Post by thread:[EE] 4-bit microcontrollers [was "where to go aft

>>> I would suggest widening your horizon to very cheap chips, which are >>> probably difficult to use and obscurely documented, . >> >> and only available in mask-rom, with expensive and poorly documented >> devtools... > > ...that don't work all that nicely.. Heh. There's money in making things work when everyone else finds them "obscure, poorly documented, and not nice..." Speaking of which, I seem to have had one of those "buy" impulses that resulted in my acquiring a significant number of OTP 4-bit microcontrollers (under the "4 bit microcontrollers migh be interesting to look at, especially at about $0.20 each...) These are toshiba TLCS-47 series devices. Does anyone know anything about them? I'm finding the freeware or cheap development tools non-existant as well as obscure. (OTOH, there's interesting arcitectural fossils - "not borrow" flags and backward subtract instructions, for instance...) Thanks Bill W -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

At 05:50 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Heh. There's money in making things work when everyone else finds them >"obscure, poorly documented, and not nice..." Shhh.. everybody will want some. That's one thing my late father-in-law the investment banker taught me- if you can find an unpleasant task, there's usually a good profit in fulfilling that need (preferably with employees doing the dirty work). >Speaking of which, I seem to have had one of those "buy" impulses that >resulted in my acquiring a significant number of OTP 4-bit >microcontrollers (under the "4 bit microcontrollers migh be interesting >to look at, especially at about $0.20 each...) These are toshiba >TLCS-47 series devices. Does anyone know anything about them? I'm >finding the freeware or cheap development tools non-existant as well as >obscure. (OTOH, there's interesting arcitectural fossils - "not borrow" >flags and backward subtract instructions, for instance...) backward from the PIC or just backward? Here's a free assembler: ftp://ftp.uni-stuttgart.de/pub/systems/msdos/programming/as/ Sounds like the sort of thing where there are probably development systems sitting around gathering dust, but finding one is the challenge. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" spam_OUTspeffTakeThisOuTinterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

<flabbergast = ON> TWENTY CENTS????!?!??!!!?!?!!!! Holy Shamolie! </flabbergast> -- Lawrence Lile William Chops Westfield <.....billwKILLspam@spam@CISCO.COM> Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list <PICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> 02/11/2003 07:50 PM Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list To: .....PICLISTKILLspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU cc: Subject: Re: [EE] 4-bit microcontrollers [was "where to go after PICs"] >>> I would suggest widening your horizon to very cheap chips, which are >>> probably difficult to use and obscurely documented, . >> >> and only available in mask-rom, with expensive and poorly documented >> devtools... > > ...that don't work all that nicely.. Heh. There's money in making things work when everyone else finds them "obscure, poorly documented, and not nice..." Speaking of which, I seem to have had one of those "buy" impulses that resulted in my acquiring a significant number of OTP 4-bit microcontrollers (under the "4 bit microcontrollers migh be interesting to look at, especially at about $0.20 each...) These are toshiba TLCS-47 series devices. Does anyone know anything about them? I'm finding the freeware or cheap development tools non-existant as well as obscure. (OTOH, there's interesting arcitectural fossils - "not borrow" flags and backward subtract instructions, for instance...) Thanks Bill W -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Wednesday 12 February 2003 02:25 pm, you wrote: > (OTOH, there's interesting > arcitectural fossils - "not borrow" flags and backward subtract > instructions, for instance...) Well you should feel right at home there then. Sounds pretty much like the PIC as far as the "not borrow" thing on subtracts. Then the SUBLW falls nicely into the backwards subtract category. At least the mnemonic is backwards from what really happens. michael -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> (OTOH, there's interesting > arcitectural fossils - "not borrow" flags and backward subtract > instructions, for instance...) Well you should feel right at home there then. Sounds pretty much like the PIC as far as the "not borrow" thing on subtracts. Then the SUBLW falls nicely into the backwards subtract category. At least the mnemonic is backwards from what really happens. Well, yes, exactly. That's what made it "intersting." (Otherwise it would just be "odd." :-) I don't know whether the TLCS-47 controllers are new enough to have copied the PIC in this respect, or whether this sort of thing is common in 4-bit microcontrollers (which in turn might help explain why the PIC does it that way.) BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Wednesday 12 February 2003 07:04 pm, you wrote: > > (OTOH, there's interesting > > arcitectural fossils - "not borrow" flags and backward subtract > > instructions, for instance...) > > Well you should feel right at home there then. Sounds pretty > much like the PIC as far as the "not borrow" thing on subtracts. > Then the SUBLW falls nicely into the backwards subtract category. At > least the mnemonic is backwards from what really happens. > > Well, yes, exactly. That's what made it "intersting." (Otherwise it > would just be "odd." :-) I don't know whether the TLCS-47 controllers > are new enough to have copied the PIC in this respect, or whether > this sort of thing is common in 4-bit microcontrollers (which in turn > might help explain why the PIC does it that way.) I can kinda understand the "not borrow" thing because of the way that subtraction works internally. The (IIRC) subtrahend is transformed into it's twos-compliment form and then added to the (IIRC) minuend, resulting in the carry flag being backward. Who knows why the SUBLW works the way it does, or even better, why the mnemonic is wrong. It should be SUBWL, since that's what happens. ;-) michael (never fully satisified) -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> Speaking of which, I seem to have had one of those "buy" impulses that > resulted in my acquiring a significant number of OTP 4-bit > microcontrollers (under the "4 bit microcontrollers migh be interesting > to look at, especially at about $0.20 each...) These are toshiba > TLCS-47 series devices. Does anyone know anything about them? > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics A net search revealed quite a bit of info on the toshiba 4bit chips. May I ask if 20 cents was a new purchase price or was it a surplus deal? -Roman -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email EraseMElistservspam_OUTTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

> These are toshiba TLCS-47 series devices. Does anyone know > anything about them? A net search revealed quite a bit of info on the toshiba 4bit chips. May I ask if 20 cents was a new purchase price or was it a surplus deal? I can find reasonable amounts of info, but no assembler other than gas, no simulators, no programmers, etc. 20 cents was a surplus deal - a guy on ebay was selling several sets of 878 or so... I got some pics for about that price too - you just have to like the less popular chips... :-) BillW -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listservspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body