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'[EE]: build UV eeprom eraser'
2001\05\06@093234 by Roman Black

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Hi everyone, I decided to build a UV eeprom eraser
instead of purchasing one at inflated prices here in
Australia. ($100 US)

Turned out to be VERY easy, I got the UV germicidal
tube, G4T5 (4w 5" tube) for $13 US at the local
electronics store.

I got a 4w "childrens nightlight" which runs directly
from 240vac mains, from a K-mart type store for $9 US.
It had a F4T5 white tube.
The tubes are interchangable, so I have a mains powered
4w UV eraser for $22 US.

If anyone is interested, I pulled the nighlight apart
to see what was inside and was *intrigued* to find
there are no active or expensive parts in it. No
transistors, no coils, no transformers etc. It has
2 small resistors, 2 diodes, 2 small mylar style
caps. Very cheap and easy to assemble. It doesn't
even need the heater elements in the tube, just uses
one pin at each end so it will work fine even on a
tube with blown heater filament.

If someone wants the circuit I can reverse engineer
it and put up a circuit diagram. It interested me
anyway, I was just about to design an inverter
circuit to power the 4w tube but someone found a
much simpler solution to me!! :o)
-Roman

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2001\05\06@112749 by rottosen

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Roman:

Please do reverse engineer it for us.

In trade, I will give you the reverse engineered info for an LED traffic
light. My friend Al Brown did this. Al did a lot of work to get the
schematic since there were 180 LED's in the circuit.


Note to James Newton: What is the preferred method of posting a
schematic? Is a PDF attachment proper? What maximum size is acceptable?


-- Rich


Roman Black wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\05\06@123551 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>Hi everyone, I decided to build a UV eeprom eraser
>instead of purchasing one at inflated prices here in
>Australia. ($100 US)

       :oO Neither in Brazil an eprom eraser is so expensive!!!

>Turned out to be VERY easy, I got the UV germicidal
>tube, G4T5 (4w 5" tube) for $13 US at the local
>electronics store.

       Expensive too! There you can find these bulbs at around $5, for a tube with 15"

>If anyone is interested, I pulled the nighlight apart
>to see what was inside and was *intrigued* to find
>there are no active or expensive parts in it. No
>transistors, no coils, no transformers etc. It has
>2 small resistors, 2 diodes, 2 small mylar style
>caps. Very cheap and easy to assemble. It doesn't
>even need the heater elements in the tube, just uses
>one pin at each end so it will work fine even on a
>tube with blown heater filament.

       THIS is interesting. What about the lifetime of bulb? I'd love to see this thing working, hehehehehe

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2001\05\06@151502 by David VanHorn

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ALL it is, is a flourescent light, with a different tube.

All you need, is a starter and ballast appropriate for the tube, and I'd
prefer a safety switch on the door/lid/whatever, and a timer.

Timer switches are available, for energy-savings on lighting, as standard
home/industrial lighting items.

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2001\05\06@154844 by James Newton

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The amount of data that can be attached is limited, but I don't remember
what the limit is... It was the number of lines of attached data in its
encoded format rather than the size of the file before attachment so it may
be hard to tell... Mike has the details on that...

The best thing to do is upload it to a web server and then post a link Email
it to me privately at jamesnewtonspamspam_OUTpiclist.com if you like and I will post it
on piclist.com

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
@spam@jamesnewtonKILLspamspampiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

2001\05\06@160751 by Florian Voelzke

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part 0 51 bytes
ies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.
part 1 1884 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii (decoded 7bit)

"Alexandre Domingos F. Souza" wrote:
>
> >If anyone is interested, I pulled the nighlight apart
> >to see what was inside and was *intrigued* to find
> >there are no active or expensive parts in it. No
> >transistors, no coils, no transformers etc. It has
> >2 small resistors, 2 diodes, 2 small mylar style
> >caps. Very cheap and easy to assemble. It doesn't
> >even need the heater elements in the tube, just uses
> >one pin at each end so it will work fine even on a
> >tube with blown heater filament.
>
>         THIS is interesting. What about the lifetime of bulb? I'd love to see this thing working, hehehehehe

Quite a while ago, I bought a similar one here in germany. I used it to
build - an eprom eraser! And I too was much to interested to leave it
unopened :-).
These units use the fact that the small 4W tubes don't have the same
high ignition voltage than the big, long tubes. The big tubes use
(better: used) an inductor in series to limit the current and to produce
the ignition voltage together with a small neon tube - the starter.
In the unit I bought the inductance is replaced by a cap which provides
the same current limiting. To ignite the tube there is a simple sort of
peak voltage doubler which gives 650V (at 230V mains), which is enough
for this small tube (in most cases...).
The main disadvantage: The doubled voltage to ignite the tube is not
enough in every case. It happened to me that I switched the unit on and
nothing happened - until I touched the tube. I don't expect the tube to
ignite at low temperatures, either.
And because eagle is already running, I have drawn the following short
schematic, ripped from my unit when I examined it. So sad that I don't
have use for more 4W tubes, so I haven't yet cloned this device ;-)

Florian

part 2 23959 bytes content-type:application/pdf; (decode)

part 3 105 bytes
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2001\05\06@164153 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>And because eagle is already running, I have drawn the following short
>schematic, ripped from my unit when I examined it. So sad that I don't
>have use for more 4W tubes, so I haven't yet cloned this device ;-)

       Very interesting! But will not work for - example - 10 watt bulbs? What about 110V, that is the mains in Brazil?

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2001\05\06@175059 by David VanHorn

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At 05:37 PM 5/6/01 -0300, Alexandre Domingos F. Souza wrote:
> >And because eagle is already running, I have drawn the following short
> >schematic, ripped from my unit when I examined it. So sad that I don't
> >have use for more 4W tubes, so I haven't yet cloned this device ;-)
>
>         Very interesting! But will not work for - example - 10 watt
> bulbs? What about 110V, that is the mains in Brazil?

Use 10W ballast and starter from a cheap desk lamp or fishtank light.

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2001\05\06@180136 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>>         Very interesting! But will not work for - example - 10 watt
>> bulbs? What about 110V, that is the mains in Brazil?
>Use 10W ballast and starter from a cheap desk lamp or fishtank light.

       This is the easy way, but I'm looking for learning new things :o)

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2001\05\06@184814 by David VanHorn

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>
> >Use 10W ballast and starter from a cheap desk lamp or fishtank light.
>
>         This is the easy way, but I'm looking for learning new things :o)

I hear you.

I want to learn too, but not how to build eprom erasers. :)

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2001\05\06@185436 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>>         This is the easy way, but I'm looking for learning new things :o)
>I hear you.
>I want to learn too, but not how to build eprom erasers. :)

       Sure! But what about a new type of ballast, lots CHEAPER than the ones used today (does in USA people use electronic balasts? Here we have it a lot!). Always an oportunity to learn and - who knows - put some buckets in the wallet :o)

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2001\05\06@190719 by Tony Nixon

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I bought a 12V car fluro from KMart about 6 years ago and placed a UV
tube in place of the white phosphor type. It has been working off a
small plug pak ever since. When I need it of course :-)

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Tony

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2001\05\06@190940 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>> >Use 10W ballast and starter from a cheap desk lamp or fishtank light.
>>         This is the easy way, but I'm looking for learning new things :o)
>I hear you.
>I want to learn too, but not how to build eprom erasers. :)

       Talking about "how to build eprom erasers", I remembered a funny thing...

       The year was around 1993. Maybe 94. I got my first apple II (it was a Brazilian clone of the ][+), with one disk drive (that couldn't write a disk - there was a chip broken, and it was so expensive I couldn't afford it) and I exchanged my MSX (it was EXPENSIVE at these times) for an IC TEST Board for the apple, and an Eprom programmer. Funny, it could program only 2716/32/64, and I hacked to program 128. You couldn't even select the proper vpp voltage in the program, you should give some "turns" in a multiturn pot in the board. More archaic, impossible :o) Even with that, I couldn't program EPROMs, 'cause I hadn't an eprom eraser. As "the need is the mother of all inventions" I started to think how could I do that, and found a way, with a transformer (to get 220V), a voltage doubler and a mains lamp. As the element to gimme ultraviolet, I remembered there was a kind of lamp - mercury vapour, if I'm not mistaken - that worked almost like a fluorescent lamp - but there was a "bulb" inside of it, that emitted UV, and the white coating of the external glass, turned that in visible light.

       So I got everything togheter, and built my first eprom eraser. It worked like a charm, could erase only 3 or 4 EPROMs at time, but it was better (wow, how better!!!) than absolutely nothing. Comercial eprom erasers costed a lot that days. Nowadays I have an industrial eraser, that comport 40 eproms at time. But I used the "poor Alexandre eprom eraser" until 1998, when I got this new eraser. And it's still working!!! I gave it to a friend of mine, and he uses it until today! Of course it's cheap to get a lamp, a ballast and a box now and do your own deccent eprom eraser. But that one works, and he needs nothing more than that.

       It's nice to remember that, because someone in this list, I'm sure, will use this simple knowledge (the eprom eraser we were talking) to do something great, at least to him. And that brings to my mind: Even the smallest knowledge, can be all the diference for the right man.

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2001\05\06@191821 by David VanHorn

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>
>         It's nice to remember that, because someone in this list, I'm
> sure, will use this simple knowledge (the eprom eraser we were talking)
> to do something great, at least to him. And that brings to my mind: Even
> the smallest knowledge, can be all the diference for the right man.

All I'm saying, is that to me, the eraser is a tool.
I use it to do other things.

The other things are where I'd rather spend my limited time.
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2001\05\06@192902 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>All I'm saying, is that to me, the eraser is a tool.
>I use it to do other things.
>The other things are where I'd rather spend my limited time.

       I agree, but isn't so fun creating you own tools??? :oD

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2001\05\06@193939 by David VanHorn

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>
>         I agree, but isn't so fun creating you own tools??? :oD

It's a fine line.
When I'm deep in a project, I don't want to get time-vampired by tools.
I have no objection to developing tools, but that's a project in itself.

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2001\05\07@010112 by Mike

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part 1 1017 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii (decoded quoted-printable)

James Newton wrote:
> The amount of data that can be attached is limited, but I don't remember
> what the limit is... It was the number of lines of attached data in its
> encoded format rather than the size of the file before attachment so it may
> be hard to tell... Mike has the details on that...

The size limit on attachments is 1000 lines after any encoding that your
emailer does.  I'm not quite sure what that works out to in actual file
size, though.  I keep meaning to try and work that out.

Like James said in the part of the message that I snipped, the best solution
for large files is post the file to a web server (and there's *lots* of free
servers out there) and then post the URL to the list.
-- Mike Werner  KA8YSD   | He that is slow to believe anything and
                     | everything is of great understanding,
'91 GS500E            | for belief in one false principle is the
Morgantown WV         | beginning of all unwisdom.



part 2 233 bytes content-type:application/pgp-signature (decode)

part 3 154 bytes
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2001\05\07@034416 by Arpit

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On Sun, 6 May 2001 18:17:55 -0500, you wrote:

>>
>>         It's nice to remember that, because someone in this list, I'm
>> sure, will use this simple knowledge (the eprom eraser we were talking)
>> to do something great, at least to him. And that brings to my mind: Even
>> the smallest knowledge, can be all the diference for the right man.
>
>All I'm saying, is that to me, the eraser is a tool.
>I use it to do other things.
Exactly, I don't make my own pliers, or make paper to print on. But
sometimes improvisation CAN be fun.

>
>The other things are where I'd rather spend my limited time.
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>Where's dave? http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?kc6ete-9

--------------------------
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2001\05\07@035500 by Roman Black

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Richard Ottosen wrote:
>
> Roman:
>
> Please do reverse engineer it for us.
>
> In trade, I will give you the reverse engineered info for an LED traffic
> light. My friend Al Brown did this. Al did a lot of work to get the
> schematic since there were 180 LED's in the circuit.


Hi Richard, sounds great. :o)
I will get the schematic and put it up with
a couple of photos on my web page tonight.
-Roman

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2001\05\07@040535 by Roman Black

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David VanHorn wrote:
>
> ALL it is, is a flourescent light, with a different tube.
>
> All you need, is a starter and ballast appropriate for the tube, and I'd
> prefer a safety switch on the door/lid/whatever, and a timer.

Ha ha! I'm not afraid of building a flourescent light. :o)
Have you found a good source for obtaining 4w ballasts??
And micro 2-pin fittings for a 4w tube? That's why I just
bought a cheap 4w nightlight from the supermarket.

The part that I thought intriguing was that it doesn't
use a ballast or even a starter for that matter. And
no "electronic" ballast. Just 2 caps, 2 resistors and
one cheap diode. Can't get better than that. ;o)


> Timer switches are available, for energy-savings on lighting, as standard
> home/industrial lighting items.

They are normally 24-hour timers. Better timers come
from small microwave ovens, 0-60min countdown timers. :o)
-Roman

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2001\05\07@041414 by David VanHorn

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>
>Ha ha! I'm not afraid of building a flourescent light. :o)
>Have you found a good source for obtaining 4w ballasts??
>And micro 2-pin fittings for a 4w tube? That's why I just
>bought a cheap 4w nightlight from the supermarket.

Ballasts and starters from Fishtank light, Old desk light.
Sockets from same, or from battery flourescents.

>The part that I thought intriguing was that it doesn't
>use a ballast or even a starter for that matter. And
>no "electronic" ballast. Just 2 caps, 2 resistors and
>one cheap diode. Can't get better than that. ;o)

Someone else commented that this start method isn't real reliable.
I'd be pissed after a couple rounds of expecting erased parts and not
getting them.


>They are normally 24-hour timers. Better timers come
>from small microwave ovens, 0-60min countdown timers. :o)

Not so.  I've seen them in 0-60 min, and 0-8 hours.

The microwave offers a novel approach though.  If you can get the
microwaves to excite the nitrogen, then you'll get plenty of UV.

You MAY need an EMI shield over the EPROMs though :)



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2001\05\07@041615 by Roman Black

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Florian Voelzke wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Hi Florian, yes that circuit looks very similar to
the light I bought. Mine doesn't have the two 68ohm
series resitors to the tube, but instead has the wires
8 inches long. Probably a cheaper way of keeping the
RF down.

The capacitor and resistor values are slightly different,
but the circuit is essentially the same operation.

Just a note, there is a very important component, a
copper foil stripe that runs the length of the tube
and is attached to one tube wire. This is vital to start
the tube and is the reason yours doesn't start until
your finger touches the tube. Mine starts fine, and
quickly, even when quite cold. These foil stripes are
often used in cheap inverter fluoros.
:o)
-Roman

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2001\05\07@081942 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>Ha ha! I'm not afraid of building a flourescent light. :o)
>Have you found a good source for obtaining 4w ballasts??
>And micro 2-pin fittings for a 4w tube? That's why I just
>bought a cheap 4w nightlight from the supermarket.

       And it's nice to remember that sometimes is way cheaper to buy a complete product, than it's parts!

>The part that I thought intriguing was that it doesn't
>use a ballast or even a starter for that matter. And
>no "electronic" ballast. Just 2 caps, 2 resistors and
>one cheap diode. Can't get better than that. ;o)

       I will ressearch into this...maybe I can use it with a 10 watt bulb :o)

>They are normally 24-hour timers. Better timers come
>from small microwave ovens, 0-60min countdown timers. :o)

       BTW these are nice circuits to dig around! Microwave boards are cheap and have lots of interesting components, even hi power relays and a clock!!!

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2001\05\07@090947 by Olin Lathrop

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>>
element to gimme ultraviolet, I remembered there was a kind of lamp -
mercury vapour, if I'm not mistaken - that worked almost like a fluorescent
lamp - but there was a "bulb" inside of it, that emitted UV, and the white
coating of the external glass, turned that in visible light.
<<

Flourescent lamps ARE mercury vapor lamps.  These all work by electrically
exciting the mercury atoms.  At the right temperature and pressure, a
mercury vapor is quite efficient at converting the electrical energy into UV
radiation.

A normal white-light flourescent lamp has a phosphor coating on the inside
of the glass.  The UV from the mercury excites the phosphor, which
re-radiates the energy in the visible range.  UV lamps for prom erasers and
germ killing use the UV directly from the mercury vapor.  The bulb has to be
made of quartz instead of ordinary glass because glass will absorb most of
the UV.  Quartz is still mostly transparent at the mercury UV wavelength.

Personally I'd rather pay for a UV prom eraser with a proper safety
interlock.  The UV coming from a quartz mercury vapor lamp is ionizing
radiation.  This is serious business.  It can damage eyes and other things.


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, olinSTOPspamspamspam_OUTembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2001\05\07@093948 by Andy N1YEW

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i built a four hour timer :-)

http://www.qsl.net/n1yew
Andy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roman Black" <spamBeGonefastvidSTOPspamspamEraseMEEZY.NET.AU>
To: <KILLspamPICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]: build UV eeprom eraser


{Quote hidden}

standard
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2001\05\07@185326 by Peter L. Peres

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Roman, the circuit you discovered is a multiplier (voltage doubler
probably). This is an old trick that only works for lower power tubes. It
is very likely that the output is less than 4W. Check the current !

Peter

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2001\05\07@185345 by Peter L. Peres

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To make a stubborn tube fire when hot add a single insulated (!) wire
taped lengthwise to it. It should start and end just before the end caps
of the tube (not connected to anything). It increases the field near the
electrodes when the tube is off and helps the initial discharge to start.

Peter

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