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'[EE]: success making a PCB'
2002\03\09@224636 by Cliff Griffin

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Just wanted to share an experience I recently had making a PCB. I've made
tiny ones before, but this one is 3x4", and the largest I've etched myself.
My first attempt was not successful, using the iron-on Toner Transfer
System. First, one side wouldn't take the toner in a couple places. I tried
to iron down a patch over it, but that failed too. I managed to get a trace
with a marker, but found that white-out worked better. (Yes, I cleaned the
board, so I don't know what was up with the toner.) After I etched it, I
found I had misaligned the top and bottom. It was just bad enough so when I
drilled my holes, it knocked the pad off of the other side.

For my second attempt, I decided to use a single sided board for
simplicity--it only required seven jumpers, so I thought it would be fine
for this project. I also decided to use the Press-N-Peel Blue stuff, instead
of the iron-on and soak off stuff. The PNP-Blue seems easier to use--I had
no troubles with voids, and my .010" traces looks very good.

While I used a tiny monokote iron, I'd bet that a full sized iron with a
flat bottom would be easier.

Cliff

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2002\03\10@011434 by Pic Dude

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Cliff, I didn't have any problems lining them up.  I printed both sides
on one page and folded it carefully, one over the other while holding
it up to a light.  That way I ensured that both sides were aligned.
Then I slipped the board in between.  Someone else suggested
to staple the 2 sides back-to-back like this and make an "envelope".

I'll add my PCB experiences as well.  I first tried what seemed to be
the best solution for one-offs or prototypes: the toner-transfer system.
While Nick Vey's page showed how he does this with regular glossy
paper, I used actual toner-transfer paper.  My results were decent,
though not great -- my board was small (approx 1.5" x 3.5") and
double-sided.  On the first attempt, I had only partial coverage after
holding the iron on for about 2.5 to 3 minutes.  So it all came off
and I tried again.  One side came out perfect, but the other had a
few problem traces.  These were touched up with with some
rub-on transfers and an etch-resist pen.  However, after etching,
one of the "good" toner-transfer lines had peeled off, and I lost a
trace.

My guess is that I need some practice.  My next step is to try the
photo-resistive process, cause I found out that I can get a UV light
setup for PCB making for only about $32.

Looking at commercial services too, even for one-offs.  Of the
few I have checked, custompcb.com has the best deal for what I
want -- small PCB w/o holes.  I don't care for soldermask, etc.  At
least for now.

Cheers,
-Neil.


{Original Message removed}

2002\03\10@012306 by Cliff Griffin

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That sounds like a great idea for aligning them, Neil. While I was at the
store, I bought a UV lamp, some boards and developer, but I wanted to try
the peel-off toner transfer paper first. I like it better than the other
stuff. I guess you can tell right away because the blue peels off and leaves
a clear sheet of plastic, and if it's not done just iron some more.

My last boards I paid to have done--and it would have been cheaper this
time, too...but I wanted to have a finished board by Monday, and that just
wouldn't happen with a shop.

Cliff


{Original Message removed}

2002\03\10@012744 by Pic Dude

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Meant to ask -- what is the "Press N Peel blue stuff" you
mentioned?



----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Griffin" <spam_OUTcliffTakeThisOuTspamGRIFFINLAB.COM>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]: success making a PCB


> That sounds like a great idea for aligning them, Neil. While I was at the
> store, I bought a UV lamp, some boards and developer, but I wanted to try
> the peel-off toner transfer paper first. I like it better than the other
> stuff. I guess you can tell right away because the blue peels off and
leaves
{Quote hidden}

made
> > tiny ones before, but this one is 3x4", and the largest I've etched
> myself.
> > My first attempt was not successful, using the iron-on Toner Transfer
> > System. First, one side wouldn't take the toner in a couple places. I
> tried
> > to iron down a patch over it, but that failed too. I managed to get a
> trace
> > with a marker, but found that white-out worked better. (Yes, I cleaned
the
> > board, so I don't know what was up with the toner.) After I etched it, I
> > found I had misaligned the top and bottom. It was just bad enough so
when
> I
> > drilled my holes, it knocked the pad off of the other side.
> >
> > For my second attempt, I decided to use a single sided board for
> > simplicity--it only required seven jumpers, so I thought it would be
fine
> > for this project. I also decided to use the Press-N-Peel Blue stuff,
> instead
> > of the iron-on and soak off stuff. The PNP-Blue seems easier to use--I
had
{Quote hidden}

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2002\03\10@013137 by Vit

picon face
<snip>
> My guess is that I need some practice.  My next step is to try the
> photo-resistive process, cause I found out that I can get a UV light
> setup for PCB making for only about $32.
>
> Looking at commercial services too, even for one-offs.  Of the
> few I have checked, custompcb.com has the best deal for what I
> want -- small PCB w/o holes.  I don't care for soldermask, etc.  At
> least for now.
>
> Cheers,
> -Neil.

Neil,

Why buy a UV light?  Datec makes excellent photoresist boards which require
just regular light.  I had some very good results with a 100-watt bulb hung
about 12 inches above the board, and the results were always great.  I only
ruined one double-sided board, and developing had nothing to do with it - I
simply over-etched one side.

Good luck!

Vitaliy

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2002\03\10@014423 by Pic Dude

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Someone else here suggested that, but the only boards I could find
locally were the MG boards, so I thought I'd just go with that.

Where do I find these boards?  The only ones I've found so far are
the MG Chemicals boards.

Thanks.



{Original Message removed}

2002\03\10@015510 by Vit

picon face
Neil,

I buy mine from a local distributor here in Phoenix, it is called Tritek
Electronics.  Datak also has a website,

http://www.philmore-datak.com/

I'm sure you'll find a distributor in your state.

Vitaliy


{Original Message removed}

2002\03\10@020126 by BENEDICIC SAMO

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Pres'n'peel is a special toner transfer paper for making PCB's. You can look
at specs and also buy it here: http://www.techniks.com/ .It works just fine.
I iron it for about 10 minutes (not 3 like they say). My experience is that
temperature of the iron is critical - if it's too hot, the result isn't
good, toner seems to 'melt'. Regards, Samo

{Original Message removed}

2002\03\10@020955 by Pic Dude

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Ahhh...cool.  This is sort of like the stuff I used, which I believe came
from JDR Electronics.


----- Original Message -----
From: "BENEDICIC SAMO" <@spam@samo.benedicicKILLspamspamHIT.SI>
To: <KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]: success making a PCB


> Pres'n'peel is a special toner transfer paper for making PCB's. You can
look
> at specs and also buy it here: http://www.techniks.com/ .It works just
fine.
> I iron it for about 10 minutes (not 3 like they say). My experience is
that
> temperature of the iron is critical - if it's too hot, the result isn't
> good, toner seems to 'melt'. Regards, Samo
>
> {Original Message removed}

2002\03\10@021411 by Pic Dude

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Wow, this stuff is nice.  Looking thru their instructions, I have the
exact desk-lamp they show, with a 100W bulb already in it.  It must
be a sign that I need to get some of this stuff.  :-)



{Original Message removed}

2002\03\10@030327 by Cliff Griffin

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It's like the Toner Transfer System, but it's clear plastic with a blue
coating that comes off with the toner. You don't have to soak it off--just
peel it off.

Cliff



{Original Message removed}

2002\03\10@153810 by Victor Faria

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OK,I also would like to share!!!
also pressnpeel blue
but I couldn't get good results with the iron so I had an idea!!!
I made a press
I used a 6'' c-clamp and I welded a piece of about 1/2'x3"x3" to the flat
stationary part of the clamp.
this gave me a small table to work on .
then I took a piece of 3/4"x4"'x6" aluminum and I drilled 2 3/8 hole across
it this is for 2 3/8 cartridge heaters which are controlled by one of those
surface mount thermostats.
I bolted the 3/4' plate to my small table on my c-clamp
then  I had a piece of junk steel around and I welded that to the bottom of
the clamp this is so the clamp can Stand up on it's own.
so now the clams is standing and the screw part is on top
the 3/4"plate is between the c-clamp now I took 2 pieces of 1/2"x4"5"
aluminum and 2 PCs of silicone rubber and one piece of insulating board
now here is the process
1 print on the pressnpeel
2 clean the board
3 line up the image on the board use small piece of tape to hold
4 preheat the press and plates
5sandwich the board and image between the 2 plates and the rubber
so you end up with rubber on both side of image.
6 place the insulating board on the top  aluminum plate
7 now clamp
wait about 10 min pull out the board let cool a bit and peel
8  for double sided.drill 2 of the pad as far to the outer edge as you can
opposite corners if possible.
now place the image on top of board and line up pads with holes you just
drilled.
now use 2 thumb tacks for aligning through the holes.
now tape down .
now back to the press
that is all
I have had good results with this not that I make many but !!!
the temp is about 300f
and the size the   aluminum is about.
I don't have the press in front of me .
regards
victor

{Original Message removed}

2002\03\10@155308 by Aaron W.

picon face
when i use the press and peel blue, i just use the tip of a hand iron, you
can see the areas that are done because you can see the circuit pattern
through the back of the press and peel blue sheets.

i would like to make double sided PCBs, is there any sugestion on how to
handle the plated through holes. has anyone used any of the gromets to make
plated through holes? i think if i take an etched and drilled pcb and wave
it through a solder pot, that might also do the trick of plated through
holes.
----- Original Message -----
From: Victor Faria <RemoveMEvictorfTakeThisOuTspamGIS.NET>
To: <spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]: success making a PCB


> OK,I also would like to share!!!
> also pressnpeel blue
> but I couldn't get good results with the iron so I had an idea!!!
> I made a press
> I used a 6'' c-clamp and I welded a piece of about 1/2'x3"x3" to the flat
> stationary part of the clamp.
> this gave me a small table to work on .
> then I took a piece of 3/4"x4"'x6" aluminum and I drilled 2 3/8 hole
across
> it this is for 2 3/8 cartridge heaters which are controlled by one of
those
> surface mount thermostats.
> I bolted the 3/4' plate to my small table on my c-clamp
> then  I had a piece of junk steel around and I welded that to the bottom
of
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2002\03\10@175919 by Dwayne Reid

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At 12:52 AM 3/10/02 -0600, Pic Dude wrote:
>Someone else here suggested that, but the only boards I could find
>locally were the MG boards, so I thought I'd just go with that.
>
>Where do I find these boards?  The only ones I've found so far are
>the MG Chemicals boards.

I've made the offer before and will do so again - any hobbyist in the
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada region who wants to laminate their own board is
welcome to call me and come in on a Saturday.  We use DuPont Riston 4315
laminate with a much modified Ibico laminator (supplied by Kepro, then
modified some more) and have all the equipment to clean, laminate, expose,
etch, clean and drill single and double sided boards.  No plated through
holes - we use Harwin track pins, Multicore Copperset PTH repair kit, or
just do top side solder to components and machine pin IC sockets.

dwayne


Dwayne Reid   <TakeThisOuTdwaynerEraseMEspamspam_OUTplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002)
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2002\03\11@083149 by Roman Black

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Aaron W. wrote:
>
> when i use the press and peel blue, i just use the tip of a hand iron, you
> can see the areas that are done because you can see the circuit pattern
> through the back of the press and peel blue sheets.
>
> i would like to make double sided PCBs, is there any sugestion on how to
> handle the plated through holes. has anyone used any of the gromets to make
> plated through holes? i think if i take an etched and drilled pcb and wave
> it through a solder pot, that might also do the trick of plated through
> holes.

Umm, do them like any 12 year old, drill
the board BEFORE etching, drill for parts
and the vias, then use the holes to align
your artwork or Dalo pen (you know you can
use almost any waterproof felt tip pen)
then after etching solder a piece of wire
(or leg cut-offs) as your through-hole vias.
Cheap, quick and darn reliable. :o)
-Roman

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