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'[EE]:Angular Rate Sensors'
2001\03\07@144613 by Brandon Fosdick

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After seeing all of the discussion about using accelerometers in model
rockets I decided to look into making a full inertial measurement unit
on the cheap and real small. Digikey has surface mount 3-axis
accelerometers ($25 ea). Does anybody know of a good source for angular
rate sensors? Naturally I'd like to find a single chip with all 3 axes
on it, so far I can only find single axis chips.

I know you can buy full IMU's commercially but they tend to be expensive
and bulky. If anyone knows of an inexpensive source for IMU's let me
know.

-Brandon

P.S. I'm looking for sources in the US.

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2001\03\07@164822 by Rick Mann

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on 3/7/01 11:36 AM, Brandon Fosdick at .....bfozKILLspamspam@spam@GLUE.UMD.EDU wrote:

> accelerometers ($25 ea). Does anybody know of a good source for angular

My roommate has a little electric helicopter thing that has four rotors. It
has three axes of angular acceleration sensing, so I'll look at those chips
for their part numbers when I get home and let you know. This is something
I've wanted to do for a long time, as well.

If you add a flux valve, you get what's called in aviation a solid-state
AHRS...Attitude & Heading Reference System. It's pronounced "ay-hars".

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2001\03\07@190118 by Brandon Fosdick

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Rick Mann wrote:
>
> on 3/7/01 11:36 AM, Brandon Fosdick at EraseMEbfozspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTGLUE.UMD.EDU wrote:
>
> > accelerometers ($25 ea). Does anybody know of a good source for angular
>
> My roommate has a little electric helicopter thing that has four rotors. It
> has three axes of angular acceleration sensing, so I'll look at those chips
> for their part numbers when I get home and let you know. This is something
> I've wanted to do for a long time, as well.

Is that the DragonFly or whatever? I think I've seen a webpage for it,
but I forget where.

> If you add a flux valve, you get what's called in aviation a solid-state
> AHRS...Attitude & Heading Reference System. It's pronounced "ay-hars".

I thought about that, but I'm going for a minimalist approach, as in
minimal components and dollars. Its easy enough to zero the software
reference before launch/takeoff. Plus, you can get an initial
orientation to feed to the integrator by using the gravity and angular
rate vectors while the vehicle is stationary on the ground. Since that's
sufficient for my purposes I was planning to save flux gates for later
versions, as needed.

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2001\03\07@210819 by Olin Lathrop

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> After seeing all of the discussion about using accelerometers in model
> rockets I decided to look into making a full inertial measurement unit
> on the cheap and real small. Digikey has surface mount 3-axis
> accelerometers ($25 ea). Does anybody know of a good source for angular
> rate sensors? Naturally I'd like to find a single chip with all 3 axes
> on it, so far I can only find single axis chips.

Analog devices makes relatively cheap gyros.  Not sure about multiple on one
chip though.


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Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Devens Massachusetts
(978) 772-3129, @spam@olinKILLspamspamembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2001\03\07@214617 by Nicholas Irias

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Tokin makes single axis piezo gyrometers and they are available in small
quantities.  They also have an all-in-one unit at
http://www.tokin.com/Tokin_America_Products/46/p46a/p46a.html

At least with piezo units, you will have some drift over time.  Most
applications of these units use a high pass filter to get rid of the drift,
but that means you cant use them to detect slow, steady rotation.

{Original Message removed}

2001\03\07@224556 by Brandon Fosdick

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Olin Lathrop wrote:
>
> > After seeing all of the discussion about using accelerometers in model
> > rockets I decided to look into making a full inertial measurement unit
> > on the cheap and real small. Digikey has surface mount 3-axis
> > accelerometers ($25 ea). Does anybody know of a good source for angular
> > rate sensors? Naturally I'd like to find a single chip with all 3 axes
> > on it, so far I can only find single axis chips.
>
> Analog devices makes relatively cheap gyros.  Not sure about multiple on one
> chip though.

I looked on the analog page and couldn't find any rate sensors, only
accelerometers. Do you have a direct link to what you're referring to?

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2001\03\07@224820 by Brandon Fosdick

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They're small enough, but the USB interface is more complicated than what I'm
looking for.

Nicholas Irias wrote:
>
> Tokin makes single axis piezo gyrometers and they are available in small
> quantities.  They also have an all-in-one unit at
> http://www.tokin.com/Tokin_America_Products/46/p46a/p46a.html
>
> At least with piezo units, you will have some drift over time.  Most
> applications of these units use a high pass filter to get rid of the drift,
> but that means you cant use them to detect slow, steady rotation.
>
> {Original Message removed}

2001\03\07@230132 by Rick Mann

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on 3/7/01 7:48 PM, Brandon Fosdick at spamBeGonebfozspamBeGonespamGLUE.UMD.EDU wrote:

> They're small enough, but the USB interface is more complicated than what I'm
> looking for.

Look at their products, and you can find the actual rate sensor (not that
module the link was for). I had the same reaction.

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2001\03\07@232039 by Nicholas Irias

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Did you look at the single axis Tokin sensors?
http://www.tokin.com/Tokin_America_Products/46/p46c/p46c.html

Simple analog outputs, at least if you have A/D channels available.

{Original Message removed}

2001\03\08@065516 by Justin Fielding

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Buy a Heading lock piezo gyro used in model helicopters.  look at
http://www.towerhobbies.com or http://www.futaba-rc.com


{Original Message removed}

2001\03\08@092700 by Olin Lathrop

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> I looked on the analog page and couldn't find any rate sensors, only
> accelerometers. Do you have a direct link to what you're referring to?

Sorry about that.  One of my current projects is using both accellerometers
and gyros and I got the manufacturers mixed up.  We are buying the
accellerometers from Analog Devices and the gyroscopes from Murata
(http://www.murata.com).  I've heard that Analog Devices is working on
gyros, but these won't be out for about a year, and will be higher precision
and higher price than the Murata offerings.


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Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Devens Massachusetts
(978) 772-3129, olinEraseMEspam.....embedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2001\03\08@111444 by Brandon Fosdick

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I've looked at those. They're all single axis and have PWM interfaces.
The single-axis part I can deal with (but I don't want to), though the
PWM is more complexity that I want, especialy when I'd have to deal with
3 channels of it.


Justin Fielding wrote:
>
> Buy a Heading lock piezo gyro used in model helicopters.  look at
> http://www.towerhobbies.com or http://www.futaba-rc.com
>
> {Original Message removed}

2001\03\08@111650 by Brandon Fosdick

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Olin Lathrop wrote:
>
> > I looked on the analog page and couldn't find any rate sensors, only
> > accelerometers. Do you have a direct link to what you're referring to?
>
> Sorry about that.  One of my current projects is using both accellerometers
> and gyros and I got the manufacturers mixed up.  We are buying the
> accellerometers from Analog Devices and the gyroscopes from Murata
> (http://www.murata.com).  I've heard that Analog Devices is working on
> gyros, but these won't be out for about a year, and will be higher precision
> and higher price than the Murata offerings.

I've seen the Murata offerings already. Still only single-axis but it
looks like I'm just going to have to deal with that. Any idea where I
can get the micro-machined silicon variety as opposed to the piezo type?

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2001\03\08@210556 by Olin Lathrop

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> I've seen the Murata offerings already. Still only single-axis but it
> looks like I'm just going to have to deal with that. Any idea where I
> can get the micro-machined silicon variety as opposed to the piezo type?

You can get very high end aviation gyros from Draper Labs, but they are
not cheap.


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Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Devens Massachusetts
(978) 772-3129, EraseMEolinspamembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2001\03\13@233456 by Brandon Fosdick

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Well, it looks like until Analog comes out with their stuff next year or Kionix
decides to respond to my email the Tokin sensors are my only option. Their
website doesn't seem to be very hobby friendly (no prices, no "where to buy"
info), does anyone know where I can buy their sensors? And how much they cost?

BTW, I've put a webpage up at http://terrandev.com/ins.html. Its still very
basic and not very pretty. If anyone knows more about US laws regarding guided
model rockets please let me know since I'm not really sure if I need that
disclaimer at the top. (A friend seems to think so)

Nicholas Irias wrote:
>
> Did you look at the single axis Tokin sensors?
> http://www.tokin.com/Tokin_America_Products/46/p46c/p46c.html
>
> Simple analog outputs, at least if you have A/D channels available.
>
> {Original Message removed}

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