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'[EE]: pdf tool without pop-ups?'
2009\03\28@051602 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
I am looking for a pdf-creation tool, free would be nice, that can be
configured to work without any pop-ups. (I know how to run word from a
command line, so it would enable me to create pdfs from a batch file.)
Any suggestions?

(I think this qualifies as Everyrthing Engineering?)

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\28@053235 by cdb

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face


:: am looking for a pdf-creation tool, free would be nice, that can be
:: configured to work without any pop-ups

Download OpenOffice, not only do you then have a free Office type
suite but it auto pdefficates as well!

OR

Download Ghost Script.

Colin
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2009\03\28@053457 by John Chung

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Use latex if possible. Generates all sort of file formats.

John

--- On Sat, 3/28/09, Wouter van Ooijen <.....wouterKILLspamspam@spam@voti.nl> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2009\03\28@054050 by cdb

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face


:: Use latex if possible. Generates all sort of file formats.

I was going to mention TeX, but then wasn't too sure.

Colin
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2009\03\28@070028 by Wouter van Ooijen
face picon face
> Download OpenOffice, not only do you then have a free Office type
> suite but it auto pdefficates as well!

But I have not found a reliable way to do an OpenOffice print command
from the command line. The problem is that you can issue a command-line
print command, but that command returns before the print command is
handled completely. So a next print command-line print command can
cancel a previous one.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\28@070119 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
John Chung wrote:
> Use latex if possible. Generates all sort of file formats.

That does not answer my question, unless you can refer me to a
command-line word-to-latex converter?

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\28@071044 by cdb

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face


:: But I have not found a reliable way to do an OpenOffice print
:: command
:: from the command line.

Ah, didn't realise the command line was a must have.

I think Ghost Script can run form the command line (I only use it with
Scribus so haven't delved into it too much)

Perhaps if you installed a post script printer driver, you could print
directly to that, as PDF's are just a fancy form of post script are
they not?

Colin
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cdb, colinspamspam_OUTbtech-online.co.uk on 28/03/2009

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2009\03\28@080908 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Wouter van Ooijen <@spam@wouterKILLspamspamvoti.nl> wrote:

> But I have not found a reliable way to do an OpenOffice print command
> from the command line. The problem is that you can issue a command-line
> print command, but that command returns before the print command is
> handled completely. So a next print command-line print command can
> cancel a previous one.
>

On Windows you can try AutoIT to automate GUI based tasks. Like for example
you start up the OpenOffice with the parameters you like, then the exporting
to PDF could be done by the AutoIT script. Alternatively you may can send
keyboard events to the opened window to do the same (like
Alt+F,Down,Down,Enter  etc...).

Tamas
--
http://www.mcuhobby.com

2009\03\28@094743 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
I agree. Autoit is an amazing solution to automating any task. And free.

--Bob

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 5:09 AM, Tamas Rudnai <KILLspamtamas.rudnaiKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>

2009\03\28@100753 by John Chung

picon face

Try this. Found it through google.
http://kebrt.webz.cz/programs/word-to-latex/

John

--- On Sat, 3/28/09, Wouter van Ooijen <spamBeGonewouterspamBeGonespamvoti.nl> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2009\03\28@110320 by peter green

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Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> I am looking for a pdf-creation tool, free would be nice, that can be
> configured to work without any pop-ups. (I know how to run word from a
> command line, so it would enable me to create pdfs from a batch file.)
> Any suggestions?
pdfcreator can do it.

after installing launch start-programs-pdfcreator-pdfcreator. You should
get a window titled "pdf print monitor". Then go to printer-options and
another dialog will pop up. One of the sets of options in this dialog is
titled "autosave", enable it and configure it to save the files in a way
that suits you.

2009\03\28@145436 by Vanzo Stefano

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face
Wouter van Ooijen ha scritto:
> I am looking for a pdf-creation tool, free would be nice, that can be
> configured to work without any pop-ups. (I know how to run word from a
> command line, so it would enable me to create pdfs from a batch file.)
> Any suggestions?

If you are using Windows, try http://www.cutepdf.com/  there is a
fgreeware edition

Use it in any program and just print your PDF


regards

Stefano

2009\03\28@165230 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Mar 28, 2009, at 7:07 AM, John Chung wrote:

> Try this. Found it through google.
> http://kebrt.webz.cz/programs/word-to-latex/

If you want to go from Word documents to PDF files (using only the  
command line), I think using LaTeX as an intermediate step is a  
bit ... extreme.  (In your initial message, it wasn't clear (to me,  
anyway) that starting with MSWord was a requirement, or whether you  
just wanted SOME word processing scheme that would end up at a PDF via  
the command line..)

Did you see this:
   http://www.togaware.com/linux/survivor/Convert_MS_Word.html

BillW

2009\03\28@172659 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
Vanzo Stefano wrote:
> Wouter van Ooijen ha scritto:
>> I am looking for a pdf-creation tool, free would be nice, that can be
>> configured to work without any pop-ups. (I know how to run word from a
>> command line, so it would enable me to create pdfs from a batch file.)
>> Any suggestions?
>
> If you are using Windows, try http://www.cutepdf.com/  there is a
> fgreeware edition
>
> Use it in any program and just print your PDF

Yes, I have used it, but it pops up a window that asks me where to save
the .pdf file. Exactly what I do *not* want.


--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\28@172849 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> If you want to go from Word documents to PDF files (using only the  
> command line), I think using LaTeX as an intermediate step is a  
> bit ... extreme.  (In your initial message, it wasn't clear (to me,  
> anyway) that starting with MSWord was a requirement, or whether you  
> just wanted SOME word processing scheme that would end up at a PDF via  
> the command line..)

Re-reading my original post I see that this was not too clear. Yes, I
prefer to start with an msword file.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\28@173128 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Did you see this:
>     http://www.togaware.com/linux/survivor/Convert_MS_Word.html

I dunno, maybe I did. The devil is in this line: "and there is an issue
in that the script will return before OpenOffice.org has finished its work."

This makes it unfit for unattended use.


--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\28@210941 by Tony Smith

flavicon
face
> > If you want to go from Word documents to PDF files (using only the
> > command line), I think using LaTeX as an intermediate step is a
> > bit ... extreme.  (In your initial message, it wasn't clear (to me,
> > anyway) that starting with MSWord was a requirement, or whether you
> > just wanted SOME word processing scheme that would end up at a PDF via
> > the command line..)
>
> Re-reading my original post I see that this was not too clear. Yes, I
> prefer to start with an msword file.


Basically your doing something like generating Word docs from an ordering
system, but want them as .PDF to email out to customers.

The best option is to use Word 2007, saving to PDF is available as an add-in
from the Microsoft website.  You then do something like:

Doc.ExportAsFixedFormat OutputFileName:="Order.pdf", _
                                 ExportFormat:=wdExportFormatPDF, _
                                 BitmapMissingFonts:=True, _
                                 UseISO19005_1:=True, _
                                 OpenAfterExport:=False

See <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb256835.aspx> for the syntax.
Not that you care, but the syntax is different in each MS app, you can't
just paste that chunk into Excel and have it work.  Oh, and may crash if the
add-in is missing, so you need to check if the key
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Installer\Components\12B306B24E250DD428FC7016B6FB4BD8
exists.

Next I'd find some 'acts like a printer' software that you can configure to
always write to the same place & file, eg the temp dir.  I'm not sure those
actually exist, that is, that don't ask for confirmation first.

After that I'd consider saving the file as a web page, and finding a
converter that is scriptable (eg command line).  Word get a bit flak for the
'extra crap' that it adds to its HTML, but it'll get ignored.  If you really
care, there is a 'HTML Filtered' option that doesn't export the 'extra
crap'.

I know Adobe Distiller can do this, but that's a bit $$$.  You might be able
to find an old licence cheap.  Distiller appears as a component, so you need
to add a reference to it.  In that case you save the .DOC, and it's pretty
much a one-liner after that.

Distiller.FileToPDF "Order.doc", "Order.pdf", "Print"

The Distiller object has various properties you can set for quality,
security and so on.  I don't have any real code here, so I can't tell you
how to configure it in VBA.  I used Distiller for one job where I had to
convert hundreds of documents weekly (Word, web, XL, pictures etc) to PDF,
it was very reliable.

Tony



2009\03\28@212549 by Dr Skip

picon face
This will probably do it for you:

http://software.techrepublic.com.com/abstract.aspx?docid=920437

2009\03\28@224027 by Tony Smith

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face
> > Re-reading my original post I see that this was not too clear. Yes, I
> > prefer to start with an msword file.
>
>
> Next I'd find some 'acts like a printer' software that you can configure
to
> always write to the same place & file, eg the temp dir.  I'm not sure
those
> actually exist, that is, that don't ask for confirmation first.


Apparently Primo PDF - http://www.primopdf.com - will act as a printer, and can be
configured to print without any confirmation dialogs.  The .PDF will have
the same name as the .DOC.

Tony

2009\03\28@225943 by Michael Algernon

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face
Too bad you don't have a Mac and OS X.
Creating pdfs is trivial.
MA




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All ideas, text, drawings and audio , that are originated by WFT  
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of the date of this communication .

2009\03\29@025432 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Basically your doing something like generating Word docs from an ordering
> system, but want them as .PDF to email out to customers.

Close. Actually I want to write documentation in word, save it to cvs,
and have a big python script re-create my website and upload everything
that has changed since the previous upload.

> Next I'd find some 'acts like a printer' software that you can configure to
> always write to the same place & file, eg the temp dir.  I'm not sure those
> actually exist, that is, that don't ask for confirmation first.

The converter part is also offered by various non-ms printer drivers,
this (not asking for confirmation) is the stumbling block so far.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\29@025930 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Apparently Primo PDF - http://www.primopdf.com - will act as a printer, and can be
> configured to print without any confirmation dialogs.  The .PDF will have
> the same name as the .DOC.

I tried that one, but for me it pops up a window - I did not find a way
to prevent that.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\29@030246 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
Dr Skip wrote:
> This will probably do it for you:
>
> http://software.techrepublic.com.com/abstract.aspx?docid=920437

Probably, but it seems to be Mac software. Sorry, I am PC-bound.

It also is not free, but that is a lesser problem.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\29@053224 by KPL

picon face
>
> I dunno, maybe I did. The devil is in this line: "and there is an issue
> in that the script will return before OpenOffice.org has finished its work."
>
> This makes it unfit for unattended use.
>

If you writing your own script, it's not difficult to check if output
file is finished or not, before starting next job.
Or even just add some fixed delay if you have enough time.

--
KPL

2009\03\29@100457 by olin piclist

face picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> Close. Actually I want to write documentation in word, save it to cvs,
> and have a big python script re-create my website and upload
> everything that has changed since the previous upload.

I know this is redefining the problem, but why not write the original in
HTML instead of Word?  That makes it immediately easy to view live.  If
someone wants to print it seperately they can still do that.  Personally I
think that HTML documents are better than PDF for everything except printing
on paper.  The automatic reflow and adjusting to the window size of HTML
makes is nicer for reading on the screen.  It doesn't print as nicely as
PDF, but usually still good enough for most purposes.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\03\29@105322 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I know this is redefining the problem, but why not write the original in
> HTML instead of Word?  That makes it immediately easy to view live.  If
> someone wants to print it seperately they can still do that.  Personally I
> think that HTML documents are better than PDF for everything except printing
> on paper.  The automatic reflow and adjusting to the window size of HTML
> makes is nicer for reading on the screen.  It doesn't print as nicely as
> PDF, but usually still good enough for most purposes.

HTML has a number of disadvantages, what I can think of right now:
- it does not print well (page separation is often in the middle of a
text line) - IMO this is a killer
- links are a poor substitute for a TOC (and of course you won't get
page numbers)
- maybe there is a way, but I don't yet know how to put scaleable
(vector) images in a webpage
- various viewers might give various results

Additionally, in my experience I write better documents when I am
writing for paper than for screen, especially for longer documents. And
I love the outline view of word. (No, I don't like everything about
word, and I hate my new word for Vista - there isn't even an about tab
to tell you which version this is!)

PS I found a way to do what I want, using PDFCreator. The (small)
disadvantage is that I must select a fixed filename and location (I
choose c:\temp\pdf.pdf), I would prefer a .pdf with the same name as the
original file. The documentation seems to hint that that is possible,
but I could not get it to work. But of course the Python script can take
care of this small problem.

A question for non-europeans: on which paper format do you print? In my
world there is only A4 (and sometimes A3). If you get a pdf formatted
for A4, do you start screaming and shouting?

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\29@111021 by Larry Bradley

flavicon
face
Wouter, take a look at Foxit PDF Writer - there is a trial version that puts
a watermark on the page - and the real version is cheap. I like it better
than the Adobe product.

Larry


Original Message:
>
> I know this is redefining the problem, but why not write the original in
> HTML instead of Word? That makes it immediately easy to view live. If
> someone wants to print it seperately they can still do that. Personally I
> think that HTML documents are better than PDF for everything except printing
> on paper. The automatic reflow and adjusting to the window size of HTML
> makes is nicer for reading on the screen. It doesn't print as nicely as
> PDF, but usually still good enough for most purposes.

HTML has a number of disadvantages, what I can think of right now:
- it does not print well (page separation is often in the middle of a
text line) - IMO this is a killer
- links are a poor substitute for a TOC (and of course you won't get
page numbers)
- maybe there is a way, but I don't yet know how to put scaleable
(vector) images in a webpage
- various viewers might give various results

Additionally, in my experience I write better documents when I am
writing for paper than for screen, especially for longer documents. And
I love the outline view of word. (No, I don't like everything about
word, and I hate my new word for Vista - there isn't even an about tab
to tell you which version this is!)

PS I found a way to do what I want, using PDFCreator. The (small)
disadvantage is that I must select a fixed filename and location (I
choose c:\temp\pdf.pdf), I would prefer a .pdf with the same name as the
original file. The documentation seems to hint that that is possible,
but I could not get it to work. But of course the Python script can take
care of this small problem.

A question for non-europeans: on which paper format do you print? In my
world there is only A4 (and sometimes A3). If you get a pdf formatted
for A4, do you start screaming and shouting?

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\29@122153 by Joseph Bento

face
flavicon
face

On Mar 29, 2009, at 8:53 AM, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
>
>
> A question for non-europeans: on which paper format do you print? In  
> my
> world there is only A4 (and sometimes A3). If you get a pdf formatted
> for A4, do you start screaming and shouting?
>

"Letter" size, 8.5" x 11" is the norm here.  "Legal" is 8.5" x 14",  
and "B" is 11" x 17".  "Letter" is by far the most common, and  
conversion from A4 to letter size is generally handled automatically.

I only use "legal" size paper in the form of the yellow office  
tablets, and "B" size might be used when printing a large schematic.  
We had the capability for this size paper at work, but I'm not aware  
of many home printers that handle paper this large.

Interestingly, all our American printers and copiers are equipped to  
handle A4 paper, though it is generally unavailable here unless  
special ordered from an office supply.

Joe


2009\03\29@122747 by olin piclist

face picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> HTML has a number of disadvantages, what I can think of right now:
> - it does not print well (page separation is often in the middle of a
> text line) - IMO this is a killer

I have noticed that too.  You'd think with all the browser competition a
little effort would have gone to reasonable printing format.  I've even seen
images get broken up accross page boundaries.

Note that this is not inherent to HTML, but a function of the browser.  It
doesn't need to be this way, but is for some reason.

> A question for non-europeans: on which paper format do you print? In
> my
> world there is only A4 (and sometimes A3). If you get a pdf formatted
> for A4, do you start screaming and shouting?

I can never remember what all these Axxx sizes are.  Here in the US normal
paper is 8 1/2 x 11 inches.  That is what 99.9% of ordinary people will have
their printers loaded with.  If your document doesn't print well on that
size, people will get pissed off.  There is also "legal" size used by
lawyers and the like.  I think it's the same width but taller.  Unless
you're catering to lawyers or maybe legislators, you want to forget about
that size.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\03\29@125351 by Joseph Bento

face
flavicon
face

On Mar 29, 2009, at 10:28 AM, Olin Lathrop wrote:
>
> I can never remember what all these Axxx sizes are.  Here in the US  
> normal
> paper is 8 1/2 x 11 inches.  That is what 99.9% of ordinary people  
> will have
> their printers loaded with.  If your document doesn't print well on  
> that
> size, people will get pissed off.  There is also "legal" size used by
> lawyers and the like.  I think it's the same width but taller.  Unless
> you're catering to lawyers or maybe legislators, you want to forget  
> about
> that size.
>

This is one of those cases where we Americans differ from the rest of  
the world.  90% of the world (excluding the USA, Canada, and to some  
extent, Mexico) use ISO defined paper sizes.  8.5 x 11, 8.4 x 14, etc  
do not fall within these standards.  It would seem as globalization  
becomes ever more common, that we (USA) would adopt the standards used  
throughout the rest of the world.  Why are we always the holdout?

Joe

2009\03\29@142913 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Joseph Bento <josephEraseMEspam.....kirtland.com> wrote:

> This is one of those cases where we Americans differ from the rest of
> the world.  90% of the world (excluding the USA, Canada, and to some
> extent, Mexico) use ISO defined paper sizes.  8.5 x 11, 8.4 x 14, etc
> do not fall within these standards.  It would seem as globalization
> becomes ever more common, that we (USA) would adopt the standards used
> throughout the rest of the world.  Why are we always the holdout?
>

At least you guys are driving on the _right_ side of the road ;-)

BTW: I thought Canada uses metrics? Or it is not for everything?

Tamas
--
http://www.mcuhobby.com

2009\03\29@150234 by John Day

flavicon
face
At 02:29 PM 3/29/2009, you wrote:
>On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Joseph Bento <EraseMEjosephspamkirtland.com> wrote:
>
> > This is one of those cases where we Americans differ from the rest of
> > the world.  90% of the world (excluding the USA, Canada, and to some
> > extent, Mexico) use ISO defined paper sizes.  8.5 x 11, 8.4 x 14, etc
> > do not fall within these standards.  It would seem as globalization
> > becomes ever more common, that we (USA) would adopt the standards used
> > throughout the rest of the world.  Why are we always the holdout?
> >
>
>At least you guys are driving on the _right_ side of the road ;-)
>
>BTW: I thought Canada uses metrics? Or it is not for everything?

Well, both Canada and the US are metric countries. But the US seems
to lack the bravery to change and Canada is so overwhelmed by the
huge elephant to our south that we just go along with most of what
they do. So we drive in km/h over distances in km, but we buy paint
in 3.85l gallons. Canada is a total inconsistent mish-mash of metric
and US (I won't even say imperial) measurements. I grew up on the
Imperial system in Australia then happily made the conversion to
metric. Got really comfortable with it in Europe and now have to deal
with a dogs breakfast.

John
(Born and raised in Australia, lived in UK, Europe and now Canada)


>Tamas
>--
>http://www.mcuhobby.com
>

2009\03\29@150930 by olin piclist

face picon face
Joseph Bento wrote:
> This is one of those cases where we Americans differ from the rest of
> the world.  90% of the world (excluding the USA, Canada, and to some
> extent, Mexico) use ISO defined paper sizes.  8.5 x 11, 8.4 x 14, etc
> do not fall within these standards.  It would seem as globalization
> becomes ever more common, that we (USA) would adopt the standards used
> throughout the rest of the world.  Why are we always the holdout?

Because we've been doing it that way for a long time, it works fine, and
changing your setup and what you're used to has its cost.  8 1/2 x 11 paper
has been the overwhelming standard here for such a long time that is should
be one of the standard paper sizes.  Are you really sure it's not?


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\03\29@154705 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Because we've been doing it that way for a long time, it works fine, and
> changing your setup and what you're used to has its cost.  8 1/2 x 11 paper
> has been the overwhelming standard here for such a long time that is should
> be one of the standard paper sizes.  Are you really sure it's not?

"one of the standard (paper sizes)" I could agree with, but seen from a
distance the A-series makes much more sense. Is there a standard that
folds in half to make the 8.5x11? And when you fold 8.5x11 in half, is
there a standard for that?

But looking at the world close-up there is a practical problem. When I
put .pdf'ws on my website (I think pdf's are the only reasonably way to
provide documents of reasonable length), should it be for A4, 8.5x11, or
maybe both? I prefer one format, and being in the A4 world I prefer that
format. 8.5x11-only would waste a lot of paper with the A4-users, but
probably not make them mad. 8.5x11 users, what happens when you print an
A4-formatted document? One answer was "it scales automatically". If it
does, I suppose there is some waste of paper on the long edges?

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2009\03\29@162905 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>should it be for A4, 8.5x11, or maybe both? I prefer one format,

You should certainly arrange your borders so the PDF will print on either of
those without any worry. Look at pretty well any PDF datasheet and you will
find that while a US originated one will ask for Letter paper, it will print
quite satisfactorily on A4. Equally an Asian originated datasheet may expect
A4, but print fine on Letter.

It really does come down to setting the margins to suit in the original
document.

And I echo your sentiments on HTML. One of my pet hates is the HTML based
help files that have invaded Windows programs these days.

2009\03\29@192803 by olin piclist

face picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> 8.5x11 users, what happens when you print an
> A4-formatted document?

I don't know.  It depends on whatever size A4 is.

> One answer was "it scales automatically". If it
> does, I suppose there is some waste of paper on the long edges?

The standard Adobe PDF reader has options for printing maximized and
centered, so as long as the aspect ratio matches and the overall size isn't
too far off, it should be fine.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2009\03\29@204219 by cdb

flavicon
face


:: I don't know.  It depends on whatever size A4 is.

According to Open Office and my printer manual and information on the
internet, plus measuring the a sheet in front of me - 210mm wide x 297
mm high.

Just divide that by 25.4 to return to inches approximately.
More to the point - I have some equipment manuals in the form of a
massive binder from the US  which not only insists on having 3 rings,
they aren't in the right place for non US'ers - do you know how
difficult it is to punch holes on A4 paper to fit in a US binder with
a non US paper hole puncherator?

Colin
--
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Web presence: http://www.btech-online.co.uk  

Hosted by:  http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=7988359







2009\03\29@234828 by Tony Smith

flavicon
face
> And I echo your sentiments on HTML. One of my pet hates is the HTML based
> help files that have invaded Windows programs these days.


You meant browser based or compiled (.CHM)?

I sort-of like .CHM, I can write the manual in Word, and generate a .CHM
from it.

The headings are used to create the various sections of the CHM, and you
reference those from your application to open the .CHM at the right section.
It won't work if you didn't understand what the 'outline view' Wouter
mentioned earlier is.

Tony

2009\03\30@043553 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> And I echo your sentiments on HTML. One of my pet hates is the HTML
>> based help files that have invaded Windows programs these days.
>
>You meant browser based or compiled (.CHM)?

Umm, both really. CHM has as bad a printing problem as HTML.

>I sort-of like .CHM, I can write the manual in Word, and generate
>a .CHM from it.
>
>The headings are used to create the various sections of the CHM, and
>you reference those from your application to open the .CHM at the
>right section. It won't work if you didn't understand what the
>'outline view' Wouter mentioned earlier is.

But do I need to understand it, as a user, rather than a writer?

2009\03\30@043934 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Tony Smith <RemoveMEajsmithspam_OUTspamKILLspambeagle.com.au> wrote:
>> And I echo your sentiments on HTML. One of my pet hates is the HTML based
>> help files that have invaded Windows programs these days.
>
>
> You meant browser based or compiled (.CHM)?
>
> I sort-of like .CHM, I can write the manual in Word, and generate a .CHM
> from it.

I like CHM file as well. Much easier than PDF or 1000s of HTML files.
And you can access them under Linux without a problem.

Xiaofan

2009\03\30@044243 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> And I echo your sentiments on HTML. One of my pet hates is the HTML
>> based help files that have invaded Windows programs these days.
>
>You meant browser based or compiled (.CHM)?

Umm, both really. CHM has as bad a printing problem as HTML.

>I sort-of like .CHM, I can write the manual in Word, and generate
>a .CHM from it.
>
>The headings are used to create the various sections of the CHM, and
>you reference those from your application to open the .CHM at the
>right section. It won't work if you didn't understand what the
>'outline view' Wouter mentioned earlier is.

But do I need to understand it, as a user, rather than a writer?

2009\03\30@044434 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Alan B. Pearce
<RemoveMEAlan.B.PearceTakeThisOuTspamspamstfc.ac.uk> wrote:
>>> And I echo your sentiments on HTML. One of my pet hates is the HTML
>>> based help files that have invaded Windows programs these days.
>>
>>You meant browser based or compiled (.CHM)?
>
> Umm, both really. CHM has as bad a printing problem as HTML.
>

I see. But the old hlp file is also not friendly to printing. So you
would like to have a pdf version along with the HTML version.
This does not seem to be popular in the Windows only world.

Xiaofan

2009\03\30@053043 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Olin Lathrop <EraseMEolin_piclistspamspamspamBeGoneembedinc.com>wrote:

> I don't know.  It depends on whatever size A4 is.
>

I think this is a good explanation of paper sizes with comparison with the
US standards (ISO vs ANSI):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size

For me ISO A sizes makes perfect sense (as a European) - just have to fold
the A0 size to get A1, have to fold A1 to get A2 etc... A0 and A1 are widely
used by engineers for the drawings, A4 is the standard letter size, A5 and
A6 are also used widely for leaflets etc. However, getting confused when
talking about B and C types - I think B is used in news papers and
magazines, while C is for envelopes and perhaps photos, but not quite so
sure.

Tamas
--
http://www.mcuhobby.com

2009\03\30@053548 by Tony Smith

flavicon
face
> >> And I echo your sentiments on HTML. One of my pet hates is the HTML
> >> based help files that have invaded Windows programs these days.
> >
> >You meant browser based or compiled (.CHM)?
>
> Umm, both really. CHM has as bad a printing problem as HTML.
>
> >I sort-of like .CHM, I can write the manual in Word, and generate
> >a .CHM from it.
> >
> >The headings are used to create the various sections of the CHM, and
> >you reference those from your application to open the .CHM at the
> >right section. It won't work if you didn't understand what the
> >'outline view' Wouter mentioned earlier is.
>
> But do I need to understand it, as a user, rather than a writer?


I can't recall ever printing a .CHM, but then again I'm not a big fan of
printers.

Outline view is really handy, it displays the document as a hierarchy,
different heading are assigned a level number from 1-9 (same as HTML).  You
can control the depth shown (Word < 2007 did it better with the 123456789
control) to hide the body text, view major headings only, or how many levels
of sub-heading you want to see.  It works the same as folder view in
explorer (or table of contents).

The best bit is you can reorganise your document by dragging the headings
about.  If you have a large book, you can set it so just the chapter heading
are showing, then you can grab chapter 29, and drag it up before chapter 15.
Everything in chapter 29 will move with it, it much faster than cut-n-paste.
Chapter 30 stays where it is.  (With autonumber the chapter # will update
automagically).  

You can promote and demote as well.  Say chapter 29 has a large chunk (with
a subheading) that's worthy of being a chapter on its own.  You select the
chapter, and either hit - (+?) or drag it to the left, so a level 2 heading
becomes a level 1 (ie a chapter), and any sub-headings it may have go up as
well.  Their formatting also changes based on the styles set.

If you demote chapter 29, it will then become a sub-section of chapter 28.
Promoting reverses that.

Scriptwriters love it, they can write the shell of their script, and then
'fill in the bits' later.

Careful when printing - it'll print -just- the outline, not the whole
document.

Tony

2009\03\30@054748 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>So you would like to have a pdf version along with the HTML version.
>This does not seem to be popular in the Windows only world.

Well, a PDF can be hyperlinked as well as any other file format. Also with a
PDF, you can have all the information in one file, making it easily
searchable - a bugbear I am having at the moment with the help file for
Orcad PCB Editor, which is done with HTML style pages, and you cannot just
enter a search term in a the search box, as it only searches the currently
open page!!!!

2009\03\30@081107 by Lee Jones

flavicon
face
> "one of the standard (paper sizes)" I could agree with, but seen
> from a distance the A-series makes much more sense.

I agree.  But what does making sense have to do with business
choices based on "we've always done it that way"? :-)

> Is there a standard that folds in half to make the 8.5x11?

Sure, 11"x17" (called tabloid, roughly equivalent to B). **

> And when you fold 8.5x11 in half, is there a standard for that?

Sure, 8.5"x5.5".  There is no quick, easy reference like ISO An
paper designations.

> But looking at the world close-up there is a practical problem.
> When I put .pdf'ws on my website (I think pdf's are the only
> reasonably way to provide documents of reasonable length), should
> it be for A4, 8.5x11, or maybe both? I prefer one format

A4 is narrower and taller than 8.5"x11".  You could format for
the width of A4 and the height of 8.5"x11".  Your documents would
have wider white side borders when printed on 8.5"x11" and wider
top & bottom borders when printed on A4.  But it would readable
on both paper sizes.

Then you can automatically annoy people in both hemispheres! :-)

                                               Lee Jones

** Metric countries measure paper thickness in grams per square
  meter (GSM).  That's consistent.  It's great.

  To make things more convoluted...  In the US, paper thickness
  is measured in pounds for 500-sheets of a standard sheet.  That
  standard sheet size _varies_ depending on the final size of paper.
  Common 8.5"x11" paper is "20-pound".  Stiff cover paper stock may
  be 67-pound but it's not 3.35 times (i.e. 67/20) the thickness
  of 8.5"x11" paper.  Now, isn't that even more twisted!

2009\03\30@083231 by Tony Smith

flavicon
face
> ** Metric countries measure paper thickness in grams per square
>    meter (GSM).  That's consistent.  It's great.


An A0 sheet is 1 square metre in area, so a sheet of A1 is 0.5 square
metres, and so on.  

I don't think I've ever found that useful though.  Maybe if I decided to
wallpaper the house with printouts?

Tony

2009\03\30@085345 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Tony Smith <RemoveMEajsmithKILLspamspambeagle.com.au> wrote:

> An A0 sheet is 1 square metre in area, so a sheet of A1 is 0.5 square
> metres, and so on.
>
> I don't think I've ever found that useful though.  Maybe if I decided to
> wallpaper the house with printouts?
>

My father used to use these paper sizes a lot as he was a design engineer
for heating systems, water supplies and such for buildings. He still has the
ink jet plotter that can print those giant papers - you can buy special
photo papers as well to print posters, but I think the real use was to print
3D virtual photos of the design.

Tamas
--
http://www.mcuhobby.com

2009\03\30@100416 by Tony Smith

flavicon
face
> > An A0 sheet is 1 square metre in area, so a sheet of A1 is 0.5 square
> > metres, and so on.
> >
> > I don't think I've ever found that useful though.  Maybe if I decided to
> > wallpaper the house with printouts?
> >
>
> My father used to use these paper sizes a lot as he was a design engineer
> for heating systems, water supplies and such for buildings. He still has
the
> ink jet plotter that can print those giant papers - you can buy special
> photo papers as well to print posters, but I think the real use was to
print
> 3D virtual photos of the design.


Actually I meant you can easily calculate the area the paper would cover, eg
A4 is 1/16 sqr m, so a ream would be 500/16 sqr m, giving a bit over 30 sqr
metres.  I'm going to need a few to do the house, and the cost of ink will
bankrupt me.

I used to draw maps, A0 came in handy then.

Tony

2009\03\30@104849 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
At 03:15 AM 3/28/2009, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

>I am looking for a pdf-creation tool, free would be nice, that can be
>configured to work without any pop-ups. (I know how to run word from a
>command line, so it would enable me to create pdfs from a batch file.)
>Any suggestions?

I've previously mentioned PrimoPDF - I *think* that it is
well-behaved and doesn't throw unnecessary pop-ups.  It may be worth
checking out at <http://www.primopdf.com>

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid   <dwaynerSTOPspamspamspam_OUTplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2009\03\30@173536 by Herbert Graf

picon face
On Sun, 2009-03-29 at 19:29 +0100, Tamas Rudnai wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Joseph Bento <spamBeGonejosephSTOPspamspamEraseMEkirtland.com> wrote:
>
> > This is one of those cases where we Americans differ from the rest of
> > the world.  90% of the world (excluding the USA, Canada, and to some
> > extent, Mexico) use ISO defined paper sizes.  8.5 x 11, 8.4 x 14, etc
> > do not fall within these standards.  It would seem as globalization
> > becomes ever more common, that we (USA) would adopt the standards used
> > throughout the rest of the world.  Why are we always the holdout?
> >
>
> At least you guys are driving on the _right_ side of the road ;-)
>
> BTW: I thought Canada uses metrics? Or it is not for everything?

Officially we are metric. The fact that our biggest trading partner is
the US means we are a mishmash in every sense of the word. FWIW I was
taught metric in school.

Personally, I prefer distance in meters or km, yet height in feet and
inches! (If you tell me I'm 172cm tall I'd have no concept how tall that
is, yet 5'8" I immediately "know". The only reason I know I'm 172cm tall
is it's on my license).

Building materials pretty much all are in US units, we have 4x8' sheets,
2x4" studs, 16" on centre spacing, 10 penny nails, 7/16" nuts, etc.

Weight for me is pounds, any weight in grams or kg is converted in my
mind to pounds.

Volume for me is litres (volume is dangerous in Canada because our
"quasi-official" gallon is the UK gallon, yet many use the US gallon, so
figures like mpg are usually based on the US gallon, yet sometimes
you'll get measurements in gallons that use the UK gallon).

Temp for me is Celsius, I convert F temps in my mind.

Pressure for me is psi (i.e. car tires), I have no concept of kPa or
Bar, except for atmospheric pressure which I know kPa and have no
concept of inches of mercury (or whatever it is, that's a conversion I
don't know off hand).

Some might consider the mishmash a downside, I consider it a strength.
Since I'm very familiar with both metric and US measurements I'm very
good at converting between the two. This comes in very handy when
travelling to various regions or when simply "interfacing" between
people from different areas of the world. I had a bunch of conversations
recently with people from the US and others from Europe. I became the
"unit translator", any time one used a unit the other didn't know I
provided the rough conversion on the fly! Both sides were rather
impressed.

I wish we all used metric, it is certainly the more logical system, but
that's just the way it is.

At least we don't used stones for weight, I always laugh a little when
watching the UK UFC matches and they list the weight in stones... :)

TTYL

2009\03\30@182109 by Jinx

face picon face
> Personally, I prefer distance in meters or km, yet height in feet and
> inches! (If you tell me I'm 172cm tall I'd have no concept how tall
> that is, yet 5'8" I immediately "know"

Me too, and it must be the same for many. A local police reality show
has descriptions of wanted persons at the end of the program. Heights
are written on the screen in cm but the voice over will say that's about
5'8". Yet distances are not converted from metric, nor weights. I think
it's because height is right in front of you, a mile isn't,.and weight is often
hard to judge accurately because of body shape. Vaguer terms like
'medium to heavy build' are used instead



2009\03\30@190427 by cdb

flavicon
face


:: I had a bunch of conversations
:: recently with people from the US and others from Europe. I became
:: the "unit translator"

The unit translator falls down when discussing PCB's and pick and
place measurements - "move it 2.3 mil", uhm is that mil as in
thousandths of an inch or mil as in millimetre? Blank look ensues -
P&P machine set up in mm's PCB designed in mils.

Still, trying to work out where a -470 degree placement would land was
probably more of a problem.

Colin


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2009\03\31@015653 by Vis Naicker

flavicon
face
> On Mar 29, 2009, at 10:53 AM, Joseph Bento wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 29, 2009, at 10:28 AM, Olin Lathrop wrote:
>> Here in the US ... 99.9% of ordinary people
>> ...people will get pissed off.  There is also "legal" size used by
>> lawyers and the like...
>>
>
> This is one of those cases where we Americans differ from the rest of
> the world.  90% of the world (excluding the USA, Canada, and to some
> extent, Mexico) use ISO defined paper sizes.  8.5 x 11, 8.4 x 14, etc
> do not fall within these standards.  It would seem as globalization
> becomes ever more common, that we (USA) would adopt the standards used
> throughout the rest of the world.  Why are we always the holdout?
>
> Joe

A further reminder to stop and think before forcing defaults onto
other people. Many printer drivers ( it has improved recently but
not enough ) default to Letter on Windows. Page size is available
in the printer setup, and the output tray paper select, and somewhere
else, and it becomes quite frustrating to change output tray to A4,
then do a preview and the preview box jumps to Letter.

That is poor engineering by the software developers. Also frustrating
is that even with the correct regional settings, the Date format is at
the whim of the (US) software devloper, oftentimes anyway.

VisN

2009\03\31@064200 by sergio masci

flavicon
face


On Mon, 30 Mar 2009, Tamas Rudnai wrote:

{Quote hidden}

The other side of the coin is that if you rotate a drawing, scale it by a
factor of 2 and print the top half on one sheet of A4 and the botton half
on anther sheet you can very easily join the two sheets to get an
effective A3 result. Using this rotate, scale and split you can easily
build very large drawings (A2, A1, A0 and even bigger) on cheap printers.

Regards
Sergio Masci


'[EE]: pdf tool without pop-ups?'
2009\04\25@194851 by Gerhard Fiedler
picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

>> Apparently Primo PDF - http://www.primopdf.com - will act as a printer, and can be
>> configured to print without any confirmation dialogs.  The .PDF will have
>> the same name as the .DOC.
>
> I tried that one, but for me it pops up a window - I did not find a way
> to prevent that.

I haven't actually tried, but I think that pdfFactory can be configured
to execute without a popup.

Gerhard

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