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PICList Thread
'[EE]: VHF and UHF mini modules'
2001\07\29@203153 by asena

picon face
Hello people !!

I am looking for mini TX modules for VHF and UHF freqs.

Beware: i do not want those data modules like Radiometrix...etc...., but yes, true voice synthesized transmitters.

These are for Amateur Radio aplications.

I know that HAMTRONICS, INC. in the USA has very good ones, but i seek for European companies that also have these kind of mini
Transmitters.

Thank you, 73 de Sena CT2GPW



*********************************************************
Antonio Sergio Sena     CT2GPW
spam_OUTasenaTakeThisOuTspambigfoot.com

BEng Electrical & Electronic Engineering
Heriot-Watt University - Edinburgh

Homepage: http://www.qsl.net/ct2gpw
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'[EE]: VHF and UHF mini modules'
2001\08\01@082557 by Chris Carr
flavicon
face
> Maxon SR-214 is a complete handheld transceiver operating tin the 70cm
band
> 10mW output runs off 4 AA batteries. Ideal as the basis for a higher
powered
{Quote hidden}

Thanks for your answer.
I am looking for small synthetized modules that can transmit in VHF or UHF.
I do not need tranceivers or a normal LPD already industrial friendly
boxed radio. A PCB (printed circuit board) module is enough for me. Do not
need pretty boxes :-).
The final system is going to be a speacial kind of Beacon for RDF.
Thanks

Sena

As a quick and easy to implement solution you will have difficulty beating
the SR-214. Just key the transmitter and forget about the receiver. Use a
PIC to emulate keystrokes. 10mW will get you around a mile with the attached
antenna.

Otherwise you are going to have to look at building designs from a handbook.

ARRL UHF/Microwave Experimenters Manual
ARRL UHF/Microwave Projects Manual Volumes 1 and 2

are a good starting point and should be available at the University Library
otherwise they can be purchased from the RSGB

VHF Communications also supply boards, partial and full kits for the
projects published in their magazine.

Regards

Chris Carr

Please respond via the list and not direct, other people may want to
contribute to the thread.

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2001\08\01@090445 by t F. Touchton

flavicon
face
part 1 3436 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I've used the Lynx modules with good success (433 and 915 Mhz).  Also, RF
Monolithics has some nice small single chip solutions for both a
transmitter and receiver.  I've lost track of this thread, and not sure of
your range requirements.  These two solutions are typically about 0dBm
output... and only will get about 300' of range or so.  I did get close to
1000' at 915Mhz, but that was open line of sight and the BER was getting
intolerable.  Of course, these products are typically 50 ohm output.  So it
does help to design a matching network to line up with your antenna.  I was
using quaterwave monopoles on ground plane.. about 75ohm impedance.  A
simple LC section did the impedance transformation.  Doing this added 25%
to the range.

Also.. since these are 50ohm parts, its very easy to use a MMIC amplifier
to get added output power.

Scott F. Touchton
1550 Engineering Manager
JDS Uniphase



                   Chris Carr
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> Maxon SR-214 is a complete handheld transceiver operating tin the 70cm
band
> 10mW output runs off 4 AA batteries. Ideal as the basis for a higher
powered
> unit.
>
> Cost # 29.95 UK. Available from ourselves or Waters & Stanton ( as you
> appear to be in Edinburgh JC, 20 Woodside Way, Glenrothes, Fife KY7 5DF
> 01592 756962
>
> Otherwise Vectronics have kits to build FM Receivers for 2, 6 and 10
metre
> bands #35.95 and a 5 watt 2 metre transmitter at #99.95
>
> Then there are the Ramsey and Ten-Tec Kits it all depends on what you
want
> to do.
>
> Regards
>
> Chris Carr
>
>


Thanks for your answer.
I am looking for small synthetized modules that can transmit in VHF or UHF.
I do not need tranceivers or a normal LPD already industrial friendly
boxed radio. A PCB (printed circuit board) module is enough for me. Do not
need pretty boxes :-).
The final system is going to be a speacial kind of Beacon for RDF.
Thanks

Sena

As a quick and easy to implement solution you will have difficulty beating
the SR-214. Just key the transmitter and forget about the receiver. Use a
PIC to emulate keystrokes. 10mW will get you around a mile with the
attached
antenna.

Otherwise you are going to have to look at building designs from a
handbook.

ARRL UHF/Microwave Experimenters Manual
ARRL UHF/Microwave Projects Manual Volumes 1 and 2

are a good starting point and should be available at the University Library
otherwise they can be purchased from the RSGB

VHF Communications also supply boards, partial and full kits for the
projects published in their magazine.

Regards

Chris Carr

Please respond via the list and not direct, other people may want to
contribute to the thread.

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2001\08\01@111209 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
Hi Scott,

On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Scott F. Touchton wrote:

>
> I've used the Lynx modules with good success (433 and 915 Mhz).  Also, RF
> Monolithics has some nice small single chip solutions for both a
> transmitter and receiver.  I've lost track of this thread, and not sure of

I just used the Linx SC series (916 MHz)in a project and I can second the
notion that they work well.

> your range requirements.  These two solutions are typically about 0dBm
> output... and only will get about 300' of range or so.  I did get close to
> 1000' at 915Mhz, but that was open line of sight and the BER was getting
> intolerable.  Of course, these products are typically 50 ohm output.  So it
> does help to design a matching network to line up with your antenna.  I was
> using quaterwave monopoles on ground plane.. about 75ohm impedance.  A
> simple LC section did the impedance transformation.  Doing this added 25%
> to the range.

I think you went the wrong way, a simple vertical monopole above a ground
plane has about 36 ohms impedance (it has the same radiation above the
ground plane as a 1/2 wave vertical in free space would, and almost no
radiation below the ground plane. This measn that ,overall, for the same
antenna current, it transmits half the power, so since power is I^2 *R,
this means half the R. R for a 1/2 wave dipole in free space is 72 ohms,
so 72/2=36)

I'm a bit surprised, though ,that this tiny mismatch made 25% difference.
When you say LC section, are you referring to microstrip L and C? It
would be difficult to make an LC filter with discretes at 916 MHz. You
can just use a 1/4 wave long section of microstrip transmission line as a
quarter wave transformer from 50ohm to 36 ohm.

>
> Also.. since these are 50ohm parts, its very easy to use a MMIC amplifier
> to get added output power.
>

Yes, and also to improve their noise figure (if you include n RF sensing
TR switch and a second MMIC amp). From their specs it seems as though their
receivers are
quite a bit less than optimal. Too bad the FCC doesn't allow more than
50mV/meter E field strength @ 3feet on this band, otherwise we could use
small yagis and get REALLY good range. Come to think of it, we could
still use a yagi on the receiver side, provided we had a TR switch, as
mentioned before.

It's interesting that this thread should come up now as I am almost
finished with my online tutorial on wireless communications for
microcontrollers. I will be sure to post to the list when it goes up, in
a few days.

Sean

{Quote hidden}

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2001\08\01@113731 by Chris Carr

flavicon
face
The requirements were for an audio link not data and available in the UK.
He also only wants transmitters
and reading between the lines wants Watts of power not milliwatts. And
wants a quick cheap solution.

Otherwise I would have suggested modifying ex-pmr equipment.

He specifically excluded off the shelf data modules.

Regards

Chris Carr


{Original Message removed}

2001\08\01@121318 by t F. Touchton

flavicon
face
part 1 7168 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Prior to matching obtained about 700' range.. after matching, got about
850' or so.  Did the match on both the xmtr and rcvr.  Not sure of the
range implications, but at 36 to 50 ohms this would pick up about 20% lost
power.

Also.. your analysis of the impedance is interesting, I had used an antenna
modeller to calculate input impedance, which was higher for the quaterwave
monopole due to the lack of surface area compared to half wave.   I'll go
back and double check this.  Might be I'm getting confused with radiation
resistance and input impedance.  However, I checked the match on the
network analyzer... so I know I went the right way at the time.

As for the matching... lumped element.  Do it everyday up to 1 Ghz... just
need to pick your inductors well.

Scott



                   Sean Breheny
                   <shb7@CORNELL.        To:     EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
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Hi Scott,

On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Scott F. Touchton wrote:

>
> I've used the Lynx modules with good success (433 and 915 Mhz).  Also, RF
> Monolithics has some nice small single chip solutions for both a
> transmitter and receiver.  I've lost track of this thread, and not sure
of

I just used the Linx SC series (916 MHz)in a project and I can second the
notion that they work well.

> your range requirements.  These two solutions are typically about 0dBm
> output... and only will get about 300' of range or so.  I did get close
to
> 1000' at 915Mhz, but that was open line of sight and the BER was getting
> intolerable.  Of course, these products are typically 50 ohm output.  So
it
> does help to design a matching network to line up with your antenna.  I
was
> using quaterwave monopoles on ground plane.. about 75ohm impedance.  A
> simple LC section did the impedance transformation.  Doing this added 25%
> to the range.

I think you went the wrong way, a simple vertical monopole above a ground
plane has about 36 ohms impedance (it has the same radiation above the
ground plane as a 1/2 wave vertical in free space would, and almost no
radiation below the ground plane. This measn that ,overall, for the same
antenna current, it transmits half the power, so since power is I^2 *R,
this means half the R. R for a 1/2 wave dipole in free space is 72 ohms,
so 72/2=36)

I'm a bit surprised, though ,that this tiny mismatch made 25% difference.
When you say LC section, are you referring to microstrip L and C? It
would be difficult to make an LC filter with discretes at 916 MHz. You
can just use a 1/4 wave long section of microstrip transmission line as a
quarter wave transformer from 50ohm to 36 ohm.

>
> Also.. since these are 50ohm parts, its very easy to use a MMIC amplifier
> to get added output power.
>

Yes, and also to improve their noise figure (if you include n RF sensing
TR switch and a second MMIC amp). From their specs it seems as though their
receivers are
quite a bit less than optimal. Too bad the FCC doesn't allow more than
50mV/meter E field strength @ 3feet on this band, otherwise we could use
small yagis and get REALLY good range. Come to think of it, we could
still use a yagi on the receiver side, provided we had a TR switch, as
mentioned before.

It's interesting that this thread should come up now as I am almost
finished with my online tutorial on wireless communications for
microcontrollers. I will be sure to post to the list when it goes up, in
a few days.

Sean

> Scott F. Touchton
> 1550 Engineering Manager
> JDS Uniphase
>
>
>
>                     Chris Carr
>                     <nyed@BTINTERN        To:     PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
>                     ET.COM>               cc:
>                     Sent by: pic          Subject:     Re: [EE]: VHF and
UHF mini modules
{Quote hidden}

UHF.
> I do not need tranceivers or a normal LPD already industrial friendly
> boxed radio. A PCB (printed circuit board) module is enough for me. Do
not
> need pretty boxes :-).
> The final system is going to be a speacial kind of Beacon for RDF.
> Thanks
>
> Sena
>
> As a quick and easy to implement solution you will have difficulty
beating
{Quote hidden}

Library
{Quote hidden}

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2001\08\01@121948 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
At 11:55 AM 8/1/01 -0400, Scott F. Touchton wrote:

>Prior to matching obtained about 700' range.. after matching, got about
>850' or so.  Did the match on both the xmtr and rcvr.  Not sure of the
>range implications, but at 36 to 50 ohms this would pick up about 20% lost
>power.

I don't know if this is relevant to your app, but a 1/4 wave radiates a
significant amount of energy straight up. (along the long axis)  A 5/8 wave
flattens this out.

Depends on wether talking to spacecraft is what you're into :)

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2001\08\01@123724 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
Hi Scott and Dave,

I can see how Dave's point would be relevant in general, but if the same
antenna and orientation was used in both cases, it shouldn't matter.

Scott, the voltaqge relfection coeff for 36 ohm/50ohm mismatch is
(36-50)/(36+50)=0.16. If you square this (to get relfected power), you
get only bout 0.02, or 2% power loss. It is true that the voltage at the
load end is reduced about 16%, but the load impedance is also lower(36
instead of50) so the net result is that only 2% less power is delivered
than would arrive at a 50 ohm load. All in all, you have about 4% more
power arriving at the receiver with the matching.

As for the lumped elements, I must admit I haven't tried it, so it may
not be as hard as I thought. However, it is really easy and cheap to make
a little 1.5 inch long (1/4 wave for microstrip on FR4 PCB at 916MHz)
tran line on your board to match these impedances.

About the antenna impedance, there may be some complication that I'm not
thinking about, what I gave is a "textbook" example. However, for a
resonant antenna, there is no difference between impedance and radiation
resistance (except for the small amount of ohmic losses). How did you set
up your simulation? I used EZNEC the other day to check my calculations
for my project, and I got 36 ohms for a 1/4 wave monopole over an
infinite ,perfectly conducting ground plane. As long as the copper sheet
under your monopole is at least a good fraction of a wavelength, I think
it would give results pretty close to the infinite sheet. What did you
mean by surface area?

Sean


On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, David VanHorn wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\08\01@130257 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
At 12:36 PM 8/1/01 -0400, Sean Breheny wrote:
>Hi Scott and Dave,
>
>I can see how Dave's point would be relevant in general, but if the same
>antenna and orientation was used in both cases, it shouldn't matter.

It does. Picture two 1/4 wave antennas separated by significant space.
BOTH of them, have significant lobes pointing straight up.
This means that the transmitter wastes a lot of power heating the sky, and
the receiver is loosing significant gain as well.


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in my signature line, but due to the inability of sysadmins at TELOCITY to
differentiate a signature line from the text of an email, I am forbidden to
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2001\08\01@140227 by Larry Williams

flavicon
face
Maxon makes a radio module that I have used to great success.  It is basicly a uhf portable radio that has not been completely stuffed of all parts.  The transmitter is a complete transceiver minus all receive parts, the receive is just the oposite.  Crystal controlled, up to 5 watts out, FM. Turn the power down a bit and run continuous.  I used a set of these to send audio from an announcers console at a race track to a FM broadcast transmitter.  It has been used for up to 1 week of continous operation. Cost is low.  At the least, take a couple of cheap vhf or uhf walkie talkies, any brand and get out the cutters and screwdrivers. You can even get a license for a legal freq to operate on with type accepted equipment.
> From: Chris Carr <@spam@nyedKILLspamspamBTINTERNET.COM>
> Date: 2001/08/01 Wed PM 04:34:14 EDT
> To: KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [EE]: VHF and UHF mini modules
>
> The requirements were for an audio link not data and available in the UK.
> He also only wants transmitters
>  and reading between the lines wants Watts of power not milliwatts. And
> wants a quick cheap solution.
>
> Otherwise I would have suggested modifying ex-pmr equipment.
>
> He specifically excluded off the shelf data modules.
>
> Regards
>
> Chris Carr
>
>
> {Original Message removed}

2001\08\01@142729 by Riaz Ahamed

picon face
Hi Chris,

 Could u tell me the appx range of this tx rx pair ...

Thanks
Riaz


{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}

2001\08\02@034437 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I don't know if this is relevant to your app, but a 1/4 wave radiates a
>significant amount of energy straight up. (along the long axis)  A 5/8 wave
>flattens this out.

>Depends on wether talking to spacecraft is what you're into :)

I agree with this, the lower angle of radiation is of benefit to ground
communication. A 5/8 wavelength whip also has another advantage, in that
it's resistive component of the impedance is very close to 50 ohms, and so
you need to only tune out the reactive part of the impedance, although this
is a larger reactive impedance than a quarter wave whip. At the end of the
day it can be a simpler aerial to use.

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2001\08\02@130901 by Jim

flavicon
face
Gotta reply to this ...

A 1/4 wave radiator DOES NOT radiate straight
up. As a matter of fact, this is where *minimum*
radiation takes place. Any antenna handbook
will easily bear me out on this.

The amplitude-pattern of a simple 1/4 wave (really - a
dipole, since the 'ground' plane proivdes a reflection
or image of the other half of the antenna ) antenna follows
the cosine of the angle (from a line straight out or normal
to the antenna wire/long axis) and the cosine of 90 degrees
is, of course, zero.

There are antennas that exhibit maximum 'radiation'
along their long axis, but the 1/4 wavelength (Lamda)
monopole/dipole is not one of them.

Jim

{Original Message removed}

2001\08\02@171701 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
At 08:49 AM 8/2/01 -0500, Jim wrote:
>Gotta reply to this ...
>
>A 1/4 wave radiator DOES NOT radiate straight
>up. As a matter of fact, this is where *minimum*
>radiation takes place. Any antenna handbook
>will easily bear me out on this.

You're right, I disremembered.
However, the 5/8 is still better at concentrating power twoard the horizon,
than the 1/4 wave.

The 1/4 wave works out well for working spacecraft, because it has moderate
gain above the horizon, and as the Sc passes overhead, the antenna null is
roughly compensated for by the drop in range.

Haven't tried ISS, but I worked MIR a few times, before it went into
geosink orbit.

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in my signature line, but due to the inability of sysadmins at TELOCITY to
differentiate a signature line from the text of an email, I am forbidden to
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2001\08\02@172749 by Mike Kendall

flavicon
face
Then again, you could use a co-linear antenna and get some real gain to the
horizon, like 7dbi.  Are you trying to talk omni-directional at ground
level?  It all depends on what you're using it for.  I used to see people
take 900mhz yagis, clip them to there windows and point them from an island
for a seriously long shot back to the coast.  If you are trying to get
distance, even a 5/8 wavelength whip is not the correct choice.  I must have
missed what the specific application of the antenna is.
Mike
{Original Message removed}

2001\08\02@175647 by Jim

flavicon
face
For that matter an array of four dipoles,
stacked 1/2 Lamda spacing (approx.) tip to
tip will provide even MORE power concentrated
at the horizon and if placed every 90 degrees
around a center supporting pole will provide a
bonafide, certifiable 6 deciBels of gain in 360
degree AZ pattern! (DB Products specs, gain
relative to a dipole.)

There are other reasons for why the 5/8 Lamda
works better than the simple monopole as well,
it indeed does have something of a 'raised' or
elevated  pattern contrasted with a 5/8 Lamda
radiator end-fed over a ground plane.

Real-world tests working the Grand Rapids 2M
repeater (.76 ? at the time) from around Battle Creek
with a 1/4 Lamda Motorola silver-button-base
antenna versus a 5/8 Lamda Larsen-brand base-load
(matching section) antenna pointed that out to me ...

Jim

{Original Message removed}

2001\08\03@053458 by asena

picon face
I think that another solution would be to open the LPD's and take the PCB's out.....hehe
Well.... i'll see what my project group say about this.
Thanks though !!!

Sena

> Maxon makes a radio module that I have used to great success.  It is basicly a uhf portable radio that has not been completely stuffed of all parts.
> The transmitter is a complete transceiver minus all receive parts, the receive is just the oposite.  Crystal controlled, up to 5 watts out, FM. Turn
> the power down a bit and run continuous.  I used a set of these to send audio from an announcers console at a race track to a FM broadcast
> transmitter.  It has been used for up to 1 week of continous operation. Cost is low.  At the least, take a couple of cheap vhf or uhf walkie talkies,
> any brand and get out the cutters and screwdrivers. You can even get a license for a legal freq to operate on with type accepted equipment. > From:



*********************************************************
Antonio Sergio Sena     CT2GPW
TakeThisOuTasenaEraseMEspamspam_OUTbigfoot.com

BEng Electrical & Electronic Engineering
Heriot-Watt University - Edinburgh

Homepage: http://www.qsl.net/ct2gpw
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2001\08\03@053511 by asena

picon face
{Quote hidden}

Chris,

I think i'll take a closer look to those Maxon LPD's.

I've seen the ARRL handbooks already, but i want a good syntethized module, and you can mostrly find crystal and transistor TX's.
Not a problem, but i want to change frequency a lot of times.

Nevertheless, thanks for your help, i gave me a new perspective!!

73 Sena, CT2GPW



*********************************************************
Antonio Sergio Sena     CT2GPW
asenaEraseMEspam.....bigfoot.com

BEng Electrical & Electronic Engineering
Heriot-Watt University - Edinburgh

Homepage: http://www.qsl.net/ct2gpw
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2001\08\03@053514 by asena

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Scott,

I've used this modules for telemetry, they are very good. Use them also for audio, setting a voltage offset at the module input. You can get good
audio quality at the other end, especially if you use the 433.93 modules and use you HAM radio to receive it. Wonderful.

But i do not want this modules. I do want real VHF FM and UHF FM HAM band syntethized modules. I've been looking for them in Europe, but
found nothing here. Only found HAMTRONICS in the USA.

Do you have any idea where i can find them here in Europe ??

Thanks
Sena





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*********************************************************
Antonio Sergio Sena     CT2GPW
RemoveMEasenaspam_OUTspamKILLspambigfoot.com

BEng Electrical & Electronic Engineering
Heriot-Watt University - Edinburgh

Homepage: http://www.qsl.net/ct2gpw
*********************************************************

Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address.
This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited
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