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'[EE]:F-set or Cable tracer'
2002\08\28@084618 by Chris Wheeler

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I just bought a kit to make my own F-Set, and I am having problems with
the
probe.

Its basicly a 2N5484 FET followed by a bc549 feeding a LM386 amp which
detects the signal radiated by a tone generator based on a pair of 555s.

Does anyone have or know where I can look at a circuit diagram for a
similar
product?
The kit has only a circuit diagram which does not match the parts or the
PCB. Foolishly I assembled it by following the PCB, which may or may
not be
correct.

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CW.

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2002\08\28@094804 by Rick C.

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part 0 44 bytes
his is a multi-part message in MIME format.
part 1 961 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii (decoded 7bit)

I had a friend that worked for the local phone company. He lent me his
fox/hound and I reversed engineered it. Here is the hound........    (Fox is
also available if you need it.)
Rick

Chris Wheeler wrote:

{Quote hidden}


part 2 7188 bytes content-type:image/gif; (decode)


part 3 136 bytes
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2002\08\28@101737 by Chris Wheeler

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> I had a friend that worked for the local phone company. He lent me his
> fox/hound and I reversed engineered it. Here is the hound........    (Fox
is
> also available if you need it.)
> Rick

Thanks Rick.

Hmmm that is a lot less complex design than the one I have.
What FET would you recommend? The design I have has the 2N5484 which has the
lowest Ig  and Vgs in the chart I have.

I would appreciate the curcuit for the fox too.

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2002\08\28@130342 by Nelson Hochberg

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Okay,  I'm sure this was covered in Elect 101 while I was sleeping (which
was most of the time since I thought the whole class was a review) but what
is a fox/hound?

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2002\08\28@141647 by Rick C.

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For this purpose, any N ch JFET will work. Even the MPF102.
Rick

Chris Wheeler wrote:

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2002\08\28@143729 by Rick C.

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The phone lineman use a tone generating device to trace a single line in a
bundle of pairs. They put a tone generator module (fox), rich in square waves,
at one end or one place in a building, and take the detector (hound) and sniff
all the wires at another part of a building. A strong howl coming from a pair,
even without touching the cable, can be detected. The stronger the signal on a
pair, the more likely you have the right one.

I've seen these units sold in some of the more well-stocked hardware stores.

Rick

Nelson Hochberg wrote:

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2002\08\28@144238 by Rick C.

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Here are two sites......

http://www.elexp.com/tst_fox.htm
http://www.jdr.com/interact/item.asp?itemno=gr-fox-hound

Rick

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2002\08\28@170807 by Rick C.

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part 0 44 bytes
his is a multi-part message in MIME format.
part 1 891 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii (decoded 7bit)

Enclosed is the FOX. I layed out circuit boards for both. Just a little bigger
than a postage stamp. Contact me off post if you are interested.
Rick

Chris Wheeler wrote:

{Quote hidden}


part 2 5011 bytes content-type:image/gif; (decode)


part 3 136 bytes
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2002\08\28@200135 by Nelson Hochberg

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Thanks Rick,

I actually installed telephones about ten years back and used those things.
We called them signal or line tracers though.


> {Original Message removed}

2002\08\28@204455 by Dipperstein, Michael

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We manufacture and sell them, and we call them tone and probes.  I could tell
you where you can purchase them, but I'd have to change the tag to [AD].

-Mike

> {Original Message removed}

2002\08\28@205026 by Barry Gershenfeld

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>I actually installed telephones about ten years back and used those things.
>We called them signal or line tracers though.

Anyone ever hear the transmitter referred to as a "mouse" ?

Barry

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2002\08\29@044417 by Peter Crowcroft

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A cable tracer kit is going to be published in the october, 2002 edition of
Silicon Chip, the Australian electronics magazine.

You can read it at

http://www.kitsrus.com/pdf/k181_article.pdf

you can buy it from Oatley Electronics in Sydney for about $US12 plus postage.

regards,

Peter Crowcroft
            DIY Electronics (HK) Ltd
      PO Box 88458, Sham Shui Po, Hong Kong
Factory: voice 852-2304 2250    Fax: 852-2729 1400
         M/F, 97 Fuk Wa Street, Sham Shui Po
Home: voice 852-2720 0255          Mobile: 6273 2049
Web:  http://www.kitsrus.com        Email: EraseMEpeterspamspamspamBeGonekitsrus.com
      Yahoo Messenger  'peter5999'  with webcam
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2002\08\30@103257 by Chris Wheeler

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From: "Peter Crowcroft" <peterSTOPspamspamspam_OUTKITSRUS.COM>
> A cable tracer kit is going to be published in the october, 2002 edition
of
> Silicon Chip, the Australian electronics magazine.
>
> You can read it at
>
> http://www.kitsrus.com/pdf/k181_article.pdf

This is the one I bought and built. Very dissapointed that all I got was the
schematic and the bits. The pcb looked second rate too. I possibly just got
unlucky and got the dud one.

I'm going to break the one I built down and make sure there were no
mistakes, and test the LM386 and the two 555s

Thanks for the PDF.

Postscipt:
I checked the fox against both schmatics and the schematic has pins 1 and 4
of the 555 to gnd, pcb does not (correct). Both schematics disagree with the
layout and have the C8050 with the emitter and collector reversed (assuming
of couse that the pinout shown in the article is correct on page 2)


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2002\08\30@115612 by Chris Wheeler

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HA! Thought so. The article has the C8050 pinout the wrong way around.
http://www.ushasemi.com/pdf/Transistors/C8050.pdf

Pins correct for the BC549 tho.
http://www.electronicsplanet.ch/Praxis/datenbla/BC549.pdf

The other circuit has inconsistancies too. There is a 220 ohm resistor
between the capacitor on Q3's emitter and gnd. I don't see it on the
schematic, but its there on the the PCB.

I'm building the circuits on a breadboard with fresh parts to work out where
the problem is. So far I've verified the 555s work and the first stage is
oscillating.



> I checked the fox against both schmatics and the schematic has pins 1 and
4
> of the 555 to gnd, pcb does not (correct). Both schematics disagree with
the
> layout and have the C8050 with the emitter and collector reversed
(assuming
{Quote hidden}

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'[EE]:F-set or Cable tracer'
2002\09\01@032047 by Chris Wheeler
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From: "Chris Wheeler" <spamBeGonecwheeler2STOPspamspamEraseMETELSTRA.COM>
> HA! Thought so. The article has the C8050 pinout the wrong way around.
> http://www.ushasemi.com/pdf/Transistors/C8050.pdf
>
> Pins correct for the BC549 tho.
> http://www.electronicsplanet.ch/Praxis/datenbla/BC549.pdf
>
> The other circuit has inconsistancies too. There is a 220 ohm resistor
> between the capacitor on Q3's emitter and gnd. I don't see it on the
> schematic, but its there on the the PCB.
>
> I'm building the circuits on a breadboard with fresh parts to work out
where
> the problem is. So far I've verified the 555s work and the first stage is
> oscillating.

I tested the LM386 on breadboard and made a crude amp from the data sheet.
I've been able to verify The Fox works now on the pcb.

The probe PCB still wont amplify, so I'm planning to build the circuit up on
the breadboard, and if it works as advertised, then the PCB must be open
somewhere.

I built the other probe that Rick C posted and that works. I've had to
compromise with the component values, 220ohm and 270ohm rather than the 240
and 260 in his circuit.
It works very well.

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2002\09\01@140928 by Peter L. Peres

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>I tested the LM386 on breadboard and made a crude amp from the data sheet.
>I've been able to verify The Fox works now on the pcb.
>
>The probe PCB still wont amplify, so I'm planning to build the circuit up on
>the breadboard, and if it works as advertised, then the PCB must be open
>somewhere.

LM386 are known to be temperamental. Use a scope to check for
oscillation.

Peter

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