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PICList Thread
'[EE] 8051'
2004\10\14@115214 by Sebastian Garcia

picon face
Hi Dennis,

Espero que tus cosas marchen bien.


Dennis Crawley <spam_OUTproyectosenpicTakeThisOuTspamyahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>
> I want to practice 8051 programming. I have a lots of boards with this micro
> and it seems it could use an external program memory pulling up or down some
> pin. (Manual says). The micros I have seems OTP, I must go to external.


Which chip number/manufacturer is in your boards? There are many MCS-51
"grandsons" out there, from many companies.


> Well I want to hear your suggestions, in how to make a simple "external"
> programmer. My first thought is to make a board with a pic :) an a flash
> memory. The pic receives, via RS232, the .hex and load the program to the
> flash. Then reset the 8051.


If you want do use the PC serial port, it's a good idea. However, the
LPT-based approaches are more simple.

Be aware that  "traditional" MCS-51 derivatives needs to be programmed
in parallel, through the use of its data/address buses, and they need
high voltage Vpp.
The newest, In-System Programmable clones needs a really simple hw
interface.


> My intention is to learn with a real 8051 type micro,... not virtual (I have
> at least two software simulators).
> Any clue on this I'll appreciate.
> Dennis Crawley


Well, in our country some Atmel chips are the more easily available 8051
derivatives.
I recommend you the in-system programmable ones, such as the
AT89S52 (around US$3) and the AT89S8252, with data EEPROM, SPI,
two DPTR's (around US$9). Check out the datasheets at atmel.com .
Where? Microelectronica SH and Electrocomponentes .

For these Atmel chips there are many programmers out there in the net
(e.g.: AEC-ISP), very simple (only buffers for the ISP serial programming
lines, from LPT port to the uC) just do a Google search.

Here at our School i'm a teaching assistant in the microcontroller's
introductory course, and we use mainly the Atmel chips. If you're
interested, i can share a brief document with the hw details for an ISP
programmer that works with Atmel's free programming windoze sw,
"AT89ISP".

Best regards,

S.-
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2004\10\15@094413 by Dennis Crawley

flavicon
face
Sebastian wrote:
> Hi Dennis,
> Espero que tus cosas marchen bien.

Indeed they do. I'm studying some math's, btw Newton's law solved by
dT/dt= -k(T-Tm), I have "pending" a simple experiment: a datalogger with a
precision PTC droped by an oil company because they brake the glass. Not the
bubble in which the ptc is. I have repaired it and still have a good
precision.

The experiment is about to demonstrate Newton's findings. I will use the
frizzer and a coper bar whith the ptc inside and a lm35 out side. There are
a lot of things to do, to play with the temperature
gathering steps, the initial temperature of the bar, type of ADC,
noise,...etc.

> > I want to practice 8051 programming. I have a lots of boards with this
micro
> > and it seems it could use an external program memory pulling up or down
some
> > pin. (Manual says). The micros I have seems OTP, I must go to external.
>
> Which chip number/manufacturer is in your boards? There are many MCS-51
> "grandsons" out there, from many companies.

I've desoldered three. Two PLCC type, Intel 80C51 and 80C52, and one Dual in
line 40 pins intel 8051ah.

> > Well I want to hear your suggestions, in how to make a simple "external"
> > programmer. My first thought is to make a board with a pic :) an a flash
> > memory. The pic receives, via RS232, the .hex and load the program to
the
> > flash. Then reset the 8051.
>
> If you want do use the PC serial port, it's a good idea. However, the
> LPT-based approaches are more simple.

OK!

> Be aware that  "traditional" MCS-51 derivatives needs to be programmed
> in parallel, through the use of its data/address buses, and they need
> high voltage Vpp.
> The newest, In-System Programmable clones needs a really simple hw
> interface.

I'm reading that right now.
"ACCESSING EXTERNAL MEMORY
External Program Memory is acessed under two conditions:
1) Whenever -EA signal= is active;or
2) Whenever the program counter (PC) contains a
number that is larger than OFFFH(1FFFH for the
8052).
This requires that the ROMless versions have -EA wired
low to enable the lower 4K (8K for the 8032) program
bytes to be fetched from external memory.
etc.

> > My intention is to learn with a real 8051 type micro,... not virtual (I
have
{Quote hidden}

...which was suggested by others piclisters
(but I'm a kind  of rubbish picker. It is a pitty to have a lot of unused
components just because there are one better.) Ok, Ok, pointing to the goal:
learn 8051 programming.

> For these Atmel chips there are many programmers out there in the net
> (e.g.: AEC-ISP), very simple (only buffers for the ISP serial programming
> lines, from LPT port to the uC) just do a Google search.
>
> Here at our School i'm a teaching assistant in the microcontroller's
> introductory course, and we use mainly the Atmel chips. If you're
> interested, i can share a brief document with the hw details for an ISP
> programmer that works with Atmel's free programming windoze sw,
> "AT89ISP".

In that case I hope to contact you soon by phone.

> Best regards,
>
> S.-

See you soon.
Dennis Crawley


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2004\10\15@172014 by Sebastian Garcia

picon face
Dennis Crawley <.....proyectosenpicKILLspamspam@spam@yahoo.com.ar> wrote:

> Sebastian wrote:
> > Hi Dennis,
> > Espero que tus cosas marchen bien.
>
> Indeed they do. I'm studying some math's, btw Newton's law solved by
> dT/dt= -k(T-Tm), I have "pending" a simple experiment: a datalogger with a
> precision PTC droped by an oil company because they brake the glass. Not the
> bubble in which the ptc is. I have repaired it and still have a good
> precision.
>
> The experiment is about to demonstrate Newton's findings. I will use the
> frizzer and a coper bar whith the ptc inside and a lm35 out side. There are
> a lot of things to do, to play with the temperature
> gathering steps, the initial temperature of the bar, type of ADC,
> noise,...etc.


Good idea.
It's interesting to note the many application areas of this simple d.e.


{Quote hidden}

Old (but good) boys...


{Quote hidden}

Yes, case two when you use the internal program memory and isn't enough
room for your program.


> This requires that the ROMless versions have -EA wired
> low to enable the lower 4K (8K for the 8032) program
> bytes to be fetched from external memory.
> etc.


Exactly.


{Quote hidden}

I suggested it 'cause you can start learning straightforward with only US$3 and
a very simple conection ("programmer") between PC's LPT port and your uC
test board. ISP is like ICSP.

If you plan to use your chips (without internal flash) with external
memory, you'll
need a parallel memory programmer (not so simple to build if you don't have
one yet) and, of course, a parallel flash/EEPROM/EPROM/NVRAM memory.


{Quote hidden}

I have the PDF online, you can take a look to see how simple is the
ISP interface.

 http://www.fi.uba.ar/~sgarcia/6609/NotasISP.pdf

Anyway, don't hesitate to contact me if you need some help to get
acquainted with the
8051 family.

Regards,

S.-
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