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'[EE] Brake fluid pressure transducer'
2010\07\01@200514 by Bob Blick

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I'm looking for a brake fluid pressure transducer to put in my car for
data logging.

The ones made for that purpose seem to be in the $150 range.

Pressure transducers are not something I am looking at on a daily basis
so I don't know what the going rate for off-the-shelf industrial models
are, or where to buy them in single quantities.

Basically brake fluid is fairly benign and the pressure is 0 to 1500 PSI
and accuracy is not that important. And I don't care what the
input/output is, raw bridge, ratiometric, digital, whatever.

Anyone been down this road before and can point me in the right
direction?

Thanks,

Bob

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2010\07\01@205742 by Carl Denk

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You don't say anything about pressure range, but, I would think 1000
PSI. would not be enough, probably 2000 psi. might be. The tubing needs
to be steel or stainless, and for various reasons including vibration
fatigue, copper is a no/no. Might think a bit about a foot can exert say
200 lbs. force x leverage of the brake pedal linkage (measure a couple
of cars and trucks (we are thinking hydraulic brakes and not air) x area
of the master cylinder piston. Are we thinking production with many
pieces, or one or a few pieces. Some vehicle anti lock may have pressure
transducers.

On 7/1/2010 8:05 PM, Bob Blick wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2010\07\01@221323 by Bob Blick

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On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 20:57:38 -0400, "Carl Denk" said:
> You don't say anything about pressure range,

> On 7/1/2010 8:05 PM, Bob Blick wrote:
>
> > Basically brake fluid is fairly benign and the pressure is 0 to 1500 PSI

:)

I'm actually pretty familiar with performance brake parts and safety in
race cars, so the plumbing part isn't the problem, I just need a sensor.

Sensors in ABS systems are integrated into other parts so they aren't
applicable. I am looking for a <$100 off-the-shelf industrial sensor or
one specifically for automobiles that has a datasheet.

So far the least expensive one I have seen is $105 and doesn't come with
a datasheet:

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=2907

Thanks for your input.

Cheerful regards,

Bob


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2010\07\01@225222 by PICdude

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Bob,

If MSP3252P2-ND at Digikey works for you, contact me offlist as I  
should be able to get you a better price.

BTW, I would be cautious about calling brake fluid "benign".  Drop  
some on the paint of a car you don't like, and you'll see what I mean.

Cheers,
-Neil.



Quoting Bob Blick <spam_OUTbobblickTakeThisOuTspamftml.net>:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2010\07\02@000634 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 10:13 PM 7/1/2010, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

http://www.antonsre.com.au/index_files/pdf/Datasheet_brakeprs_eng_101.pdf

This one looks pretty good:

http://sensing.honeywell.com/index.cfm?ci_id=140301&la_id=1&pr_id=122165

$88 in 10's from Mouser, 17 in stock.

>Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
.....speffKILLspamspam@spam@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com



2010\07\02@063243 by Olin Lathrop

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Carl Denk wrote:
>> Basically brake fluid is fairly benign and the pressure is 0 to 1500
>> PSI and accuracy is not that important.
>
> You don't say anything about pressure range,

You need to read Bob's post again then.

2010\07\02@125426 by Brooke Clarke

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Hi Bob:

Have you looked into whether or not that's one of the parameters covered
by OBDC?
If it is then there's already a sensor connected to the brake system.

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Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com


2010\07\02@132009 by Bob Blick

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On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 09:53:55 -0700, "Brooke Clarke" said:

> Have you looked into whether or not that's one of the parameters covered
> by OBDC?
> If it is then there's already a sensor connected to the brake system.

OBD2 doesn't have ABS as part of the standard set of data, it's
proprietary. Also I don't have ABS in the car I want to monitor.

Completing a little hobby project is always a challenge for me. Feature
creep can easily turn that simple little project into something that
never gets finished. So I am sticking to 3-axis acceleration, RPM,
throttle position, and brake pressure. Anything more is too much to
graph all together and besides, these are the important ones. I'm not a
Formula One driver, either :)

Thanks for everyone's input, I'm sure you'll be hearing more assuming I
make progress. This will be my first thing built with an Arduino besides
experimental tinkering, unless I decide I hate it and switch to a PIC.
So far I like how popular the Arduino is but other than that I don't
much care for it.

Best regards,

Bob

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2010\07\02@154436 by YES NOPE9

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{Quote hidden}

Is there a company that makes a fluid isolator/pressure multiplier ?  
Maybe something mechanical that has a 10:1 ( as an example ) surface  
ratio change so that 2000 psi on one side is 200 psi on the other ?
Gus

2010\07\02@164936 by Isaac Marino Bavaresco

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Em 2/7/2010 16:44, YES NOPE9 escreveu:
{Quote hidden}

A good machinist with a lathe and a grinder can make such device.
A plunger inside a cylinder with an internal step (the plunger stepped
also), the cross section of the bigger diameter portion with an area ten
times that of the smaller diameter portion.

High pressure applied to the smaller diameter end pushes the plunger,
the pressure at the larger diameter end is 1/10 of the pressure at the
smaller diameter end.

The tricky part is the leakage, perhaps some O-Rings near each end with
a hole through the cylinder wall, between the sections to drain any
fluid that may leak from either side.

The pressure reduction may be even higher, perhaps hundreds of times, to
suit any pressure sensor you may find.


A better option would be a device like this one but instead of using
pressure at the larger diameter end, just attach a strain-gauge and read
the pressure by means of the strain.

Isaac

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2010\07\02@222147 by PICdude

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Quoting YES NOPE9 <yesspamKILLspamnope9.com>:

> Is there a company that makes a fluid isolator/pressure multiplier ?
> Maybe something mechanical that has a 10:1 ( as an example ) surface
> ratio change so that 2000 psi on one side is 200 psi on the other ?
> Gus


Yes for the isolator, but the ones I know are about $85 (IIRC), and  
are quite innacurate.



2010\07\04@111306 by BOB

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Isaac Marino Bavaresco wrote:
{Quote hidden}

This is a good idea I have worked on a device such as this on a machine
I worked on.
The drain hole in the m middle is very important.

ALSO the seals used need special attention.  I cannot remember details
but some types of seal material will come apart when exposed to brake fluid.

OLD BOB

2010\07\04@140423 by Justin Richards

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> This is a good idea I have worked on a device such as this on a machine
> I worked on.
> The drain hole in the m middle is very important.
>
> ALSO the seals used need special attention.  I cannot remember details
> but some types of seal material will come apart when exposed to brake
> fluid.
>
> Another slave cylinder  (I think some folks call them wheel cylinder and
from the wreckers or even new as they are cheap approx $20 last time I
purchased one)  in a sturdy cage with strain gauge.

Using a real slave cylinder (or master cylinder) you can be confident that
the correct materials are used.

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