{Quote hidden}

I understand that from the discussion that followed.

BUT neither "boring" nor "annoying" means anything like 'not
being genuine' in English. An English as first language
speaker would *NEVER* use those words to mean that OR
understand those words to mean that.

I have of course no problem with people having trouble with
English, or trying hard to use it.
BUT in such cases it is probably extremely wise to assume
that the speaker may not mean what you think he does.

In this case I was completely genuine.
I have been called a liar several times now by several
people over this (although the word liar was not used).
For myself it matters little, as I know what I said and why
I said it (and Tomás Ó hÉilidhe knows as well, which is what
matters most here).
BUT it is sad to see people consistently insist on neither
reading well what I wrote or trying to understand the evil
that I was seeking to avoid by writing.


 regards


           Russell

2008\06\20@194108 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
Apptech wrote:
> Notice that the large majority of English speakers would see
> no link whatsoever between the words
>
>     boring    and    false friend.
>
> I do not know what words you are intending but that's not

Yeah :)
I supposed it is something related to italian.

In italian, "boring" means "noioso" and the verb is "annoiare". Then you
can see the similarity with "annoying", which OTOH means "seccare",
"stufare", "fastidioso".

Hence the "false friend" thing. Such as "factory" -> "fabbrica", but in
italian "fattoria" is the "farm".

Since "annoying" would've been, IMO, a strong word to tell you, I
guessed that Nicola simply used the wrong word due to the above.


--
Ciao, Dario

2008\06\20@194221 by Dario Greggio

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Nicola Perotto wrote:


> yes! You are right!
> I haven't time to take a good english course... sigh...

no problem :) but I just feared that Russel could get upset because of
that :)

(as a matter of fact, sometimes his posts may be boring indeed ...
JOKING of course!! :)) )

--
Ciao, Dario

2008\06\20@202746 by sergio masci

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On Sat, 21 Jun 2008, Apptech wrote:

{Quote hidden}

When you translate, it's not just the words. The guy felt you had made your point and were overstating it, as in "ok you've made your point -> why haven't you stopped -> is this really for my benefit -> you are being disingenuious about wanting to help me"

At least that's what came over to me.

> An English as first language > speaker would *NEVER* use those words to mean that OR > understand those words to mean that.
> > I have of course no problem with people having trouble with > English, or trying hard to use it.
> BUT in such cases it is probably extremely wise to assume > that the speaker may not mean what you think he does.

I agree, but communication is a two way thing. It's no good just giving him the benefit of the doubt. You also need to make your side of the conversation easier to understand

> > In this case I was completely genuine.
> I have been called a liar several times now by several > people over this (although the word liar was not used).
> For myself it matters little, as I know what I said and why > I said it (and Tomás Ó hÉilidhe knows as well, which is what > matters most here).
> BUT it is sad to see people consistently insist on neither > reading well what I wrote or trying to understand the evil > that I was seeking to avoid by writing.
>
People are not "insisting on misunderstanding" you. Lately you seem to be going over the top with your writing style. You really need to make your statements shorter and simpler.

Best Regards
Friendly Regards
Best wishes
Hugs and kisses
:-)

Sergio Masci

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2008\06\20@203919 by Jinx

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> in italian "fattoria" is the "farm"

What do you call a "fat farm" then ?

2008\06\21@072929 by Dario Greggio

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Jinx wrote:

> What do you call a "fat farm" then ?

hmmm, "fattoria di ciccioni" ? :)

--
Ciao, Dario

2008\06\21@185203 by Dennis Crawley

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Ciao Dario e Nicola,
It happens!
Ha ha,...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBr_gPqYTnQ&feature=related

grazie per rinovare la sanguine nel nostro elenco

I've choosed to ignore the comments and *opinions* on how must be asked the
questions.
I'm agree on RTM before a question... If I feel the question don't deserves
my time, I just ignore it.

Usually, I'm not well prepared to answer it or my lack of good grammar makes
the task to write an e-mail a long one. (very annoying!) ... ma non
m'annoio! :)

Cheers rgds,
Dennis.
bit argentina = on.


On Friday, June 20, 2008 5:28 PM [GMT-3=CET],
Nicola Perotto  wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2008\06\21@230038 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
Dennis Crawley wrote:

> Ha ha,...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBr_gPqYTnQ&feature=related

:)) very nice one!

> grazie per rinovare la sanguine nel nostro elenco

...which means... ??? :)))


--
Ciao, Dario

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