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'[EE]: stepper connections'
2000\12\28@080646 by Graham

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I have been stripping old steppers out of disk drives...old ones, straight
forward to find what is going on with 5/6 wires

recently I got started on some newer 3.5 inch types..

these have some *very* small head steppers, unmarked, that look good for
making a miniature desktop mobile platform...these motors have only 4
connections, the PCB connector is marked A, bar A, B, bar B

a quick 2 minute test shows: A+_A gives a step one way, B+_B a step the
other, then reversing polarity does the opposite in each case, so looks like
these need alternate step+alternate polarity......

before I go to greater lengths am I correct or wrong ???

if wrong, anyone know what the correct control procedure is
if right, anyone written up, or found on the web, the various stepping
sequencies to save me re-doing it.

A pointer/link to a full spec document on 4 wire (polarity reversal ?)
steppers of this nature would be perfect....they are driven directly from a
Sony controller so looks like perhaps very low current ?.....

Graham




-Need *high IP3* AND good N/F ?? try this- http://www.rfham.com

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2000\12\28@092835 by Roman Black

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It's a standard 4-wire bipolar stepper.
You can drive it easily with a dual h-bridge
like the L293 from Allegro.
Search the net for "jones on steppers"
Also one of my favorite appnotes is from
Allegro and is better written and more accessible
than jones, it is; STP 97-5A technical paper,
and the first few pages contain the best
description on stepping motors and the different
driver types I have ever read.
:o)
-Roman


Graham wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\12\28@104217 by Lawrence Lile

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Jones on Stepping Motors:

http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/

is one of the best basic references on steppers anywhere on the web. Plenty
of diagrams like you asked for.

--Lawrence

{Original Message removed}


'[EE]: stepper connections'
2001\01\12@041842 by Sten Dahlgren
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Roman Black wrote:
>
> It's a standard 4-wire bipolar stepper.
> You can drive it easily with a dual h-bridge
> like the L293 from Allegro.
> Search the net for "jones on steppers"
> Also one of my favorite appnotes is from
> Allegro and is better written and more accessible
> than jones, it is; STP 97-5A technical paper,
> and the first few pages contain the best
> description on stepping motors and the different
> driver types I have ever read.
> :o)
> -Roman

Even better/more/additional info is available here:

http://www.njr.co.jp/_efr005.htm

This was formerly Ericsson's chips but was sold to New Japan Radio Co

regards
/Sten
{Quote hidden}

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2001\01\12@074855 by Roman Black

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Sten Dahlgren wrote:
{Quote hidden}

YES!! THANK YOU Sten!! I had their "microstepping"
app notes months ago, the first time I learned about
excitation energy. I lost the web page where I got
the appnote from. Their stepper appnotes are the
VERY BEST re theory but from a useful practical
side.

I owe you one!
-Roman

PS. Their site nav sux and bookmarking it
doesn't work. The stepper appnotes are:
http://www.njr.co.jp/_efr005.htm
(then go ICs, motor control ICs, then page bottom)

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2001\01\12@105415 by jamesnewton

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Just go to
http://www.njr.co.jp/e05/ee.htm
then you can book mark it.

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{Original Message removed}

2001\01\12@110042 by Sten Dahlgren

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Roman Black wrote:
{Quote hidden}

It was previously on ericsson's site but has now been removed.
I saved the pdf's earlier in case japan radio was going to dump this,
but
they have changed the logo in the document's maybe i could dig those
pdf's
up
if you would prefer ericsson's logo :-)


> I owe you one!

I'll save this mail then :-)

{Quote hidden}

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2001\01\12@111117 by jamesnewton

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Roman, are you going to release the details of your "test rig to measure
both holding torque   and shaft angle with high accuracy" ?

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2001\01\12@112742 by David VanHorn

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At 07:53 AM 1/12/01 -0800, James Newton wrote:
>Just go to
>http://www.njr.co.jp/e05/ee.htm
>then you can book mark it.

These chips (3717 etc) were originally Rifa chips, sold to ericsson, and
Unitrode It appears that they are going one more generation now.

Beware. There is a max chop frequency, and if you go beyond that, the chips
will crater when the H bridge blows through.  Ericsson didn't know anything
about this, probably because they didn't design it. The NJR datasheet
simply says that they don't reccomend above 40kHz because "current
regulation can be affected".

I'd call blowing a smoking crater in the chip "affecting" things...
This happens even at idle. In fact, I had it happen on a board while the
Ericsson rep was visiting, over this very problem. After much talking, and
sending them waveforms etc, in the end, they said they had "no idea" why
the chips were failing.

The Cherry CS3717 is a replacement that cherry designed, and they seem to
know a lot more about the chip as a result.

Allegro has one too, though the datasheet is a bit skimpy, they do seem to
have addressed this issue:
http://www.allegromicro.com/datafile/2917.pdf

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2001\01\12@114830 by Sten Dahlgren

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David VanHorn wrote:
>
> At 07:53 AM 1/12/01 -0800, James Newton wrote:
> >Just go to
> >http://www.njr.co.jp/e05/ee.htm
> >then you can book mark it.
>
> These chips (3717 etc) were originally Rifa chips, sold to ericsson, and
> Unitrode It appears that they are going one more generation now.

I think rifa originally made these for husqvarna sewing machines a long
time ago.
By the way husqvarna also made motorcycles that was later sold to
cagiva. Some of those people working at husqvarna later started Husaberg
making motorcycles.

enough [OT]: [EE]:  :-)

{Quote hidden}

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2001\01\12@121105 by David VanHorn

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>
>I think rifa originally made these for husqvarna sewing machines a long
>time ago.
>By the way husqvarna also made motorcycles that was later sold to
>cagiva. Some of those people working at husqvarna later started Husaberg
>making motorcycles.

Point being, the inheritors have less knowlege of what's going on in the chip.
Ericcson and Unitrode were also unable to tell me anything about the
internal protection diodes. At one point, they were trying to tell me that
they could handle any size motor...

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2001\01\12@125002 by Sten Dahlgren

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David VanHorn wrote:
>
> >
> >I think rifa originally made these for husqvarna sewing machines a long
> >time ago.
> >By the way husqvarna also made motorcycles that was later sold to
> >cagiva. Some of those people working at husqvarna later started Husaberg
> >making motorcycles.
>
> Point being, the inheritors have less knowlege of what's going on in the chip.
> Ericcson and Unitrode were also unable to tell me anything about the
> internal protection diodes. At one point, they were trying to tell me that
> they could handle any size motor...

Tells you even more i think, they don't intend to develop anything
further.

>
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2001\01\12@125916 by Roman Black

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David VanHorn wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Thanks for the great info David. I can get TEA3717
(I think Allegro but haven't seen the chips)
reasonably cheap, and have considered using them for
some small size 17 steppers at about 350mA.

Being the expert with these, do you feel they're
ok for 350mA from a 12-16v source for very
constant use? And will they need heatsinking,
ie what temp rise to expect? :o)
-Roman

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2001\01\12@163122 by David VanHorn

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>
>Being the expert with these, do you feel they're
>ok for 350mA from a 12-16v source for very
>constant use? And will they need heatsinking,
>ie what temp rise to expect? :o)
>-Roman

We used them at 1A from 24V, for as much as 10S per shot, with just PCB
ground planes (small) to cool them. I've tested them continuously at that
rating. The motor melted itself out of the ABS casing, but the drivers were
fine.

I'd have to sit down with the data sheets to get more specific, but I think
you'll be ok.

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2001\01\13@200952 by goflo

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Pretty please?

Jack

James Newton wrote:
>
> Roman, are you going to release the details of your "test rig to measure
> both holding torque   and shaft angle with high accuracy" ?

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2001\01\14@034643 by Roman Black

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John Gardner wrote:
>
> Pretty please?
>
> Jack
>
> James Newton wrote:
> >
> > Roman, are you going to release the details of your "test rig to measure
> > both holding torque   and shaft angle with high accuracy" ?

Absoltutely, I have put the first part up already,
basic torque testing, but the microstep testing
article is not finished yet, will take me a few days.
-Roman

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