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'[EE] DIY Automatic Wire Cutter Idea - Part 2'
2009\03\05@174340 by solarwind

picon face
Here's part 2 of my idea - with a much simpler design. Opinions? Discuss.

http://solar-blogg.blogspot.com/2009/03/diy-automatic-precision-wire-cutter-for.html

--
solarwind

2009\03\05@181037 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
solarwind wrote:
> Here's part 2 of my idea - with a much simpler design. Opinions? Discuss.
>
> http://solar-blogg.blogspot.com/2009/03/diy-automatic-precision-wire-cutter-for.html

Tony described this setup on this list, three weeks ago.


{Original Message removed}

2009\03\07@025205 by Peter

picon face
> Here's part 2 of my idea - with a much simpler design. Opinions? Discuss.

Your machine can only do one end of each wire and uses two cutters/strippers, so
it is more complicated. Their machine (from the youtube video) is clever because
it can do both ends and both strip and cut with one cheap tool. It can also be
programmed to pull off the stripped insulation if necessary. That's why it has
pinch roller drives on both sides of the cutter tool. What you could do is to
use two solenoids for cut and strip respectively, acting on the same tool, as
that would be faster than the screw drive. It would be much louder, however.

Peter


2009\03\08@052705 by Tony Smith

flavicon
face
> > Here's part 2 of my idea - with a much simpler design. Opinions?
Discuss.
>
> Your machine can only do one end of each wire and uses two
cutters/strippers, so
> it is more complicated. Their machine (from the youtube video) is clever
because
> it can do both ends and both strip and cut with one cheap tool. It can
also be
> programmed to pull off the stripped insulation if necessary. That's why it
has
> pinch roller drives on both sides of the cutter tool. What you could do is
to
> use two solenoids for cut and strip respectively, acting on the same tool,
as
> that would be faster than the screw drive. It would be much louder,
however.


Hmmm, so a piece of plywood, one stepper motor, a rubber roller, some shears
and couple of solenoids (or regular motors with cams) is complicated,
whereas multiple laser cut Perspex pieces (plus gears), THREE bipolar
steppers & drivers, two feed rollers, twin screws, 3 microswitches and a
pair of off-the-shelf pliers is clever?

I think you've been using the same dictionary that Vitaliy found socialist
in.

As the saying goes, an engineer is some who can make for 10 cents what any
damn fool can make for a dollar.  E.g. gearing down the stepper is a bit
odd, it should have enough torque to drive the screw directly.  If not, get
a bigger one.  And you only need one screw.  And if you use a cable, you can
ditch the screw.  And why leave the spring on the pliers?

The design by Solarwind can function almost the same as the other design, it
can separate the insulation, but only fully remove it from one end.  You
need to:

       Feed wire
       Close pincers
       Reverse stepper to break insulation        
       Open pincers
       Feed wire
       Close pincers
       Reverse stepper to break insulation
       Open pincers
       Feed wire
       Close shears to cut wire

It's actually better the leave the insulation on anyway, especially with
stranded wire, it stops them getting bent.  If you roll the insulation with
you finger as you remove it, it twists the strands together.  

If you use a stepper to control the pliers, then pincer / shears are the
same unit, you simply control how far to close them.

The one I made used shears to cut the wire, but sharp blades (with depth
control) to cut the insulation.  Pliers do a poor job removing insulation
(they tear, not cut) and blades dull too quickly cutting wire.  The blades
didn't cut all the way around, but it didn't matter in that case.

Tony

2009\03\08@065514 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Tony Smith <spam_OUTajsmithTakeThisOuTspambeagle.com.au> wrote:

> The one I made used shears to cut the wire, but sharp blades (with depth
> control) to cut the insulation.  Pliers do a poor job removing insulation
> (they tear, not cut) and blades dull too quickly cutting wire.  The blades
> didn't cut all the way around, but it didn't matter in that case.
>

I have two different cable stripper. One of them has a special blade system.
On the blades there are half holes with similar size as the wire. When the
two blades are closed it cuts the insulation all the way around, but because
of that hole the wire itself does not cut. The only problem is that there
are many size of holes in that blade and you have to put the wire into the
right hole. Also when you apply it you have to be careful to keep the wire
in position while the blades are closing otherwise it could cut the cable
instead of stripping it.

The other stripper works way better: There is pne pair of straight blades
and a gripper that grips the cable by it's insulation. I just have to put
the cable in it and apply, and the system automatically adjust the blades to
the cable. Yes, it tears the insulation, but the results is surprisingly
good and is way better to handle this tool than the other.

BTW: I still do not know why is this DIY cable cutter and stripper is faster
than cutting the cable manually as for prototyping I just use a solderable
winding wire so no stripping is needed. But when I need hundreds of same
length of cable I just put two nails into a wood with the half distance of
the desired cable length, then wind up the cable and cut one end. Then I use
the stripper I mentioned which works very fast. I was even using this
technique for 3 wire cable stripping all 3 wires together - this part was
very fast, but the crimping took much much more.

Tamas
--
Rudonix DoubleSaver
http://www.rudonix.com

2009\03\08@074218 by Tony Smith

flavicon
face
> > The one I made used shears to cut the wire, but sharp blades (with depth
> > control) to cut the insulation.  Pliers do a poor job removing
insulation
> > (they tear, not cut) and blades dull too quickly cutting wire.  The
blades
> > didn't cut all the way around, but it didn't matter in that case.
> >
> >
> I have two different cable stripper. One of them has a special blade
system.
> On the blades there are half holes with similar size as the wire. When the
> two blades are closed it cuts the insulation all the way around, but
because
> of that hole the wire itself does not cut. The only problem is that there
>
>
> The other stripper works way better: There is pne pair of straight blades
> and a gripper that grips the cable by it's insulation. I just have to put
>
>
> BTW: I still do not know why is this DIY cable cutter and stripper is
faster
> than cutting the cable manually as for prototyping I just use a solderable
> winding wire so no stripping is needed. But when I need hundreds of same
> length of cable I just put two nails into a wood with the half distance of
> the desired cable length, then wind up the cable and cut one end. Then I
use
> the stripper I mentioned which works very fast. I was even using this
> technique for 3 wire cable stripping all 3 wires together - this part was
> very fast, but the crimping took much much more.


I wouldn't make one for my own personal use, I don't need that much wire.
The ones I made were for a company I worked for, they used about 1000-2000
pieces of wire daily.  They only took a few hours to build (from junk) and
paid for themselves in a couple of days.  Nobody liked 'wire duty' so they
were happy.  I also rigged up some crimpers for foot control to save on hand
cramp.  Pneumatic would have been nice.

I've even had a biscuit cutter (wood, not edible) rigged up with foot
control like that once.

I use a stripper like the second one you describe, but I wouldn't if I had
to do over 1,000 pieces per day.

There's many ways to skin a cat, or a wire in this case.  Straight blades
are easier to find (exacto, razor etc) than the special cutters.  The
commercial one linked to before used a circular blade to cut the insulation,
presumable it rotated this around the wire.  Multiple blades let you do
coax, cutting thru the insulation, shield & foam.  Manual coax cutters work
the same way.

I've actually got a project that I need to build a wire cutter for, I should
get started one of these days.

Tony

2009\03\08@082222 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
Yes, I agree for a production quantity it needs something better than
slaves. Like these commercial products:

www.schleuniger.us/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-68/126_read-6916/page-4/
http://www.schleuniger.com/DesktopDefault.aspx/tabid-44/74_read-1602/page-2/

Tamas


On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Tony Smith <.....ajsmithKILLspamspam@spam@beagle.com.au> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2009\03\08@101258 by Tony Smith

flavicon
face
> Yes, I agree for a production quantity it needs something better than
> slaves. Like these commercial products:
>
>
http://www.schleuniger.us/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-68/126_read-6916/page-4/
>
http://www.schleuniger.com/DesktopDefault.aspx/tabid-44/74_read-1602/page-2/


Crikey!

Tony

2009\03\08@111041 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Tony Smith wrote:
> I think you've been using the same dictionary that Vitaliy found socialist
> in.

Huh? :)


> The design by Solarwind can function almost the same as the other design,
> it
> can separate the insulation, but only fully remove it from one end.  You
> need to:

(step numbers added for reference -- VM)

{Quote hidden}

Sounds simple enough. So in your design, after step 10 you still had
insulation on both ends?

Stripping off the insulation, without cutting into the wire sounds like the
hard part. Tamas described one of his manual wire strippers:

> The other stripper works way better: There is pne pair of straight blades
> and a gripper that grips the cable by it's insulation. I just have to put
> the cable in it and apply, and the system automatically adjust the blades
> to
> the cable. Yes, it tears the insulation, but the results is surprisingly
> good and is way better to handle this tool than the other.

IIRC, the way the system "adusts" the blades, is it grips the cable to get
the OD, and makes an assumption about insulation thickness. It does not cut
all the way through.


> If you roll the insulation with
> you finger as you remove it, it twists the strands together.

Maybe the DIY stripper should do this part, too. :)


Vitaliy


2009\03\08@111322 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Tamas Rudnai wrote:
> Yes, I agree for a production quantity it needs something better than
> slaves. Like these commercial products:
>
> www.schleuniger.us/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-68/126_read-6916/page-4/
> http://www.schleuniger.com/DesktopDefault.aspx/tabid-44/74_read-1602/page-2/

Do you know how much they want for each unit? I could not find the price
list.

Vitaliy

2009\03\08@121539 by Tony Smith

flavicon
face
> Tony Smith wrote:
> > I think you've been using the same dictionary that Vitaliy found
socialist
> > in.
>
> Huh? :)
>
>
> > The design by Solarwind can function almost the same as the other
design,
{Quote hidden}

the
> hard part. Tamas described one of his manual wire strippers:
>
> > The other stripper works way better: There is pne pair of straight
blades
> > and a gripper that grips the cable by it's insulation. I just have to
put
> > the cable in it and apply, and the system automatically adjust the
blades
> > to
> > the cable. Yes, it tears the insulation, but the results is surprisingly
> > good and is way better to handle this tool than the other.
>
> IIRC, the way the system "adusts" the blades, is it grips the cable to get
> the OD, and makes an assumption about insulation thickness. It does not
cut
> all the way through.
>
>
> > If you roll the insulation with
> > you finger as you remove it, it twists the strands together.
>
> Maybe the DIY stripper should do this part, too. :)


In my version I use blades to cut thru the insulation, meaning reversing the
stepper to separate the insulation wasn't possible, so you had to remove the
ends manually.  The blades were spring loaded and pivoted, imagine something
like this.

/
    O
\

The blades moved from left to right, rotating about the wire, and then moved
back.

        \
   O
        /

On the wire it didn't cut thru at the 3 & 9 o'clock positions.  Pincers and
reversing the stepper might have worked better.  Once you have a cut in the
insulation, no matter how deep, you get a weak point.  Pulling on the
insulation will make it tear there, which is how the strippers work.  I
can't recall why I went with blades, maybe the stepper didn't have enough
grip to pull the wire back to tear the insulation.  The real reason was I
probably didn't feel like buggering about with the extra control that setup
needed.  Perhaps ROI was perceived as poor.  (Make it work - then stop.)

Tony


Oh, the socialist comment.  :)  

That came from a thread a while back where you were quite happy to accept a
hand-out from the Government, allegedly for child education but more likely
spent on something else.  I objected to this, which somehow made me a
socialist.  Lol.

2009\03\08@121915 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Vitaliy <spamspamKILLspammaksimov.org> wrote:

> >
> www.schleuniger.us/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-68/126_read-6916/page-4/
> >
> http://www.schleuniger.com/DesktopDefault.aspx/tabid-44/74_read-1602/page-2/
>
> Do you know how much they want for each unit? I could not find the price
> list.
>

I have no idea to be honest. I guess you would need to contact them to get a
quote.

Tamas
--
Rudonix DoubleSaver
http://www.rudonix.com

2009\03\08@123850 by Tony Smith

flavicon
face
>
http://www.schleuniger.us/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-68/126_read-6916/page-4/
>
>
http://www.schleuniger.com/DesktopDefault.aspx/tabid-44/74_read-1602/page-2/
>
> Do you know how much they want for each unit? I could not find the price
> list.


Given your reaction to the prices of the other commercial units posted a
while back, I think you'd be better off not knowing.

Tony

2009\03\08@124919 by Derward Myrick

picon face

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Smith" <.....ajsmithKILLspamspam.....beagle.com.au>
To: "'Microcontroller discussion list - Public.'" <EraseMEpiclistspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: [EE] DIY Automatic Wire Cutter Idea - Part 2


>> Yes, I agree for a production quantity it needs something better than
>> slaves. Like these commercial products:


Tony,  I have been using this, MSC-100 Wire Cut and Strip,
for several years and it work great.
http://www.wirestrippers.com/

Also I saw something,on the list, about a crimper.  I have used this for
several
years and found it to be very good.

http://www.heilind.com/products/powercrimper.asp

Derward Myrick  KD5WWI


2009\03\08@131724 by Tony Smith

flavicon
face
> Also I saw something,on the list, about a crimper.  I have used this for
> several
> years and found it to be very good.
>
> http://www.heilind.com/products/powercrimper.asp


That's a rather imposing piece of kit.  Until I find someone to buy it for
me, I think I'll stick with a foot pedal, a bicycle brake cable and a holder
from scrap metal.

Tony

2009\03\08@133128 by solarwind

picon face
Just a note: I bought a wire stripper from my local electronics
surplus store for a very cheap price. It is made out of blades with
various diameter circles along the blades. When the wire is put in
between the blades on the appropriate sized hole, it clamps down just
enough to cut the insulation and not so much as to even damage the
copper. Then when you squeeze the handles, it strips the ends off.
It's not difficult. The device came with an extra "blade" and it was
very inexpensive. Cutting insulation without damage to the copper is
not difficult to do.

2009\03\09@144806 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Tony Smith wrote:
> www.schleuniger.us/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-68/126_read-6916/page-4/
>>
>>
> www.schleuniger.com/DesktopDefault.aspx/tabid-44/74_read-1602/page-2/
>>
>> Do you know how much they want for each unit? I could not find the price
>> list.
>
>
> Given your reaction to the prices of the other commercial units posted a
> while back, I think you'd be better off not knowing.

Perhaps. :-)

I would still like to know out of curiosity, how much time one would have to
spend on something homebrewn to approach the cost of one of these
off-the-shelf units.

Vitaliy

2009\03\09@212518 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
At 06:15 AM 3/8/2009, Tamas Rudnai wrote:

>Yes, I agree for a production quantity it needs something better than
>slaves. Like these commercial products:
>
>www.schleuniger.us/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-68/126_read-6916/page-4/
>http://www.schleuniger.com/DesktopDefault.aspx/tabid-44/74_read-1602/page-2/

I'm using a Chinese-built wire cutter-stripper that works quite well.

There appear to be 2 similar models: B02A and B05.  Representative links:

B02+  eBay item # 250313399640
B05   eBay item # 270352733780

Several Asian sellers appear to have these at various times - the
above auctions are from the people from whom I purchased my machine.

They both cut and strip both ends of wires - fully programmable.

I have the B05 machine - cost me a little less than $2500 Can with
shipping and 3 sets of spare blades.  However, the blades are REALLY
heavy duty and I expect them to last a very long time.

My machine is rated to cut and strip #10 AWG through #28 AWG without
having to change blades.  I recently cut and stripped several hundred
pieces of #28 AWG stranded wire with fairly thin insulation (Mil type
"B" wire) - pretty much perfect (much to my surprise).  But we mostly
use it for larger wire: #14 through #24 wire.  I'd guess that its cut
and stripped anywhere between 10K to 30K pieces of wire in the 6
months that we've had it.

The current price on the B02+ machine is US $995 - I think that its
good for #14 through #28.  I think the major differences between the
two machines (besides larger steppers) is that both top and bottom
rollers on each side of the cutting head are driven on the larger
machine that I have.  I believe that only one drive roller is driven
on each side of the cutting head on the smaller machine.

I'm pretty sure that I could have built something similar, given
enough time.  Something I seem to have less and less these days.

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid   <dwaynerspamspam_OUTplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2009\03\09@214357 by solarwind

picon face
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 8:24 PM, Dwayne Reid <@spam@dwaynerKILLspamspamplanet.eon.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Holy snap! That machine looks like it can eat you! I'm talking about a
small portable machine, about the size of a small laptop computer.

2009\03\09@221322 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Mar 9, 2009, at 6:43 PM, solarwind wrote:

> That machine looks like it can eat you! I'm talking about a
> small portable machine, about the size of a small laptop computer.

The attraction of a homebuilt machine is the thought that you can make  
it be MUCH slower, which should ease the design in many ways.  If you  
want lots of wires, you just leave it running for a long time...

BillW

2009\03\11@154255 by Peter

picon face
Vitaliy <spam <at> maksimov.org> writes:
> Perhaps.
>
> I would still like to know out of curiosity, how much time one would have to
> spend on something homebrewn to approach the cost of one of these
> off-the-shelf units.

Search ebay and surplus machinery places for 'automatic wire cutter stripper
surplus programmable'

Peter

2009\03\11@223124 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
At 07:43 PM 3/9/2009, solarwind wrote:

>On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 8:24 PM, Dwayne Reid <KILLspamdwaynerKILLspamspamplanet.eon.net> wrote:
> >
> > I'm using a Chinese-built wire cutter-stripper that works quite well.
> >
> > There appear to be 2 similar models: B02A and B05.  Representative links:
> >
> > B02+  eBay item # 250313399640
> > B05   eBay item # 270352733780
> >
> > dwayne
>
>Holy snap! That machine looks like it can eat you! I'm talking about a
>small portable machine, about the size of a small laptop computer.


This unit *IS* small compared to some of the other units I've
seen.  It's a bench-top unit somewhat larger than a
toaster-oven.  But: its HEAVY - about 55 pounds.

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid   <RemoveMEdwaynerTakeThisOuTspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

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