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'[EE] Car alarm design'
2003\12\29@221146 by Edward Cooper

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Hi

My car got broken into yet again, so I'm thinking about designing a
fairly basic car alarm, PIC based which would detect a break in.
Ideally it would be armed/disarmed by remote, with perhaps a override
facility (something as basic as a hidden k/switch).  I'd also really
like it to transmit the fact that its being broken into over a fair
range so it can set off an alarm inside, so I can go and stop those
kids from pinching my car stereo.

Any ideas?  Not really sure how to do the transmitting/receiving stuff,
not to worried about breaking any regulations slightly, can anyone
recommend somewhere for parts, UK?

I don't need it do do anything fancy like immobilize or track or stuff
like that, my 1990 VW Polo ain't worth pinching.

Thanks guys

Ed

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2003\12\30@014129 by Picdude

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Ask yourself what you'll really do if it goes off ... will you really go stop the thief (or thieves)?  I've had 3 vehicles stolen in the past 10 years, and have looked into every type of alarm (including paging alarms, which can be bought off the shelf fairly easily), but none will solve the problem.  I did find the answer though in another type of device .... a brake lock with a key.  Feel like re-plumbing a couple brake lines?

Cheers,
-Neil.



On Monday 29 December 2003 09:10 pm, Edward Cooper scribbled:
{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\30@020859 by Anand Dhuru

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This seems to do pretty much what you want;
http://www.electronic-circuits-diagrams.com/alarmsimages/alarmsckt12.shtml

{Original Message removed}

2003\12\30@020859 by Robert Rolf

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What about starter disable? Simple. Easy to implement. Hard to
bypass without practice. Just takes a 'normal looking' relay under
the hood to block the starter engage line and a hidden
(or non-obvious switch like 'rear wiper') to operate.
How many thieves are going to crawl under the vehicle to jumper
the starter solenoid?

Robert

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2003\12\30@060511 by Tim ODriscoll
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On Tue, 30 Dec 2003, Edward Cooper wrote:
> Any ideas?  Not really sure how to do the transmitting/receiving stuff,
> not to worried about breaking any regulations slightly, can anyone
> recommend somewhere for parts, UK?

I've done similar with parts from http://www.rfsolutions.co.uk .... They sell an
ultrasonic module which provides a logic-level output when movement is
detected between two ultrasonic sensors, and they also sell 433Mhz AM
transmitters and receivers which also interface directly to PICs.

It may be easier to just wire an opto-isolator up to the courtesy light
and another one to the ignition barrels' position 1, then hook those up to
a PIC with a radio tx module.

I've had some difficulty in getting good AM reception ranges to/from my
car though, but if other car alarms can do it, I can too :)

Good luck with it,

Tim

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2003\12\30@064114 by Brian Clewer

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Edward wrote:

> My car got broken into yet again, so I'm thinking about designing a
> fairly basic car alarm, PIC based which would detect a break in.
> Ideally it would be armed/disarmed by remote, with perhaps a override
> facility (something as basic as a hidden k/switch).  I'd also really
> like it to transmit the fact that its being broken into over a fair
> range so it can set off an alarm inside, so I can go and stop those
> kids from pinching my car stereo.

I think the issue here is that they don't steal the car - it's what is
inside.  I would imagine it takes a short amount of time to steal a stereo -
30Sec ?  Most alarm horns are outside, but if you put one inside it would
make it unbearable for the thief to steal.  On the other hand - if it
accidentally went off while you were driving I guess this would be a bad
idea (disclaimer disclaimer ;))

Lastly, if you are able to park the car in a well lit busy area, so much the
better.

Brian.

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2003\12\30@074555 by Jonathan Johnson

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Have you looked at infrasound? <evil grin>
just so long as you dont mind cleaning up the interior afterwards......
about 13.5 hertz was the one I think, well somewhere between 12 and 13.8
anyway.
warning have your wet vac handy!
you should only need to have it go off once or twice, then word will get
around.

Cheers,

JJ

P.S Have you thought about putting a small covert wireless camera inside the
vehicle? I'd imagine there would be no deterrent like "being passed around
the cell block like a peace pipe" (quote from anger management- Jack
Nicholson) when you hand the local cops the images.



{Original Message removed}

2003\12\30@104938 by Edward Cooper

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Cheers for the link, I reckon that the fm transmitter and receiver
combination

at here
http://www.rfsolutions.co.uk/special_offers/
special_offers.htm#RXTX_Modules

should work nice, cheap too.

Ed

On 30 Dec 2003, at 11:04, Tim ODriscoll wrote:

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2003\12\30@111510 by Tim ODriscoll

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On Tue, 30 Dec 2003, Edward Cooper wrote:
> Cheers for the link, I reckon that the fm transmitter and receiver
> combination
>
> at here
> http://www.rfsolutions.co.uk/special_offers/
> special_offers.htm#RXTX_Modules
>
> should work nice, cheap too.

I think rfsolutions have a £50 minimum order unfortunately... But I've bought the AM433 tx and rx modules from Maplin for £10 before. Great if you've got a local Maplin store :)

Checkout some of the other rfsolutions stuff though.. I've recently bought some KeyLoq keyfobs and a receiver module from them. Once you've got a couple of nice antenna's the price soon gets up to the £50 mark.

Cheers,

Tim

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2003\12\30@115537 by Tim Hart

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Or modify a flash unit to give a few more joules...:)

Any ideas on how to play with this Infrasound?  The generator for that famous concert was a pipe 7 meters long!  Not easy to build in my electronics room :)

Tim

>>> spam_OUTouteredgeTakeThisOuTspamSMARTCHAT.NET.AU 12/30/03 06:53AM >>>
Have you looked at infrasound? <evil grin>
just so long as you dont mind cleaning up the interior afterwards......
about 13.5 hertz was the one I think, well somewhere between 12 and 13.8
anyway.
warning have your wet vac handy!
you should only need to have it go off once or twice, then word will get
around.

Cheers,

JJ

P.S Have you thought about putting a small covert wireless camera inside the
vehicle? I'd imagine there would be no deterrent like "being passed around
the cell block like a peace pipe" (quote from anger management- Jack
Nicholson) when you hand the local cops the images.



{Original Message removed}

2003\12\30@150809 by Denny Esterline

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>Or modify a flash unit to give a few more joules...:)
>
>Any ideas on how to play with this Infrasound?  The generator for that
famous >concert was a pipe 7 meters long!  Not easy to build in my
electronics room :)
>
>Tim

Not to mention, put in the car.

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2003\12\30@185056 by Howard McGinnis

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My two cents worth.....

In the time you take to respond to the alarm, they're in and out, so is an
alarm really going to prevent anything? Maybe kids would be deterred, but
someone who want's your stuff bad enough, no alarm is going to stop them.

Here in Honolulu, alarms go off all the time. Garbage trucks set them off,
cars that go boom set them off, imports with the loud unmufflers set them
off. It happens soooo often, no one here seems to care. Actually, they seem
to be pissed that the alarms are always going off.

I liked someone's idea of the flamethrower anti-theft device. Perhaps
propelling a 16F84 at the intruder at a high speed, pin end first might
make an impact.....

Howard

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2003\12\30@190338 by David VanHorn

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>
>Here in Honolulu, alarms go off all the time. Garbage trucks set them off,
>cars that go boom set them off, imports with the loud unmufflers set them
>off. It happens soooo often, no one here seems to care. Actually, they seem
>to be pissed that the alarms are always going off.

Nothing's changed then..
I used to do car alarms there, back in the early 80's.
I didn't have those problems, but I did see a lot of bad stuff, when I was called in for an upgrade.

I did a lot of silent car alarms as well. Pager only.
For the "forget the dog, beware of the owner" group.

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2003\12\30@192836 by Robert Rolf

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Smoke Cloak (tm).

Kinda hard to drive when the interior is filled with white smoke.
Also attracts attention.."CAR ON FIRE!!!!".

About $200 for the guts, but you need a BEEFY battery to support it.
(Glycol and heater and pump).

R

Howard McGinnis wrote:
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2003\12\30@214145 by Jinx

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> Smoke Cloak (tm).
>
> Kinda hard to drive when the interior is filled with white smoke.
> Also attracts attention.."CAR ON FIRE!!!!".
>
> About $200 for the guts, but you need a BEEFY battery to support
>  it. (Glycol and heater and pump).

I asked the list about this last year. End result was a smoke
generator + horn to attract attention if the car's driven and an
indelible ink sprayer + piezo bomb in the dashboard. Green
people with ringing ears are so noticeable

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2003\12\30@220721 by Jonathan Johnson

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what type of piezo bomb? what kind of sound level is it? and where do ya get
them? :-)
and how did you go getting the system up n running?
I'm sure everyone else on list would sooooo love the pics of your first
victim as much as I would.

JJ

{Original Message removed}

2003\12\30@223907 by Jinx

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> what type of piezo bomb? what kind of sound level is it? and where
> do ya get them? :-)

4 individual Radiospares units (at the time it was cheaper than a 100dB
bomb), each rated at 95dB output. Most annoying sound is a warble,
much more so than a continuous tone. These piezos have a modulation
input, but what I did, because they are very close in frequency anyway,
was to slightly distort the casing (and therefore frequency) with a small
screw. This makes a very good "pea-whistle" sound (one of which I'd
made several years ago) and you have to be exceptionally brave to be
anywhere near it. As it's 4 individual piezos, they can be separated if
necessary to spread the sound, as they are fairly directional. RS do have
quite a selection of industrial warning devices. If it weren't for the size
a 12V dome bell or klaxon would be very nastily effective too. The problem
is that people are to some extent immune to car alarms nowadays and
you need something different to stand out from the crowd

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'[EE] Car alarm design'
2004\01\03@031506 by Mike Hord
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I'd say your best possible security system would be a stock AC/Delco
radio salvaged from a junkyard.

Nobody, I mean nobody, breaks into a car to steal a 15 year old stock
radio.

Mike H.

{Quote hidden}

_________________________________________________________________
Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work    and
yourself.   http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx

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2004\01\05@144725 by Tim Hart

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I heard a comedian once say....

"Cars saved by Car Alarms......ZERO!"

So now when my wife and I hear one we always say..."ZERO!"

I like the idea of the car disabling later when the car is actually moving.  Maybe the car needs to shock them after they get moving?  Set off the airbag?  That will get your attention!  
My current method is to have a car nobody really cares about....I drive a Subaru station wagon!  Not to many people around here even know what a Subaru is!!  Some guys at an auto parts store actually laughed at me when I asked them for a part!!!  Said they didn't do "foreign cars"....the parking lot had 5 cars....3 of them where foreign!!

Tim

>>> .....mcginnisKILLspamspam@spam@E-VISIONS.COM 12/30/03 05:49PM >>>
My two cents worth.....

In the time you take to respond to the alarm, they're in and out, so is an
alarm really going to prevent anything? Maybe kids would be deterred, but
someone who want's your stuff bad enough, no alarm is going to stop them.

Here in Honolulu, alarms go off all the time. Garbage trucks set them off,
cars that go boom set them off, imports with the loud unmufflers set them
off. It happens soooo often, no one here seems to care. Actually, they seem
to be pissed that the alarms are always going off.

I liked someone's idea of the flamethrower anti-theft device. Perhaps
propelling a 16F84 at the intruder at a high speed, pin end first might
make an impact.....

Howard

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2004\01\05@145550 by Tim Hart

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You can make smoke cheaply....you carefully (not to hot) cook some sugar and add some potassium nitrate (Meat tenderizer around 3 bucks).  It makes this nice brown liquid that you pour into an empty can..  To light it you can use resistance wire and a match....that would smoke em out :)

I saw an alarm that went all out....it killed all of the fuel injectors one by one....then the fuel pump.  It was harsh...

Does that OnStar really work...I'd think they would just yank that transmitter right out ASAP!

Tim

>>> .....Robert.RolfKILLspamspam.....UALBERTA.CA 12/30/03 06:20PM >>>
Smoke Cloak (tm).

Kinda hard to drive when the interior is filled with white smoke.
Also attracts attention.."CAR ON FIRE!!!!".

About $200 for the guts, but you need a BEEFY battery to support it.
(Glycol and heater and pump).

R

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2004\01\05@150102 by Tim Hart

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I had an annoying neighbor in College and I used a tweeter and 14,100 Hz....man that will give you a headache!!!  Maybe not great for a car alarm because it took awhile to figure out it was caused by sound and not your own ears ringing.  I left when I turned it on...:)

>>> outeredgespamspam_OUTSMARTCHAT.NET.AU 12/30/03 09:14PM >>>
what type of piezo bomb? what kind of sound level is it? and where do ya get
them? :-)
and how did you go getting the system up n running?
I'm sure everyone else on list would sooooo love the pics of your first
victim as much as I would.

JJ

{Original Message removed}

2004\01\05@150620 by Bob Blick

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Tim Hart said:
> I had an annoying neighbor in College and I used a tweeter and 14,100
> Hz....man that will give you a headache!!!  Maybe not great for a car
> alarm because it took awhile to figure out it was caused by sound and
> not your own ears ringing.  I left when I turned it on...:)

It would only work best against young people :-)

-Bob

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