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'[EE] Cute little 4-digit display...'
2005\12\07@000923 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
4 digit 7-segment LCD display with built in I2C controller,
in a footprint less than 0.5 inch on a side.

http://store.hexsys.biz/cubecart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=11

$12, though.  I wonder how much they'd run in "volume"...

BillW

2005\12\07@014540 by Jinx

face picon face
> store.hexsys.biz/cubecart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=11
>
> $12, though.  I wonder how much they'd run in "volume"...

It is cute

>From the pdf it looks to be made by

http://www.pacificdisplay.com/products.htm

Might have trouble getting a price as they're already supplying it
as a custom part

2005\12\07@092325 by Philip Pemberton

face picon face
In message <spam_OUT97e2d12b8fe6e63d106d3b51a9b1248eTakeThisOuTspammac.com>>          William "Chops" Westfield <.....westfwKILLspamspam@spam@mac.com> wrote:

> http://store.hexsys.biz/cubecart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=11

Now that's nice.. But what I really want is the same sort of thing with eight
digits.. I have yet to find a commercially-available 8-digit LCD that's less
than half an inch tall. Well, aside from calculator LCDs, but they're a pain
in the neck to reverse engineer :-/

Later.
--
Phil.                              | Acorn RiscPC600 SA220 64MB+6GB 100baseT
philpemspamKILLspamphilpem.me.uk              | Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxe R2 512MB+100GB
http://www.philpem.me.uk/          | Panasonic CF-25 Mk.2 Toughbook
... 2400 Baud makes you want to get out and push!!

2005\12\07@095320 by Jake Brownson

picon face
If you get one running want to post a couple pics of it in action? I'm
curious to see what it looks like when it's all fired up.

~Jake B

2005\12\07@102346 by Joe McCauley

picon face
Speaking of calculator displays, does anyone know of a source for the
flexible contact strips wsed between board & glass? Preferably European, but
beggars can't be choosers. I really don't want to go breaking calculators to
get them.

Thanks

Joe

> {Original Message removed}

2005\12\07@110127 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Speaking of calculator displays, does anyone know of a source
>for the flexible contact strips wsed between board & glass?

Known as "elastomeric connector"

>Preferably European, but beggars can't be choosers. I really
>don't want to go breaking calculators to get them.

Hmm, I thought this might tell you
http://www.densitron.com/editor/pdfs/front_panel_apps.pdf but it looks like
it doesn't give suppliers, but does give info on push button construction
with flexible front panels ;))

But this one looks more helpful
http://www.eecoswitch.co.uk/connectors.html

Maybe this one http://www.twp-europe.co.uk/pages/conn.html

Didn't find anything on RS or Farnell.

2005\12\07@110212 by Mark Scoville

flavicon
face
> -----Original Message-----
> From: .....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam.....mit.edu [EraseMEpiclist-bouncesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu]On Behalf
> Of Joe McCauley
>
> Speaking of calculator displays, does anyone know of a source for the
> flexible contact strips wsed between board & glass? Preferably
> European, but

I think you are looking for "Elastomeric Connectors" - google and see if you
get anywhere...

http://www.zaxisconnector.com is the first one that pops up for me :)  but they are
in the USA.

-- Mark



2005\12\07@111718 by Mchipguru

picon face
look for zebra strips
Larry
>
> From: "Joe McCauley" <joe.mccauleyspamspam_OUTtcd.ie>
> Date: 2005/12/07 Wed AM 10:23:45 EST
> To: "'Microcontroller discussion list - Public.'" <@spam@piclistKILLspamspammit.edu>
> Subject: RE: [EE] Cute little 4-digit display...
>
> Speaking of calculator displays, does anyone know of a source for the
> flexible contact strips wsed between board & glass? Preferably European, but
> beggars can't be choosers. I really don't want to go breaking calculators to
> get them.
>
> Thanks
>
> Joe
>
> > {Original Message removed}

2005\12\07@113046 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On Dec 7, 2005, at 6:53 AM, Jake Brownson wrote:

> If you get one running want to post a couple pics of it in action?

There's a photo on the same web site:

http://store.hexsys.biz/cubecart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=2

I think the price is a bit above my 'impulse purchase' level...

BillW

2005\12\07@135103 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
>> http://store.hexsys.biz/cubecart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=11
>
> Now that's nice.. But what I really want is the same sort of thing with
> eight
> digits.. I have yet to find a commercially-available 8-digit LCD that's
> less
> than half an inch tall. Well, aside from calculator LCDs, but they're a
> pain
> in the neck to reverse engineer :-/
>
> Later.
> --
> Phil.                              | Acorn RiscPC600 SA220 64MB+6GB
> 100baseT


Well, if you need enough of them get Pacific to make them for you.

I wonder how expensive it would be?

Assumptions:

Use same chip, digit size and construction technique as the 4-digit guy.
Add decimal points (with eight digits you're more likely to need them)

The only issue I see with keeping it under 1/2" tall is that it might be
difficult to route all the traces between the chip and the segments.

On second thought, that shouldn't be difficult at all. View the following in
a fixed pitched font:

.AAA.
A   A
A   A
A   A
.AAA.
B   B
B   B
B   B
.BBB..B


444...
1   3 .
1   3 .
1   3 .
.222. .
1 . 3 .
1 . 3 .
1 . 3 .
222  4

The upper digit represents the two backplanes A and B. The '.' characters
show how the backplane segments are connected.

The lower digit represents the four segments used to display one digit.
Again, the '.' characters show how the segments are connected on the other
piece of glass.

Using similar technology and the same I2C chip, it should be possible to go
to 16 digits with four backplanes.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems



2005\12\07@140525 by rosoftwarecontrol

flavicon
face
16*2 lcd module now is 1- 5 $/pcs. why bother even look
at this 12$ thing?

the company still making such product, is out of the date.







{Original Message removed}

2005\12\07@142346 by David Van Horn

picon face
> 16*2 lcd module now is 1- 5 $/pcs. why bother even look
> at this 12$ thing?
>
> the company still making such product, is out of the date.

For the applications on their web site, size and weight are critical.
So, the large heavy LCD module, at any price, is not "better" than the
small lightweight one, for these applications.



2005\12\07@193947 by Philip Pemberton

face picon face
In message <008101c5fb61$633da130$a402a8c0@personalrvuq8e>
         "microsoftwarecontrol" <KILLspammicrosoftwarecontrolKILLspamspamyahoo.ca> wrote:

> 16*2 lcd module now is 1- 5 $/pcs. why bother even look
> at this 12$ thing?
>
> the company still making such product, is out of the date.

Two words: Power consumption. HD44780s (and clones) are notoriously
inefficient. That and 16x2 LCMs are *huge*.

I suspect the 4-digit displays could be made run off a small Lithium cell.
Again, shame they cost about $12 each.. I've got some projects that got
shelved because I couldn't find a small, low-power 8-digit numeric display :(

Later.
--
Phil.                              | Acorn RiscPC600 SA220 64MB+6GB 100baseT
RemoveMEphilpemTakeThisOuTspamphilpem.me.uk              | Athlon64 3200+ A8VDeluxe R2 512MB+100GB
http://www.philpem.me.uk/          | Panasonic CF-25 Mk.2 Toughbook
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -- Robert A. Heinlein

2005\12\07@211245 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Dec 7, 2005, at 11:06 AM, microsoftwarecontrol wrote:

> 16*2 lcd module now is 1- 5 $/pcs. why bother even look
> at this 12$ thing?

Because of the "little" part.  It's REAL hard to beat an industry
standard surplus LCD display on functionality or cost effectiveness,
but sometimes I want a display that fits in a 2cm tube...

The i2c interface is nice too...

BillW

2005\12\07@222613 by rosoftwarecontrol

flavicon
face
size and weight is one point. But,
only 4 digits? it is not suitable for
pic type device at all. pic has much
more information than one line of
number, be needed to display.
No display, no function, am I right?

Also, now a day hd447800 lcd module
can be very thin (even with EL backlight)
and very small. For the sake of size and weight,
to pay $12 and lost capability of neccessary
information display? it is absolutely wrong doing.

Before I met the point to choose one line 7-seg
number or 2*16 lcd module? After some
comparing I reached conclusion: all of my
future pic project will be using at least 2*16.
By the way, firmware for 2*16 is even smaller.



{Original Message removed}

2005\12\08@001606 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On Dec 7, 2005, at 7:19 PM, microsoftwarecontrol wrote:

> But, only 4 digits? it is not suitable for pic type device at all.
> pic has much more information than one line of number, be needed
> to display.  No display, no function, am I right?

Well, it seems just about right for the application on the web
page; altimeter for model planes and rockets.  0 to 9999 feet is
plenty for anything that needs to be that small.  You have to
realize the extremes that other vendors have gone to to keep their
equivalent products similarly tiny.  One used a .5 inch beeper and
would beep out the altitude:  "long_pause beep beep beep short_pause
beep beep beep beep short_pause beep beep" = 342 feet :-)  (Really!)

At work we seem to use a lot of HCMS2904-style displays (4 digit
dot matrix LEDs; about 18x10mm; usually one or two per "big" board
in a chassis.  They're power hungry beasts and complex to interface
to, and more than $12 !


> Also, now a day hd447800 lcd module can be very thin
> (even with EL backlight) and very small.

Please tell me where I can get some!  Something 15mm by 30mm with 8 to
16 characters would be great.  And under $12 in ones...

Sure, a 4 digit display doesn't suit every application; but this
particular display fill a niche that is often neglected.

BillW

2005\12\08@004917 by Jinx

face picon face
> > But, only 4 digits? it is not suitable for pic type device at all.
> > pic has much more information than one line of number, be
> > needed to display.  No display, no function, am I right?

There's no rule about how much or how little information you
have to display. You're saying as the PIC gets bigger so should
the LCD ?

> Well, it seems just about right for the application on the web
> page; altimeter for model planes and rockets

I have a probe thermometer that uses a similar display. Imagine
making something similar with a 10F and an iButton, or any type
of sensor (strain gauge ? lux ? revs ?). You could even record
maxima-minima in dynamic environments (eg the altimeter - record
g and height)

2005\12\08@061101 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


>-----Original Message-----
>From: spamBeGonepiclist-bouncesspamBeGonespammit.edu [TakeThisOuTpiclist-bouncesEraseMEspamspam_OUTmit.edu]
>Sent: 08 December 2005 03:20
>To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
>Subject: Re: [EE] Cute little 4-digit display...
>
>
>size and weight is one point. But,
>only 4 digits? it is not suitable for
>pic type device at all. pic has much
>more information than one line of
>number, be needed to display.
>No display, no function, am I right?
>

The amount of information you need to display is hardly related to the power of the microprocessor.  Most of my projects use the largest available 18F parts, and have no display at all...

>Also, now a day hd447800 lcd module
>can be very thin (even with EL backlight)
>and very small. For the sake of size and weight,
>to pay $12 and lost capability of neccessary
>information display? it is absolutely wrong doing.
>

But having more than 4 digits may not be neccesary!  Why use a huge 2*16 display if you only need to display the numbers 0-9999?  A 2x16 display won't even fit into many/most "hand held" instrument style project boxes.

>Before I met the point to choose one line 7-seg
>number or 2*16 lcd module? After some
>comparing I reached conclusion: all of my
>future pic project will be using at least 2*16.
>By the way, firmware for 2*16 is even smaller.
>

Why have you decided that all of your projects will have some kind of user interface?  Embedded controllers with no user interface whatsoever are very, very common.

If you can use an MSSP module to provide the I2C, I suspect the firmware might actually be smaller.  And of course, if you already have I2C devices such as EEPROM etc. then the code will be much, much smaller.

Regards

Mike

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2005\12\08@083815 by Joe McCauley

picon face
Thanks guys,

That's the name. It totally escaped me. I wanted to try them as contacts to
a sample in scientific experiments. Small quntities only, but I wanted
consistancy in the connectors I used otherwise I just would have ripped out
the guts of a cheap calculator.

Thanks,

Joe

>
> I think you are looking for "Elastomeric Connectors" - google

2005\12\08@085553 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Thanks guys,
>
>That's the name. It totally escaped me. I wanted
>to try them as contacts to a sample in scientific
>experiments. Small quntities only, but I wanted
>consistancy in the connectors I used otherwise I
>just would have ripped out the guts of a cheap calculator.

I have had mixed results using these. I used to service a mini computer
system that had these to connect daughter PCBs in a communications
controller, and they were forever giving us problems. Some would be alright,
and others would fail on a regular basis. I would go in and change the zebra
strips on the faulty ones, do them up to the required torque, and they would
still fail after a while. Eventually the manufacturer changed the style of
zebra strip to one that had a gold plated foil around the outside instead of
the conductive black stuff through the middle, and all the problems went
away.

2005\12\08@101840 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Phil,

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 00:39:52 GMT, Philip Pemberton wrote:

> shame they cost about $12 each.. I've got some projects that got
> shelved because I couldn't find a small, low-power 8-digit numeric display :(

I suppose using two of the 4-digit ones side-by-side is a non-starter?  :-)

They seem to be generous on the exchange rate - changing to GBP pricing it shows £6.33, an exchange rate of about $1.89:£1, which hasn't been the case for several months.

I'm on the point of impulse-buying one, but adding shipping brings it to nearly £9, and that is too expensive just for the fun of it.

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England

2005\12\08@115518 by Joe McCauley

picon face
Mine only has to work once, but there are some extreme conditions involved.
Sitting in a bath of liquid Nitrogen & subjected to a pulsed magnetic field
of 25 tesla. I'm not convinced they will work for me, but thought I'd cool
one down & see how it behaved.

No point in trying this if I can't get a reliable supply though. That said,
I'll be working with this stuff next week so if I can find a sacrificial
calculator.....

Joe

{Quote hidden}

> --

2005\12\08@121003 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Mine only has to work once, but there are some extreme
>conditions involved. Sitting in a bath of liquid Nitrogen
>& subjected to a pulsed magnetic field of 25 tesla. I'm
>not convinced they will work for me, but thought I'd cool
>one down & see how it behaved.

So do tell - how ARE you going to read a display immersed in liquid nitrogen
...

2005\12\08@121830 by David Van Horn

picon face
> Mine only has to work once, but there are some extreme conditions
> involved.
> Sitting in a bath of liquid Nitrogen & subjected to a pulsed magnetic
> field
> of 25 tesla. I'm not convinced they will work for me, but thought I'd
cool
> one down & see how it behaved.

Yikes.. Zebra strips work by being flexible, and I kind of doubt that at
those temperatures, they will be more flexible than say, glass..?


2005\12\09@042114 by Joe McCauley

picon face
That's my view too, I'm making contacts onto a thin film sample (not a
display Alan :) Are there any displays which will work at those extremes of
temp anyhow?). If I can get a good contact on 'dry land' then maybe it will
be OK when immersed.

I think it is unlikly to work, so testing it is a low priority at the
moment. If I do get around to doing it, I'll pass along my findings.....

Joe

>
> Yikes.. Zebra strips work by being flexible, and I kind of
> doubt that at those temperatures, they will be more flexible
> than say, glass..?
>
>
> --

2005\12\09@045057 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I'm making contacts onto a thin film sample
>(not a display Alan :)

Ahh, now you see why the subject line should be changed when you wander off
subject :0)

2005\12\09@094335 by David Van Horn

picon face


> -----Original Message-----
> From: RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu [piclist-bouncesEraseMEspam.....mit.edu] On
Behalf
> Of Joe McCauley
> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 4:46 AM
> To: 'Microcontroller discussion list - Public.'
> Subject: RE: [EE] Cute little 4-digit display...
>
> That's my view too, I'm making contacts onto a thin film sample (not a
> display Alan :) Are there any displays which will work at those
extremes
> of
> temp anyhow

The other side of this is that the LCD material will also not work at
those temperatures.

What about taking your data out by pulsed IR, and reading it on
something at a more normal temperature?  




2005\12\09@103925 by Joe McCauley

picon face
Well as Alan pointed out earlier, we are starting to stray a bit from EE.
I'm of the view that we're only marginally doing so, so I'm not changing the
tag just yet.

I'm doing a 4 point resistance measurement on a thin film sample subjected
to a large pulsed magnetic field (25T). Imagine 4 contacts in a row on a
strip of metal. I have to pass a current through the sample via the outer 2
contacts and measure the voltage developed across the middle 2 contacts
during the field pulse. At normal room temp the elastomer connector would be
ideal for making contacts, just sandwich a piece between 4 contacts on a PCB
and the sample & off you go. At 77 degrees Kelvin it might all go to H***.

If anyone has any other ideas on how to do this that does not involve silver
paint daubed on the sample I'm all ears :)

If anyone really feels that this should be OT please feel free to point that
out or indeed to change the tag if replying.

Joe


> The other side of this is that the LCD material will also not
> work at those temperatures.
>
> What about taking your data out by pulsed IR, and reading it
> on something at a more normal temperature?  
>  
>
>
>
> --

2005\12\09@121634 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Well as Alan pointed out earlier, we are
>starting to stray a bit from EE.

Well, not from EE, but we have strayed a rather long way from "cute little 4
digit display" - which is what I meant in my earlier email.

2005\12\09@122301 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I'm doing a 4 point resistance measurement on a thin film
>sample subjected to a large pulsed magnetic field (25T).

Hmm, I'm wondering if you will see some Hall Effect type things happen at
that field strength.

>Imagine 4 contacts in a row on a strip of metal.
...

What thickness is the base? What is the element of the metallisation?

> At normal room temp the elastomer connector would be
>ideal for making contacts, just sandwich a piece
>between 4 contacts on a PCB and the sample & off you
>go. At 77 degrees Kelvin it might all go to H***.
>
>If anyone has any other ideas on how to do this that
>does not involve silver paint daubed on the sample
>I'm all ears :)

I would suggest using the edge mount pins used on ceramic hybrid circuit
bases, to make them into DIP type assemblies. I know people on this list
have pointed at suppliers of these in the past, so if noone answers about
them you may need to dig in the archives.

>If anyone really feels that this should be OT please feel
>free to point that out or indeed to change the tag if replying.

I am happy with EE. I cannot see anything in the content that I would regard
as not being of engineering interest.

2005\12\09@123847 by James Newton, Host

face picon face

> Subject: RE: [EE] Cute little 4-digit display...
>
> Well as Alan pointed out earlier, we are starting to stray a
> bit from EE.
> I'm of the view that we're only marginally doing so, so I'm
> not changing the tag just yet.

No problem with not changing the tag... This IS however a hijacked thread
which is no longer about a "Cute little 4-digit display"

I'm not going to enforce it, but I think lots of people would appreciate it
if, in general, people who change the subject of a thread in terms of what
they are posting, would also change the subject line to reflect that.

In this case, Alan's point was that anyone reading the subject line starts
to think about LCD displays, and then reads your post from that point of
view. It makes it difficult to understand what you are saying because it is
out of context with the subject line.

I'm a little amazed that this is not obvious to people, but I don't mean
that to sound as if I feel you (or anyone else) is stupid or rude. I guess I
have just thought about it a lot and need to recognize that others may not
have thought about it at all.

Please think about it.

>
> If anyone really feels that this should be OT please feel
> free to point that out or indeed to change the tag if replying.

It doesn't need to be OT. It would be nice if the subject line matched the
content of the post.

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
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2005\12\09@130421 by Peter

picon face


On Fri, 9 Dec 2005, Joe McCauley wrote:

> That's my view too, I'm making contacts onto a thin film sample (not a
> display Alan :) Are there any displays which will work at those extremes of
> temp anyhow?). If I can get a good contact on 'dry land' then maybe it will
> be OK when immersed.
>
> I think it is unlikly to work, so testing it is a low priority at the
> moment. If I do get around to doing it, I'll pass along my findings.....

Imho the chances that the liquid crystal substance will be still
'liquid' at LN2 temperature are about frozen ... But a mechanical
display designed not to bind when cooled down should work fine. F.ex.
those magnet flipper displays used on public transport should work. Also
LEDs should work (with very high efficiency) unless the die cracks off
the substrate due to mechanical stress when cooling it down.

Peter

2005\12\10@234935 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe McCauley" <RemoveMEjoe.mccauleyEraseMEspamEraseMEtcd.ie>
To: "'Microcontroller discussion list - Public.'" <RemoveMEpiclistspam_OUTspamKILLspammit.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 11:55 AM
Subject: RE: [EE] Cute little 4-digit display...


> Mine only has to work once, but there are some extreme conditions
> involved.
> Sitting in a bath of liquid Nitrogen & subjected to a pulsed magnetic
> field
> of 25 tesla. I'm not convinced they will work for me, but thought I'd cool
> one down & see how it behaved.
>

I got a funny feeling that a rubber strip isn't going to do to well in an
LN2 bath. Can anybody say solid rocket booster o-ring?

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

2005\12\10@234942 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
> >I'm doing a 4 point resistance measurement on a thin film
>>sample subjected to a large pulsed magnetic field (25T).

How about four small pressure (ie spring loaded) contacts.  Say little bits
of phosper bronze with a "dimple" on one end to contact the sample and the
other end soldered to a little circuit board, or even directly to some kind
of connector.

In fact, now that I am thinking of it, how about using an IC socket
(non-machined pin style) or loose pin .1x.1 connector to both provide the
contacts and a frame to hold them at a known spacing.


Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

2005\12\12@040819 by Joe McCauley

picon face
James,

Point taken. Sorry about that. From some of the replies coming back I can
see that you are of course correct. Future mails on this thread would be
better labeled as 'Connections at 77K' as Bill has already done.


Joe

{Quote hidden}

2005\12\12@041318 by Joe McCauley

picon face
Alan,

Comments below.

{Quote hidden}

The base thickness is not too important. The metal to be measured could be
anything, but is 100-200 nm thick so is very delicate.

>
> I would suggest using the edge mount pins used on ceramic
> hybrid circuit bases, to make them into DIP type assemblies.

This is an idea I should have thought of myself. (Doh) If these were cheap
enough, it might be possible to evaporate gold contacts directly onto the
ceramic & then evaporate the sample over that. I'll have to check it out.

Thanks,

Joe

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