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'[EE] MCU and electronics development on Linux'
2005\05\16@223728 by Chen Xiao Fan

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Hi all,

I am now trying to learn to do more things on Linux (Ubuntu 5.04 now on a
Dell600M and an Amd64 desktop). Now on Linux I can do most of what I usually
do in Windows. However I also want to do some electronics design (including
MCU development) from Linux. At work I am involved mainly in electronic
circuits design (mainly analog circuits) and some 8-bit MCU development.

For PIC I know the good GNUPIC webpage. However the thing we have is not so
good as in Windows. At least MPLAB ICD2 is not supported now. Hitech C is
supported but it is expensive. SDCC is far away from its prime time in
Linux. I hear that there are users using Wine with MPLAB and MCC18. Today I
also saw a post of working C30 (without library) in the Microchip Forum. It
would be nice that GNUPIC can include more things.

For MCS51, there may exist some working Linux compiler like SDCC. However
nothing like Keil is out there. Could someone point out a good web site on
this topic?

For AVR, it seems we have very good Linux support (AVR-GCC and others). The
AVR-GCC list is very good, there are no OT junks there.

For Freescale HC08, it seems the support is limited as well.

For MSP430, MSPGCC exists but it seems that the new version are only out for
Windows.

For higher end MCU like ARM, it seems that Linux support is quite good.

For electronics circuits design, SPICE simulation tools exist but nothing is
as good as PSPICE (using version 8 and 10 at work and the free student
version at home). For layout design, it seems Eagle is what people use under
Linux. At work we are using P-CAD. Any good web page out there?

Best regards,
Xiaofan

2005\05\17@010832 by Stephen R Phillips

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--- Chen Xiao Fan <spam_OUTxiaofanTakeThisOuTspamsg.pepperl-fuchs.com> wrote:
>
> For PIC I know the good GNUPIC webpage. However the thing we have is
> not so
> good as in Windows. At least MPLAB ICD2 is not supported now. Hitech
> C is
> supported but it is expensive. SDCC is far away from its prime time
> in
> Linux. I hear that there are users using Wine with MPLAB and MCC18.
> Today I
> also saw a post of working C30 (without library) in the Microchip
> Forum. It
> would be nice that GNUPIC can include more things.
>
> For MCS51, there may exist some working Linux compiler like SDCC.
> However nothing like Keil is out there. Could someone point out a
good
> web site on this topic?

I think you might be expecting too much of many of these projects.
Unless you wish to contribute some time to them? :)
>
> For AVR, it seems we have very good Linux support (AVR-GCC and
> others). The
> AVR-GCC list is very good, there are no OT junks there.
>
> For Freescale HC08, it seems the support is limited as well.
>
HC11/12 has significantly more support
http://www.gnu.org/software/m68hc11/

> For MSP430, MSPGCC exists but it seems that the new version are only
> out for Windows.
>
> For higher end MCU like ARM, it seems that Linux support is quite
> good.
>
Yes if it's more powerful it's more likely to have a C port to it :)

> For electronics circuits design, SPICE simulation tools exist but
> nothing is as good as PSPICE (using version 8 and 10 at work and the
> free student version at home). For layout design, it seems Eagle is
> what people use under Linux. At work we are using P-CAD. Any good web

> page out there?

Although far from perfect GEDA might be what you are looking for
http://www.geda.seul.org/
Have a looksie.
If you are expecting highly refined toolks on Linux, you'll likely need
to pay for them.  Linux is a low priority for cheap software comercial
developement at the moment I think.


Stephen R. Phillips was here
Please be advised what was said may be absolutely wrong, and hereby this disclaimer follows.  I reserve the right to be wrong and admit it in front of the entire world.

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2005\05\17@031917 by Chen Xiao Fan

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Too bad I am not a software developer and not be able to
help a lot on this. Anyway I will still be able to continue
to do what I can not do in Linux in Windows. Anyway, Linux
has made a lot of progress over the last 7 years (first
touched Linux in 1998).

I have not looked at gEDA yet. I will have a look at it.

By the way, other than Hitech PICC,  I do not know any
highly refined tools on Linux for PIC development. Generally
speaking, there are no good 8/16bit MCU development tools
under Linux other than those supported by GCC (AVR, HC12, H8,
etc).

This is quite different from the IC design world. All major
tools there seem to support Linux first. Of course they are
high cost tools.

Xiaofan

{Original Message removed}

2005\05\17@034901 by William Chops Westfield

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On May 17, 2005, at 12:19 AM, Chen Xiao Fan wrote:
>
> By the way, other than Hitech PICC,  I do not know any
> highly refined tools on Linux for PIC development. Generally
> speaking, there are no good 8/16bit MCU development tools
> under Linux other than those supported by GCC (AVR, HC12, H8,
> etc).
>
Aren't there some relatively powerful assemblers that run under linux?
I seem to recall that I had no troubles compiling AVR and PIC assemblers
for my Mac...
And there's emacs, of course :-)  (The "design environment" philosophy
under linux is different than for windows.  IDEs are likely to be less
popular, because people already have their favorite editors, and
command-line
tools are more popular for compile/etc.)  For that matter, some of the
DOS
microcontroller tools should work fine under DOSEMU....

BillW

2005\05\17@043925 by Chen Xiao Fan

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I do not like Emacs at all. From the very beginning I never
installed EMACS and TETEX. Vi is acceptable. :(
I do know I need to learn Make in order to work in Linux.

For Linux newbie like me, GUIs like GNOME/KDE are easier to use.
As for Wine/DOSEMU, how to run MPLAB/MCC18 working under Wine?

Of course I will try gputils and gpsim first. Now at least I have
Pickit 1 working in Linux. :)

Xiaofan

{Original Message removed}

2005\05\17@060032 by Hulatt, Jon

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> For Linux newbie like me, GUIs like GNOME/KDE are easier to use.
> As for Wine/DOSEMU, how to run MPLAB/MCC18 working under Wine?

I doubt you'll get mplab working. mplab uses COM quite extensively,
which is not very well support under wine. You might get mcc18 working
(command line only!).

Have you checked out gputils? http://gputils.sourceforge.net/ they work
pretty well.

Then you've got sdcc (small devices c compiler). The CVS snapshots have
much better pic support than the latest releases.
http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/

jon

2005\05\17@130234 by Shawn Tan Ser Ngiap

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> For Linux newbie like me, GUIs like GNOME/KDE are easier to use.
> As for Wine/DOSEMU, how to run MPLAB/MCC18 working under Wine?

PiKDev?? It even supports some standard programmers... JDM included...

cheers..

--
with metta,
Shawn Tan

2005\05\17@152555 by Peter

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On Tue, 17 May 2005, Chen Xiao Fan wrote:

> I do not like Emacs at all. From the very beginning I never
> installed EMACS and TETEX. Vi is acceptable. :(

Let's not start that war again. emacs is to vi what a country is to a
big city. emacs is known as the operating system with underpowered boot
loaders ;-) On the other hand, vim is a powerful vi compatible editor
that has a standard editor gui and is easy to use (and also functions as
an ide).

> I do know I need to learn Make in order to work in Linux.

'Learning make' is not necessary. (gnu) Make has so many sane defults
built in that it's really easy to use. Tiny example: given foo.c bar.c
baz.c a.h b.h as 5 c files in a directory, and a makefile that contains
only the three lines:

OBJS = foo.o bar.o baz.o
HDRS = a.h b.h
all: app

app: $(OBJS) $(HDRS)

typing make at a command line in that directory will build the
application (recompiling only the parts that changed). Adding CC = sdcc
in the makefile will compile with sdcc for pic or whatever you need.
Adding CFLAGS = ... sets compiler flags etc. Make is *really* easy to
use. Also 'ide' integration in vi is very powerful. Assuming you use vi
in the directory above, while editing say foo.c, in command mode, type
:make and the make command above will run *and* vim will read back any
errors and jump in the source directly to the line with the first error.
Next error is :cn previous is :cp, current is :cc . :help inside text
mode vim is your friend, or click on help in the gui. You can invoke vim
as vim for text mode and gvim as gui.

I use vi almost exclusively for C and asm file editing. It has syntax
highlighting built in and very powerful macro and regular expression
processing, including function-level source code browsing (see ctags and
^]/^T).

> For Linux newbie like me, GUIs like GNOME/KDE are easier to use.
> As for Wine/DOSEMU, how to run MPLAB/MCC18 working under Wine?

MPLAB 16 bits runs under wine. Newer MPLABs are not so sure to run.

good luck,
Peter

2005\05\17@205943 by Chen Xiao Fan

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Thanks for all the suggestions. I do not really need an IDE
actually. I used plain vi most of the time for text editing
before this Ubuntu trial. Now I use simple gedit most often :(.
I like Ultraedit on Windows so maybe I would like to find
some similar editor in Linux. I will learn more about vim/gvim.

I would like to learn more about make. It is good for me to
understand more in order to understand other people's program.

I guess I will forget about Mplab/MCC18 first and start from the
basic like gputil and gpsim.

Xiaofan

2005\05\17@210130 by Chen Xiao Fan

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PikDev and GPICD are not so stable right now. And too bad I do not
have any JDM programmer. I will try to use Wisp628 instead.

Xiaofan

-----Original Message-----
From: Shawn Tan Ser Ngiap [.....shawn.tanKILLspamspam@spam@aeste.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 1:03 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [EE] MCU and electronics development on Linux


> For Linux newbie like me, GUIs like GNOME/KDE are easier to use.
> As for Wine/DOSEMU, how to run MPLAB/MCC18 working under Wine?

PiKDev?? It even supports some standard programmers... JDM included...

cheers..

--
with metta,
Shawn Tan
--

2005\05\17@235511 by William Chops Westfield

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On May 17, 2005, at 5:59 PM, Chen Xiao Fan wrote:

> I do not really need an IDE actually.

I didn't mean to start a vi vs emacs debate.  The point is that in the
unix
world, what usually passes for an IDE was arrived at by adding access
to the
compilers, shells, and so on, to the editors.  In the windows world,
people
seem to add editing functions to the compilers instead.  I prefer the
former!

BillW

2005\05\18@043506 by Chen Xiao Fan

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Sorry but I do not quite understand what you say about the
Windows world. To me it is  the same as in the Linux
world. MPLAB (as an IDE) adds access to assemblers/compilers.
Even MS Visual Studio does the same thing (maybe more).
It is just that every one likes to add his own IDE. This
is also true for the Linux world now. Maybe it is because
of too many newbies like me who do not want to learn
those advanced tools :).

Xiaofan

{Original Message removed}

2005\05\18@045625 by Alan B. Pearce

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>I like Ultraedit on Windows so maybe I would like to find
>some similar editor in Linux.

Ultraedit runs on Linux as well.

2005\05\18@051959 by Chen Xiao Fan

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How to do it? Under wine? I have yet to run anything
under wine.

Xiaofan

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan B. Pearce [A.B.PearcespamKILLspamrl.ac.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 4:56 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [EE] MCU and electronics development on Linux


>I like Ultraedit on Windows so maybe I would like to find
>some similar editor in Linux.

Ultraedit runs on Linux as well.

2005\05\25@012436 by Chen Xiao Fan

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I've tried Version 9.00 of Ultraedit and it does not work
under Wine.

Anyway, editors as good as Ultraedit are not that important
now under Linux and under Windows. Back in the MPLAB 5.xx
days, the editor was so lousy that I need to use Ultraedit.
MPLAB 6/7 are okay. Maybe Gvim is what I need to learn
under Linux.

Xiaofan


-----Original Message-----
From: Alan B. Pearce [.....A.B.PearceKILLspamspam.....rl.ac.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 4:56 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [EE] MCU and electronics development on Linux


>I like Ultraedit on Windows so maybe I would like to find
>some similar editor in Linux.

Ultraedit runs on Linux as well.

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