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'[EE]:High Voltage LOW\no Current'
2001\02\21@185342 by Pat Smith

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Looking for a way to produce ~600 volts from a ~9 volt
battery.Is this possible? Any Suggestions?

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2001\02\21@193646 by David Minkler

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Hi,
> Looking for a way to produce ~600 volts from a ~9 volt
> battery.Is this possible? Any Suggestions?
Actually, it's pretty easy.  What are your voltage regulation/current
output/price/size/weight/other constraints?  How many do you plan to
make?
Regards,
Dave

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2001\02\21@204650 by Herbert Graf

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> Looking for a way to produce ~600 volts from a ~9 volt
> battery.Is this possible? Any Suggestions?

       Yes, in fact I have seen circuits that can go way higher than that (even
stun guns use similar systems). The main limitations is how quickly you need
to reach 600V, the quicker you need it the quicker you're going to kill
you're battery. TTYL

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2001\02\21@235621 by Roman Black

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Pat Smith wrote:
>
> Looking for a way to produce ~600 volts from a ~9 volt
> battery.Is this possible? Any Suggestions?

9v batteries hate current. The cells are very small
and only give useful battery life at low currents.

The camera makers have been doing this for years
(cheap flash units) and almost always use one or two
AA or AAA cell.

If you need this small and cheap why not try to
get a used camera flash unit from a garage sale
or something? You can get one quite small and
will only cost a few $. I see them all the time
and no-one ever buys them as they need the
right camera. :o)
-Roman

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2001\02\22@084751 by mike

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On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:40:51 -0800, you wrote:

>Looking for a way to produce ~600 volts from a ~9 volt
>battery.Is this possible?
Anything's possible.... given enough time, money and solder.
> Any Suggestions?
All depends on the output current - what's it for?
For low current apps, you might just be able to get this high with a
simple inductor based flyback converter, but inductor selection will
be critical, although probably still off-the-shelf.
If you need it regulated, Maxim's MAX771 can control an external HV
MOSFET - I've used this to get 200V at a few mA in the past. You need
to run the MAX771 itself from a seperate 5V supply.
No problem at all with a transformer-type inductor , but you may need
to custom wind the transformer. You may find a suitable off-the-shelf
inductor designed for small xenon flasher applications.

If the current is extremely low (microamps), an EL driver IC driving a
few stages of Cockroft-Walton multiplier may also do the job.

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2001\02\22@091925 by Thomas McGahee

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I get mine for free from those disposable cameras.

Fr. Tom McGahee

----- Original Message -----
From: Roman Black <spam_OUTfastvidTakeThisOuTspamEZY.NET.AU>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]:High Voltage LOW\no Current


{Quote hidden}

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2001\02\22@105737 by Thomas McGahee

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part 1 1350 bytes content-type:text/plain; (decoded 7bit)

The attached HV2.GIF file shows a fairly simple circuit.
The exact output voltage depends on loading factor and
the components used, especially the transformer. Mine
used a dinky little pcb mount audio transformer. I
think I got mine from Radio Shack. I have tried several
different transformers, and all have worked, but with
different output voltages.

This design (with minor changes) was used to power
a geiger counter.

The addition of an SCR triggered
second stage allowed me to drive a HV trigger transformer
originally designed for a flash lamp... that circuit
gave me about 14 kV DC out. I used that to power a
night-vision tube.

Fr. Tom McGahee

{Original Message removed}
part 2 10372 bytes content-type:image/GIF; (decode)


part 3 144 bytes
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2001\02\22@134558 by Peter L. Peres

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Build the simple circuit I have posted in the CCFL thread this week.

Peter

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2001\02\23@044659 by Roman Black

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Thomas McGahee wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Very nice circuit! It's nice to see miracles done
with a handful of cheap parts. Seems like all the
young guys these days just look in the catalogue
and buy the exact chip that does anything they
want. Nobody seems interested anymore in the art
or hobby of doing cool things with electricicty
and minimum parts.

Over the years I have built a lot of simple
inverters, they are great fun to tune, changing
parts values and getting it efficient.

It's cool that you could get a decent HV output
out of the audio transformer! I would have hand-
wound a toroid or something fiddly. Your circuit
probably puts out 1kv or so?? How did the audio
transformer hold up for insulation??

Also, I normally use high speed diodes and low
inductance toroid, looks like you had advantages
using a higher inductance laminated core
transformer. Did you use standard type diodes??
And roughly what freq did you get good efficiency
at?? I might try an audio transformer next time,
I have boxes of the things and never used them. :o)
-Roman

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2001\02\24@143410 by Thomas McGahee

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Reply interspersed within original message below:

----- Original Message -----
From: Roman Black <fastvidspamKILLspamEZY.NET.AU>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]:High Voltage LOW\no Current


{Quote hidden}

I genuinely enjoy the design process. I would MUCH
rather design something on my own with some help from
some application notes than just go out and buy the
circuit ready-built. It is not only less expensive
(in MOST cases), but I enjoy learning, investigating,
experiencing, and dsigning. It also helps me when I
am trying to teach my electronics students, since there
is nothing like first-hand experience to bring a subject
alive.

>
> Over the years I have built a lot of simple
> inverters, they are great fun to tune, changing
> parts values and getting it efficient.

One of the problems with designing stuff with whatever
you have on hand is that when someone else tries to
duplicate the design they often use parts that are
quite different. For me this is not a problem, but
students often get frustrated when they can't just
plop the parts onto a protoboard, fire it up, and have
it work perfectly the first time. It takes some
experience for them to learn that you can often learn
more from a failed experiment than you can from a
successful one.

>
> It's cool that you could get a decent HV output
> out of the audio transformer! I would have hand-
> wound a toroid or something fiddly. Your circuit
> probably puts out 1kv or so?? How did the audio
> transformer hold up for insulation??

Suprisingly, I have had absolutely no problems with
insulation breakdown on these transformers, even though
they are audio transformers. They produce the high
voltage in pulses, and not with a sine wave, so that
might be one reason they survive so well.

By the way, even a 1:1 transformer can produce quite
high voltages from a 9v supply, as it is not just
the turns ratio that is at work in these designs.
They are more like flybacks, and the inductance enters
heavily into the mix.

>
> Also, I normally use high speed diodes and low
> inductance toroid, looks like you had advantages
> using a higher inductance laminated core
> transformer. Did you use standard type diodes??
> And roughly what freq did you get good efficiency
> at?? I might try an audio transformer next time,
> I have boxes of the things and never used them. :o)
> -Roman

These HV circuits used 1,000 volt diodes that I had
purchased from a company that sold diodes to the
television repair industry. I believe they were 1kV
at 2.5 amps, simply because that was the cheapest
1kV diode they carried. A 100 ma rated diode would
have been sufficient.

According to my notes, the base of the transistor
experienced a pulse that repeated every 8 ms.
The output of the marx voltage multiplier would
ramp up in a staircase fashion, and after several
of the 8 ms periods would be sitting at the peak
output voltage. Loading was minimal in the geiger
counter circuit, and ripple was quite low.

One circuit produced a fairly well regulated output
voltage by using a voltage divider and a transistor
in a negative feedback circuit where the feedback
transistor's collector would pull the oscillator's
base to ground once the output voltage was at the
desired value. Simple, but reasonably effective.

Fr. Tom McGahee

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