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'[EE] Energy coil'
2006\05\01@220308 by Mark Jordan

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Now that's very weird:  

http://www.overunity.com/stevenmark/  

See those videos!  


2006\05\02@015318 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> Now that's very weird:  
> http://www.overunity.com/stevenmark/  

yes, a weird list of files.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\05\02@065207 by Sean Schouten

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They probably live really near to overhead powerlines or something of that
nature...

Sean

2006\05\02@065749 by Sean Schouten

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On 5/2/06, Sean Schouten <spam_OUTdev.seantechTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> They probably live really near to overhead powerlines or something of that
> nature...
>
> Sean
>


The guys name is Steven Marks  and his creation is called a Toroid
generator:
www.google.co.uk/search?q=steven+mark+toroid+generator&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

2006\05\02@140853 by McReynolds, Alan A

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Odd that these generators make just the right voltage and current to
provide stable power for an household incandescent light.

That constant ~75W output ought to make a great battery recharger.  I
trust this 'inventor' drives an electric car ;-)

...Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: .....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu [piclist-bouncesspamKILLspammit.edu] On Behalf
Of Mark Jordan
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 7:03 PM
To: .....piclistKILLspamspam.....mit.edu
Subject: [EE] Energy coil


Now that's very weird:  

http://www.overunity.com/stevenmark/  

See those videos!  

2006\05\02@145432 by Roy

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part 1 650 bytes content-type:text/plain; (decoded 7bit)


Well this link confirms some suspicions :-)

STEVEN MARK THE CONMAN


http://www.angelfire.com/film/stevenmark0/


_______________________________________

Roy Hopkins
Tauranga
New Zealand
_______________________________________


> -----Original Message-----
> From: EraseMEpiclist-bouncesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu [piclist-bouncesspamspam_OUTmit.edu] On
Behalf
> Of Sean Schouten
> Sent: Tuesday, 2 May 2006 10:52 p.m.
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [EE] Energy coil
>
> They probably live really near to overhead powerlines or something of
that
> nature...
>
> Sean
> -

2006\05\02@145627 by M. Adam Davis

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Interesting too that each demonstration lasts for less than 5 minutes
of "run time", requiring less than (for the 9 bulb light string) 12
watt hours of power. A 2AH Li-Ion battery costs $12, and has 7.4WH of
power.

If he weren't a fraud he would be a billionare.  Given that he's not a
billionare, he must be a fraud.  He only needs to demonstrate his
device a few times a year to pull in a few hundred thousand in funding
to "complete development" and he can go on indefinitely.  Given a good
NDA, and very tight controls on publicity he can dupe a lot of
investors since they can't publicize the fraud so others don't fall
into the trap.  They also don't want to publicize it as it may hurt
their funds if their investors see how they've used their money.

It's a pretty solid scam.  He seems to have some history in learning
how to run these shows prior to this particular device.

I imagine there's a list out there of things you need to do to pull a
good con.  Such a list might include:
- appear to be a regular person, not an intellectual ("We see an
effect when I turn the coil upside down - it drops in voltage.  I
don't know why that is, but I'm close to an answer")
- drag the con on as long as there's money ("We have a few main
problems, heat, orientation, etc which we now know how to overcome.
We expect it will take a year and $x in funding to develop the next
generation prototype without these issues")
- Involved all of the target's senses in the demonstration (hot
lightbulb, feel vibrations of coil, scent of overheated electrical
tape, sight of bright light, sound of motors, good catering)
- promise of exceptional [wealth|celebrity|happiness|etc]

etc.

Who wants to take bets on how long until a con artist reality show is
developed?  It'd be an easy trip from American Inventor/Apprentice to
American Con Artist.  14 con artists attempt to trick several judges
into giving them the prize while also foiling their competitors.  The
judges are also reality contestants who believe they are on the
"average joe venture capitalist" reality show and are attempting to
select the best investment available and get the best return on
investment compared to their competitors.  They'll be fighting over
the best con artists, who will be fighting over the best venture
capitalists.

I wonder why the sky suddenly darkened...

-Adam

On 5/2/06, McReynolds, Alan A <@spam@alan.mcreynoldsKILLspamspamhp.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\05\02@151816 by John Pfaff

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There was a reality con-artist show, about a year or two ago IIRC.  It
was this guy (an admitted con artist) that would set out to try to get
things for free.  I remember one time he got his apartment cleaned by
pretty women for free.  It didn't last very long.

M. Adam Davis wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>> --

2006\05\02@170250 by Aaron

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I like the spot in the 1st video where he says the current output of his
device is 25 watts.

Aaron

McReynolds, Alan A wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2006\05\02@184705 by Mark Jordan

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On 2 May 2006 at 14:56, M. Adam Davis wrote:

> Interesting too that each demonstration lasts for less than 5 minutes
> of "run time", requiring less than (for the 9 bulb light string) 12
> watt hours of power. A 2AH Li-Ion battery costs $12, and has 7.4WH of
> power.

       You should read the link below before jumping to conclusions:  

       http://www.overunity.com/index.php/board,49.0.html  


>
> It's a pretty solid scam.  He seems to have some history in learning
> how to run these shows prior to this particular device.
>
       Maybe not. Read the above link.



2006\05\02@184707 by Mark Jordan

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       Here you can read the real story directly from Mr. Steven:

       http://www.overunity.com/index.php/board,49.0.html



2006\05\02@191120 by David VanHorn

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>
>
> > It's a pretty solid scam.  He seems to have some history in learning
> > how to run these shows prior to this particular device.
> >
>        Maybe not. Read the above link.


It's BULLSHIT.

You can't get more out than you put in, in one form or another.
You can't extract energy from a static magnetic field.
The earth's field is VERY weak.


--
> Feel the power of the dark side!  Atmel AVR

2006\05\02@192905 by Carey Fisher

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Mark Jordan wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Free Energy is ALWAYS, repeat ALWAYS, repeat ALWAYS a SCAM.

Carey

2006\05\02@205317 by James Newtons Massmind

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> Who wants to take bets on how long until a con artist reality
> show is developed?  It'd be an easy trip from American
> Inventor/Apprentice to American Con Artist.  14 con artists
> attempt to trick several judges into giving them the prize
> while also foiling their competitors.  The judges are also
> reality contestants who believe they are on the "average joe
> venture capitalist" reality show and are attempting to select
> the best investment available and get the best return on
> investment compared to their competitors.  They'll be
> fighting over the best con artists, who will be fighting over
> the best venture capitalists.
>
> I wonder why the sky suddenly darkened...
>
> -Adam

I would watch that and very much recommend it to my friends. Imagine the
humor: Watching a show about cons which is paid for by advertisements...

The con is under-appreciated as an educational medium. I always enjoy a good
con and (at least try to) take the attitude that what ever I've been con'd
out of was worth less than the education I received from the experience.

After all, if someone doesn't part the fools from their money...

...then the fools use the money foolishly.

Oh wait, we have that already: Consumerism. What ever happened to "Buyer
beware?" Or buying from someone you know instead of from the faceless mill
of underpaid employees at Mall Wart? Is it really worth paying a little bit
less so you can over fill your stomach with "food" that was produced with no
goal other than profit? I mean, the purpose of a corporation is to... What?
Anyone? Right! Turn a profit. And then there is a period. Nothing after it.
So food from factory farms is: Profitable for them and good for you?
Healthy? Safe?

No matter what you do to "protect the consumer" someone is going to find a
way to sell the fools on junk they don't need: Lottery, Twinkies, Hummers,
Big Macs, Bottled Water (for pete sake), Reality TV, hormone injected meat,
sugar soda, preservative salad, etc...

Think of con artistry as "trickle UP economics." The money, power, fame,
will  be in the hands of the smartest, most influential, best con. And if
you look around at who has the most money, that was most likely the best con
artist. Gates sold us Windows, Buffet sells us Coke and insurance, Dell
sells cheap computers, Adelson sells us the gamblers fallacy, Ellison sells
Oracle. Most of us have (not?) learned a lesson in con artistry from them.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/10/Worth_1.html

Of course, part of being a good con involves leaving the mark happy, and a
lot of them don't. Think: former Rep: Cunningham (R) California.

If this coil guy has, in fact, been able to go on for years and years
without somebody shooting him, then he must be a true master.

---
James.


2006\05\02@210832 by Mark Jordan

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On 2 May 2006 at 19:29, Carey Fisher wrote:

>  
> Free Energy is ALWAYS, repeat ALWAYS, repeat ALWAYS a SCAM.
>
> Carey
> --


       Solar energy is free.
       Wind energy is free.
       Etc...  Etc...


2006\05\02@220406 by David VanHorn

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On 5/2/06, James Newtons Massmind <EraseMEjamesnewtonspamspamspamBeGonemassmind.org> wrote:
>
> > Who wants to take bets on how long until a con artist reality
> > show is developed?  It'd be an easy trip from American
> > Inventor/Apprentice to American Con Artist.


Killer!

Give each judge so many dollars to invest, and let them spread it out how
they like, just like real investors.
In the end, expose the cons, and see who did well, and who didn't.
The scammers get to keep the money, as do the real inventors.

2006\05\03@020944 by Wouter van Ooijen

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>        Here you can read the real story directly from Mr. Steven:
>        http://www.overunity.com/index.php/board,49.0.html

That's a discussion forum apparently full of half-informed babble. Which
thread and/or which post do you think contains the 'real story'?


Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\05\03@024611 by Russell McMahon

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> Odd that these generators make just the right voltage and current to
> provide stable power for an household incandescent light.

Just as its fascinating that the recently publicised "Bosnian
Pyramids" are spaced in a triangle with 365 metre long sides. (Maybe
Napoleon was a reincarnated Bosnian?).


       RM

2006\05\03@034628 by Russell McMahon

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>> Free Energy is ALWAYS, repeat ALWAYS, repeat ALWAYS a SCAM.

> Solar energy is free.
>  Wind energy is free.

1.    Not in the sense which this man's device "appears' to generate
it.
All such practical sources simply tap existing energy flows. In fact
ALL energy sources we use now are free and we just tap into them. The
only costs are in shaping the source to our will. Petroleum sits for
fee in its reservoirs. Coal similarly. Sunlight costs money to turn
into electricity or to store in eg hot water.
Wind energy costs money to build "mills" and the like.
My country uses much "free" hydro energy - the sun pumps it into the
sky and it falls for free down the rivers.
The dams, earthworks, turbines, power lines, substations etc do rather
take the shine off it though.

2.    You *cannot* break the laws of physics.
That's because the "laws" of physics are not hard and fast rules but
rather are the best description we can get of how things are observed
to be.
So the best you can do is to discover blind spots in the existing
description set.

The 'laws' of relativity did this to Newtonian gravity.
It is generally expected that something involving quantum mechanics
will sooner or later 'adjust' relativity to be closer to reality.

However, new 'laws' are usually found out near the edges of
established knowledge. When you are working well within the boundaries
it is extremely unlikely that you will stumble across a loophole or
"new law" as this man claims to have done.

A major pillar of the laws that govern our understanding of things are
the laws of thermodynamics. These are

       You can't win

       You can't break even

       You can't get out of the game.

Some people put them differently than this :-) - but this statement of
them is liable to be memorable long term.

Here the known conman is breaking law 1. He is "winning" - ie creating
energy from nothing. While it can be apparently possible to do this in
all sorts of situations this is invariably (so far) due to an
accidental or purposeful (as in this case) oversight of some key part
of the system. eg you may find a magic rock which always stays warm.
Carrying it with you may help keep you warm as well, but may also
render you sterile and induce cancers from the radiation it emits.

When it comes to systems employing magnetism and electricity the
"laws" are exceedingly well known, well proven and "understood". Here
"understood" means they can be described well given all relevant
parameters using a description language which we call mathematics.
Maths and the related descriptions doesn't 'prove' magnetic effects
but it allows us to say what happens with a high degree of accuracy.
It also allows us to establish whether an observed result makes sense.
The present reported results do not. For them to be true a very very
major and very very visible flaw in the well established body of
knowledge must have been inexplicably overlooked for the last 100
years.

Much as we might hope otherwise, Occams Razor (or a little Googling)
suggests that it is far far far more likely that this man is a conman
who dedicates his life to scamming people. Sadly.

The statement about free energy would better read.

Free energy has so far always proven to be a scam, there is every
possible reason to think that any claim of a new source of "free
energy" whether at the edges of known knowledge or not is liable to be
false, BUT there is always the possibility that something will turn up
that is, from our perspective, free."

A truly free energy source will violate the 1st law of
thermodynamics - not something one wants to do lightly :-).
   [[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion]]

The universe was, according to the theory of the moment, created
totally free (big bang) "ex nihilo".

The contending theory which has now fallen on hard times, Fred Hoyle's
"Steady State Creation" theory involves continuous creation of energy
AND the expansion of the universe to maintain energy density.

Both the above theories, which are bankrupt from any rational point of
view, but which may still be true, involve VERY large helpings of
"free energy" by any rational description of the term.

The Casimir effect * may or may not exist. It taps the zero point
energy (which may or may not exist) of the universe and if it ever
could be made to work would provide energy on a scale far above any
other source including  total matter-antimatter annihilation.

But, this guy's a con man.


       Russell McMahon


* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect




2006\05\03@051423 by William Chops Westfield

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> Free Energy is ALWAYS, repeat ALWAYS, repeat ALWAYS a SCAM.

And if it's NOT, it's not clear that tapping unusual energy sources
would be a good idea.  (cf Asimov's "The Gods Themselves")

Consider a hypothetical generator that really does extract energy
from the earth's magnetic field.  Given the strength of the earths
magnetic field (not so strong), and the human appetite for energy
(big, although I don't really know how it compares in absolute
magnitude to things like planetary magnetic fields), do we REALLY
want energy to be sucked out of there?   Losing the earth's magnetic
field could make holes in the ozone layer and global warming look
like TINY problems.

Which brings up the point that any new energy source or generation
technique is going to have to be looked at VERY carefully to see how
its advantages and disadvantages compare to current sources.  The
case against nuclear is a good example, and one wonders how many of
the worlds hydroelectric plants would have been built if we had
had to do the equivalent of todays environmental impact statements.

BillW

2006\05\03@060938 by Lindy Mayfield

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He also says that it doesn't contain a battery capable of putting out that much energy.  That doesn't mean there is not batter, IMHO.  (-:

-----Original Message-----
From: RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu [piclist-bouncesSTOPspamspamspam_OUTmit.edu] On Behalf Of Aaron
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 12:03 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [EE] Energy coil

I like the spot in the 1st video where he says the current output of his
device is 25 watts.

Aaron


2006\05\03@070545 by Russell McMahon

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It being, almost, that day again, this seemed not totally
inappropriate:

Following a link from the discussion group page on the 'free energy'
device lead to this

       http://www.divinecosmos.com/cms/content/view/95/36/

I found these paragraphs and the associated figure 1.4 interesting.

_______________

   Other than the perplexing final item related to consciousness, we
can readily see how each process is disturbing matter in some way,
thus causing it to absorb or release minute amounts of its aetheric
"water," which fits perfectly with our sponge analogy. Even more
importantly, the fact that strong emotional energy could also cause a
measurable at-a-distance reaction has been repeatedly documented, not
just by Dr. Kozyrev but many others, and this is where our concepts of
psychic phenomena and consciousness come into the picture. Such
concepts became even bigger news after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist
attack on the United States, when Dean Radin and his team at the
Institute of Noetic Sciences were able to measure a tremendous change
in the behavior of computerized random-number generators surrounding
the time immediately before and after the attack:

&

   The graph shows that somehow, a change in the mass consciousness
of humanity affected the behavior of electromagnetic energy in
computer circuits around the world, especially those computers nearest
to North America. Later we shall see that this is just the beginning
of a whole new world of "consciousness science." We will suggest that
torsion waves and consciousness are essentially identical
manifestations of intelligent energy.

_________________

What they are saying and showing on their graph is that in the morning
of November 11 2001there was a statistically very significant (3SD+)
alteration in the "electromagnetic energy" fields world wide. To the
extent that it affected the result of computer random number
generators worldwide. An effect that should be able to be investigated
retrospectively even now.

Much, I suppose as in -

   "I felt a great disturbance in the Force...as if millions of
voices
    cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
    I fear something terrible has happened."

Why such people, or for that matter any people, perpetrate such
demonstrable drivel and lies is beyond me. To knowingly make up 'hard'
data, graph it, publish it (if putting it on a page like this one can
be called publishing, in order to attempt to delude the foolish and
justify your shonky dreamings, and then have the gall to add that it
came from "the Institute of Noetic Sciences" is beyond belief, or
excuse. Standard human condition I guess :-)

Such people do great harm to those genuinely seeking to understand the
ununderstandable without resort to fakery and made up data.

You'll get more quality science (and possibly some laughter) here

       http://www.nerf-herders-anonymous.net/Games.html

Search for GuyBrush and read on. I hadn't realised that Yoda had a
Porsche.
If who don't know GuyBrush Threepwood your education isn't complete,
and you've missed some good Orson Scott Card drollery as well (he did
the sword fighting insults in Monkey island, at least)(READ "Ender's
Game" !!!!)

For a different take on 911 but using the same quote for a similar
reason, see the God hating Sagan * society's take at

       http://www.uga.edu/sagan/palevitz_sep2001.html



       RM

* At a vv quick skim the general tenor of the article seems good
enough.
I like their inclusion of

       The Jewish sage Hillel, when challenged to teach the entire
Torah, or Pentateuch, in a flash, responded "Simple. Love thy neighbor
as thyself; all else is commentary."

He's certainly not the only authoratative commentator who has drawn
that conclusion :-).

Sagan ("... but, I may be wrong.") alas hated God too much to be able
to establish the ground rules necessary to research Him properly.

The Noetic Science (sic) people have a different version of the same
problem.




2006\05\03@071454 by Jinx

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> ...then the fools use the money foolishly.
>
> Oh wait, we have that already: Consumerism. What ever happened
> to "Buyer beware?"

People are still willing to believe the best in others ...... "but he
seemed so honest and trustworthy". Well, duh, or he couldn't
have conned you

It seems that "street smarts" need still to be learned, just as they
always have. Even if people may *think* they're more educated
than pervious generations, education is no counter-action to
gullibility. All the good old popular scams (pyramid games, fake
Rolex's) still work. Now you've got mind-boggling technological
devices that look so plausible. The general public simply can't
keep up with all the advancements (alleged or otherwise) and
bewildering electronics etc

2006\05\03@082628 by Howard Winter

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James,

On Tue, 2 May 2006 17:53:08 -0700, James Newtons Massmind wrote:
>...
> the purpose of a corporation is to... What?

A former boss of mine used to say: "There are three important things in this business:  Profit - and the other
two aren't really important!"  :-)

Cheers,



Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\05\03@084532 by Russell McMahon

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> Rolex's) still work. Now you've got mind-boggling technological
> devices that look so plausible. The general public simply can't
> keep up with all the advancements (alleged or otherwise) and
> bewildering electronics etc


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a
rigged demo"


       Isaac Asimov.


A response, no doubt, to Clark's law.




       RM

2006\05\03@093609 by Carey Fisher

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William Chops Westfield wrote:
{Quote hidden}

And other stuff, for example, would the Earth's albedo
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/albedo)
be changed by lots of physically large solar collectors collecting
"free" solar energy?  If so,
how would this affect the Earth?  According to Wikipedia, the Earth's
albedo has already
been changed by foresting etc.

TANSTAAFL !!!
--

*Carey Fisher, Chief Technical Officer
New Communications Solutions, LLC
*spamBeGonecareyfisherSTOPspamspamEraseMEncsradio.com <KILLspamcareyfisherspamBeGonespamncsradio.com>
Toll Free Phone:888-883-5788
Local Phone:770-814-0683
FAX: 888-883-5788
http://www.ncsradio.com <http://www.ncsradio.com/>

2006\05\03@102859 by Russell McMahon

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> And other stuff, for example, would the Earth's albedo
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/albedo)
> be changed by lots of physically large solar collectors collecting
> "free" solar energy?  If so,
> how would this affect the Earth?

At a guess I'd say, largely no.
You'll alter it locally, but even 1 million square miles (1000 x 1000)
is less than 0.5% of the earth's surface. Any civilisation able to
produce E6 mile^2 of solar arrays is liable to be able to play
compensating games with albedo elsewhere.

> According to Wikipedia, the Earth's
> albedo has already
> been changed by foresting etc.
>
> TANSTAAFL !!!

Actually, all the lunches are free :-)
We don't work for the energy, it just arrives. And most ends up as it
would have if we'd left it alone - as low grade heat.

Essentially every enerby source we have comes from stars. Obviously
the sun powers wind, solar, hydro, tidal, plants, ... . But coal and
oil are just old solar byproducts, and fission reactors use star
produced materials. And when we finally get to the Helium 3 on the
Moon's surface it's there (we hope) because it was originally part of
the solar wind).


       RM

2006\05\03@132626 by Peter

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On Tue, 2 May 2006, Mark Jordan wrote:

>        Solar energy is free.
>        Wind energy is free.

Who pays for the gear to collect it ?

Peter

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