Searching \ for '[EE]: enameled silver wire? Now: Silver plate in R' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=silver+plate
Search entire site for: 'enameled silver wire? Now: Silver plate in R'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[EE]: enameled silver wire? Now: Silver plate in R'
2002\10\11@094626 by Jim

flavicon
face
Excerpted from:

http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/why_silver_plate.html


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


GBPPR Tech Bulletin #3 - Why Silver Plate RF Components?

Silver plating RF components is a concept amateur radio operators fail to
recognize.  ...

Excerpt from Carl, KM1H

Silver plating is used to preserve performance and RF conductivity in widely
varying enviroments such as the military.  For average ham use it probably
is not important.  The output of my 432 MHz cavity amp has not changed in 20
years and it is all copper and brass.  The only true silver plate is the
industrial style hard plate and there are variations there also.  Best to
consult a professional plater for details.  The brush-on soft plate is a
sham and has been described as such by many VHF/UHF authors.

End excerpt



Excerpt from Gary, KE4ZV

... Perhaps, or perhaps not.  Since a lot of RF conductors are silver
plated, and silver isn't cheap, it seems a bit hard to swallow that those
hard headed manufacturing engineers are doing it just for decoration,
especially since most of that silver plate is never seen by the customer.
Even Detroit doesn't chrome plate the inside of its engines without a sound
technical reason.

So perhaps we're overlooking a factor here.  I think Jack may have given us
a clue.  Lets see what the oxides of the two metals look like.  Right away
we notice something striking.  CuO (copper oxide) has a magnetic
susceptability of +267 while AgO (silver oxide) has a magnetic
susceptability of -19.  Hmmm... now that seems to put us on the footing
where we found ourselves when discussing steel wire for antennas a few
months back.  (By way of comparison, the magnetic susceptability of FeO
(ferric oxide, rust) is 293.)  The much higher magnetic susceptability of
CuO means the skin depth will be *very* thin, and net skin resistivity very
high.  Meanwhile, the negative value for AgO means that the skin depth will
be greater than anticipated, so the margin between the two for RF seems much
greater than 3%.

Figures are from the CRC Handbook, 47th edition, table starting on page
E-103.

As with steel versus copper for antenna wires, we have to look beyond DC
resistance to find out which material is better suited to the task.  It
turns out that oxidized copper is almost as bad as oxidized steel as an RF
conductor.  That shouldn't surprise us, corroded coax (from water wicking
into the braid) is a very lossy medium.  Now we know why.

End excerpt



Excerpt from Rudy, N6LF

Sometimes silver plating is suggested for conductors.  The conductivity of
silver is only 6% better than copper, but when the surface oxidizes, silver
oxide is a much better conductor than copper oxide.

End excerpt



Excerpt from PolyPhaser Technical Document PTD1010

Silver oxide is the only oxide (that we know of) that is conductive.  This
is one reason why PolyPhaser's N-type coax connectors are all silver with
gold center pins.  Copper oxide is not conductive and the proper application
of joint compound will prevent oxidation.

End excerpt



Excerpt from the ARRL Handbook

... Silver plating the tubing further reduces losses.  This is especially
true as the tubing ages and oxidizes.  Silver oxide is a much better
conductor than copper oxides, so silver-plated tank coils maintain their
low-loss characteristics even after years of use.

End excerpt

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

RF Jim


{Original Message removed}

2002\10\11@161137 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> Silver oxide is the only oxide (that we know of) that is conductive.

I thought tin oxide is also conductive?


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2002\10\12@003541 by Jim

flavicon
face
What does your experience probing with dull
scope or DVM probes on a circuit's solder joints
tell you?

RF Jim


{Original Message removed}

2002\10\12@052157 by Thomas C. Sefranek

face picon face
I believe the tarnish on silver is silver SULFIDE...

 *
 |  __O    Thomas C. Sefranek   spam_OUTtcsTakeThisOuTspamcmcorp.com
 |_-\<,_   Amateur Radio Operator: WA1RHP
 (*)/ (*)  Bicycle mobile on 145.41, 448.625 MHz

hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/Inventory.html
http://www.harvardrepeater.org

{Original Message removed}

2002\10\12@103153 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> > I thought tin oxide is also conductive?
>
> What does your experience probing with dull
> scope or DVM probes on a circuit's solder joints
> tell you?

Not much since there is also lead in the equation somewhere.

I don't know what resistivity you require to call something "conductive",
but it was my recollection that tin oxide was used as a conductive and
transparent layer in some LCDs.  I vaguely remember this from a Scientific
American article introducing LCDs in the early to mid 1970s.  This practise
may have been discontinued long ago, or I may just remember wrong
altogether.  Anyone that knows about LDC details care to comment?


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email .....listservKILLspamspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\10\12@104317 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> I believe the tarnish on silver is silver SULFIDE...

Hmm, so where does the sulfur come from when silverware gets tarnished
sitting in a drawer in the basement for a year?  Is there really that much
sulfur dioxide or whatever in the atmosphere?


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email listservspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\10\12@105400 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Hmm, so where does the sulfur come from when silverware gets tarnished
>sitting in a drawer in the basement for a year?  Is there really that much
>sulfur dioxide or whatever in the atmosphere?

I guess it depends on where you live. Do remember that one of the major
pollutants from motor vehicle fumes is sulphur products, and even the recent
low sulphur fuels are exactly that - they still contain sulphur products.

I guess if you lived on a desert island with no motor vehicles the silver
tarnish rate may be quite low :))))

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email .....listservKILLspamspam.....mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\10\12@143846 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> I guess it depends on where you live. Do remember that one of the major
> pollutants from motor vehicle fumes is sulphur products, and even the
recent
> low sulphur fuels are exactly that - they still contain sulphur products.
>
> I guess if you lived on a desert island with no motor vehicles the silver
> tarnish rate may be quite low :))))

That would mean the need to polish silver to remove tarnish would have been
much less before the industrial revolution.  I had the impression (perhaps
incorrectly) that this was a chore people had to do as far back as there was
silverware.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email EraseMElistservspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\10\12@145537 by Doug Butler

picon face
It was a chore as far back as there was silverware and egg yolks.

Doug Butler
Sherpa Engineering


> {Original Message removed}

2002\10\12@173915 by Jinx

face picon face
> It was a chore as far back as there was silverware and egg yolks.
>
> Doug Butler
> Sherpa Engineering

Was that before or after there were chickens ?

One place to really study AgS is Rotorua, or Sulphur City, in the
geothermic middle of NZ's North Island. Only the brave have silver

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email listservspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body


2002\10\13@014345 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Olin Lathrop wrote:

*>I don't know what resistivity you require to call something "conductive",
*>but it was my recollection that tin oxide was used as a conductive and
*>transparent layer in some LCDs.  I vaguely remember this from a Scientific
*>American article introducing LCDs in the early to mid 1970s.  This practise
*>may have been discontinued long ago, or I may just remember wrong
*>altogether.  Anyone that knows about LDC details care to comment?

That is not tin oxide, it is Indium Tin Oxide (ITO), which is a different
substance. It is a complex oxide.

Peter

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
@spam@piclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu


2002\10\13@014953 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Olin Lathrop wrote:

*>> I guess it depends on where you live. Do remember that one of the major
*>> pollutants from motor vehicle fumes is sulphur products, and even the
*>recent
*>> low sulphur fuels are exactly that - they still contain sulphur products.
*>>
*>> I guess if you lived on a desert island with no motor vehicles the silver
*>> tarnish rate may be quite low :))))
*>
*>That would mean the need to polish silver to remove tarnish would have been
*>much less before the industrial revolution.  I had the impression (perhaps
*>incorrectly) that this was a chore people had to do as far back as there was
*>silverware.

They were burning coal and wood. Both produce lots of sulfurous smoke.
There is also the psychology of saying 'polishing the silver' instead of
mentioning the square hectometers of windows and floors that also needed
cleaning and polishing.

Peter

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
KILLspampiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu


2002\10\13@090328 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>One place to really study AgS is Rotorua, or Sulphur City, in the
>geothermic middle of NZ's North Island. Only the brave have silver

On the other hand they could do like the Russians and not polish it. All the
silverware in the Moscow Kremlin is left to tarnish. The Russian attitude is
that polishing it will remove the detail from the silverwork.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu


2002\10\13@100209 by Jim

flavicon
face
I rememberd a series of 'tests' I performed on
some "Cinch-Jones" plugs and sockets while driving
yesterday.

In the mid-80's I was doing engineering work on an RKT
(retrofit kit) for the LRU-1 Test Set for the Panavia
Tornado Nose mounted dual-mode RADAR's central ddigital
processor  ... one of these six "pin" connectors were
used as the power and ground connector on each of the
wire-warapped board in the CCB (central circuit board)
assembly.

Each of the 'spade'-style connector 'pins' had some sort
of tin or tin-lead plate - and *NEW* out of stock would
stand-off (insulate, NOT conduct) voltages of .1 to .2
volts due to some sort of oxide (?) layer and dropped
something even larger than that when in service.

I made the decision based on the poor performance of this
fifties-vintage connector to replace them with some
superior-performing Molex connectors ...

RF Jim

{Original Message removed}

2002\10\13@103011 by tcs

face picon face
You probably have heard the term "acid Rain",
The principles of combustion of sulfur laden fuels (Home heating oils, Jet
fuel, desel fuel etc.)
causes much more sulfur dioxide than you might be aware of in the "air".
(Besides have you ever followed (smelled) a car with a malfunctioning
catalytic converter....)

> {Original Message removed}

2002\10\13@135353 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Alan B. Pearce wrote:

*>>One place to really study AgS is Rotorua, or Sulphur City, in the
*>>geothermic middle of NZ's North Island. Only the brave have silver
*>
*>On the other hand they could do like the Russians and not polish it. All the
*>silverware in the Moscow Kremlin is left to tarnish. The Russian attitude is
*>that polishing it will remove the detail from the silverwork.

Maybe they can't afford the continuous cleaning ;-)

Peter

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonespammitvma.mit.edu


More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2002 , 2003 only
- Today
- New search...