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'[EE]: Tilting SLA's'
2001\08\03@132555 by Dan Michaels

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Anyone know if it is allowable to operate an SLA battery
tilted over on its side? What about upside-down?

thanks,
- dan michaels
http://www.oricomtech.com
============================

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2001\08\03@141958 by Paul Hutchinson

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I believe most brands can be used in any position. I believe Panasonic and
PowerSonic brands can be used in any position.

However I think there were some manufacturers with limitations on position
so I recommend you check the manufacturers data sheet for the particular
model you have.

Paul

> Anyone know if it is allowable to operate an SLA battery
> tilted over on its side? What about upside-down?
>

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2001\08\03@151742 by Dan Michaels

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Paul Hutchinson wrote:
>I believe most brands can be used in any position. I believe Panasonic and
>PowerSonic brands can be used in any position.
>
>However I think there were some manufacturers with limitations on position
>so I recommend you check the manufacturers data sheet for the particular
>model you have.
>


Paul, thanks for the response.

This is one of those situations where I was fishing for some input
based upon practical in-field experience ...... "well I did it, and
it blew up and spilled acid all over the leather seats of my new
porsche" ... etc :)

thanks,
- dan michaels
http://www.oricomtech.com
=======================

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2001\08\03@152637 by Chris Carr

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AFAIK a Sealed Lead Acid Battery is a Marketing Term. They are more
accurately described as VRLA (Valve Regulated Lead Acid) The valve is there
for safety reasons (it's supposed to stop the case from bulging when you
subject the battery to an abusive charging regime.

Like most generic terms, manufacturers implementations vary, and whilst one
manufacturer may allow the battery to be tilted, another may not. It's a
case of reading the data sheets........if you can get hold of them. The most
commonly seen "datasheets" are just an extension of the advertising blurb. I
can tell you that the VRLA batteries that NYED supply can be used at any
angle, including upside down, they can also be used completely submerged,
providing the casing is intact. If you do not submerge them then they will
continue working after been shot at by a 12 bore (they will apparently
survive a Magnum 45 but I cannot verify this as handguns have been banned in
the UK and were all handed into the Police. The UK is now totally handgun
free). The manufacturer recommends that you do not charge any of their range
of batteries above 300 Amps. The downsize is that all their batteries are
the same size for Marine, Deep Discharge or vehicle starter (Rufty Tufty
4x4's, HGV's etc).

Have a look at http://www.optimabatteries.com/ .

If you want in-depth information then a good book is the one written by the
team that developed the Optima Battery Design, The Gates Rubber Company, the
book covers both Lead Acid and NiCad design, characteristics,etc. Sorry I
cannot remember the title, as it was borrowed and I haven't seen it since.
No doubt someone out there will help with the title.

Regards

Chris Carr

{Original Message removed}

2001\08\03@161136 by David VanHorn

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At 01:25 PM 8/3/01 -0400, Dan Michaels wrote:
>Anyone know if it is allowable to operate an SLA battery
>tilted over on its side? What about upside-down?

If it's gelled electrolyte, then that's fine.
If it's sealed "low maintainance", you're gonna get wet.
:)

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2001\08\03@194644 by Dale Botkin

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On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Dan Michaels wrote:

> Paul Hutchinson wrote:
> >I believe most brands can be used in any position. I believe Panasonic and
> >PowerSonic brands can be used in any position.
> >
> >However I think there were some manufacturers with limitations on position
> >so I recommend you check the manufacturers data sheet for the particular
> >model you have.
> >
>
>
> Paul, thanks for the response.
>
> This is one of those situations where I was fishing for some input
> based upon practical in-field experience ...... "well I did it, and
> it blew up and spilled acid all over the leather seats of my new
> porsche" ... etc :)

OK... I'd suggest you NOT CHARGE THEM if they're not right side up.  Any
pressure venting WILL spew acid from the caps.  I know.

Dale
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2001\08\03@220616 by Jinx

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> OK... I'd suggest you NOT CHARGE THEM if they're not right side up.
> Any pressure venting WILL spew acid from the caps.  I know.
>
> Dale

Ah-ha !! You "may" have solved a little mystery that's bugged
me for a few days. I was gazing around in the hardware store
and noticed a label on the surveillance camera that said "Do
not rotate more than 70 degrees from vertical". Why ? I
wondered. The staff didn't know. Could it be because it has
an SLA inside ?

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2001\08\03@222901 by Brent Brown

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> > OK... I'd suggest you NOT CHARGE THEM if they're not right side up.
> > Any pressure venting WILL spew acid from the caps.  I know.
> >
> > Dale
>
> Ah-ha !! You "may" have solved a little mystery that's bugged
> me for a few days. I was gazing around in the hardware store
> and noticed a label on the surveillance camera that said "Do
> not rotate more than 70 degrees from vertical". Why ? I
> wondered. The staff didn't know. Could it be because it has
> an SLA inside ?

Well, if your security camera's not on the level, then who can you
trust?


Brent Brown
Electronic Design Solutions
16 English Street
Hamilton, New Zealand
Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069
Mobile/text: 025 334 069
eMail:  @spam@brent.brownKILLspamspamclear.net.nz

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2001\08\03@222918 by Dan Michaels

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DVH wrote:
.....
>>Anyone know if it is allowable to operate an SLA battery
>>tilted over on its side? What about upside-down?
>
>If it's gelled electrolyte, then that's fine.
>If it's sealed "low maintainance", you're gonna get wet.
>:)
>

Dale wrote:
>OK... I'd suggest you NOT CHARGE THEM if they're not right side up.  Any
>pressure venting WILL spew acid from the caps.  I know.


Yeah .... I was thinking about that pressure valve.

6 or 8 NiMH [1500 mAH] are about the same price as a
12v SLA, 2000 mAH.

This is for my little bot -[one day soon]. I can see it now.
Bot drives down the stairs [underside feelers go momentarily
non-responsive], SLA ruptures, coating bot in sulfuric goo.

cheers,
-dan
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2001\08\03@223739 by Dan Michaels

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Brent Brown wrote:
>> > OK... I'd suggest you NOT CHARGE THEM if they're not right side up.
>> > Any pressure venting WILL spew acid from the caps.  I know.
>> >
>> > Dale
>>
>> Ah-ha !! You "may" have solved a little mystery that's bugged
>> me for a few days. I was gazing around in the hardware store
>> and noticed a label on the surveillance camera that said "Do
>> not rotate more than 70 degrees from vertical". Why ? I
>> wondered. The staff didn't know. Could it be because it has
>> an SLA inside ?
>
>Well, if your security camera's not on the level, then who can you
>trust?
>


Speaking of which, in the recent movie "The Score", they
went to a lot of bloomin' trouble to fool the guys what
was watching the security cams in the treasure room.

Seems to me, in today's world, it would be just too durn
easy to build a box chip it quick into the coax, 1 sec job,
snap exactly "1" frame of the treasure room, and repeatedly
send that frame up to the watchers, while the jokers play.

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2001\08\03@223801 by Dale Botkin

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On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, Jinx wrote:

> > OK... I'd suggest you NOT CHARGE THEM if they're not right side up.
> > Any pressure venting WILL spew acid from the caps.  I know.
> >
> > Dale
>
> Ah-ha !! You "may" have solved a little mystery that's bugged
> me for a few days. I was gazing around in the hardware store
> and noticed a label on the surveillance camera that said "Do
> not rotate more than 70 degrees from vertical". Why ? I
> wondered. The staff didn't know. Could it be because it has
> an SLA inside ?

Could very well be.  Either that or they figure any more than that and the
security droid will get a crick in his neck trying to watch it - you never
know what you'll get sued for!  8-)

Dale
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2001\08\04@044319 by Peter L. Peres

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Dan, most SLAs do not care about which side they are lying on. Try to get
the manufacturer's recommendations. If in doubt do not put on side or
upside down. For short periods of time nothing will happen but in time
condensation and other effects may remove the electrolyte from the porous
membrane and make a liquid pool on something that will corrode. Not to
mention the reduction in capacity and the fact that the liquid pool will
cause liquid acid to seep out through the valve seal when the battery is
next heated by use or charging.

Peter

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2001\08\04@044808 by Peter L. Peres

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> and noticed a label on the surveillance camera that said "Do
> not rotate more than 70 degrees from vertical". Why ? I
> wondered. The staff didn't know. Could it be because it has
> an SLA inside ?

Other reasons include mechanical problems (i.e. you can rotate it past 70
deg only once - crack ! - oops), and heat distribution problems. Many
fanless medium power devices rely on the way they are supposed to be set
up to remove heat by convection. Change this and there may be a large
molten plastic blob waiting for you after a long hot weekend.

Peter

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2001\08\04@052558 by Roman Black

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Dale Botkin wrote:

> >
> > This is one of those situations where I was fishing for some input
> > based upon practical in-field experience ...... "well I did it, and
> > it blew up and spilled acid all over the leather seats of my new
> > porsche" ... etc :)
>
> OK... I'd suggest you NOT CHARGE THEM if they're not right side up.  Any
> pressure venting WILL spew acid from the caps.  I know.


Important! Most of the "electronics" style SLAs
have a very low max charging current, this is an
important spec and often written on the battery.
Exceeding this charging current is very bad for
the battery and it's life expectancy. If possible
use a constant current battery charger.
-Roman

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2001\08\04@053420 by Roman Black

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Dale Botkin wrote:

> > Ah-ha !! You "may" have solved a little mystery that's bugged
> > me for a few days. I was gazing around in the hardware store
> > and noticed a label on the surveillance camera that said "Do
> > not rotate more than 70 degrees from vertical". Why ? I
> > wondered. The staff didn't know. Could it be because it has
> > an SLA inside ?


Tha pan/tilt motors are weak and rely on the balance
of the camera weight. :o)
-Roman

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2001\08\04@095708 by mike

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On Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:09:20 -0500, you wrote:

>At 01:25 PM 8/3/01 -0400, Dan Michaels wrote:
>>Anyone know if it is allowable to operate an SLA battery
>>tilted over on its side? What about upside-down?
>
>If it's gelled electrolyte, then that's fine.
>If it's sealed "low maintainance", you're gonna get wet.
Look at the manufacturer's data - the usual restriction is anything
except upside down - this is probly mostly due to the design of the
safety gas release vent, i.e. it will probably _work_ upside down ,
but be less than pretty if you abuse the battery.

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2001\08\04@095713 by mike

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On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 19:24:43 +1000, you wrote:

>Dale Botkin wrote:
>
>> >
>> > This is one of those situations where I was fishing for some input
>> > based upon practical in-field experience ...... "well I did it, and
>> > it blew up and spilled acid all over the leather seats of my new
>> > porsche" ... etc :)
>>
>> OK... I'd suggest you NOT CHARGE THEM if they're not right side up.  Any
>> pressure venting WILL spew acid from the caps.  I know.
>
>
>Important! Most of the "electronics" style SLAs
>have a very low max charging current, this is an
>important spec and often written on the battery.
>Exceeding this charging current is very bad for
>the battery and it's life expectancy. If possible
>use a constant current battery charger.
>-Roman
I think the 'official' spec is often current-limited constant voltage
rather than constant current

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2001\08\04@123103 by Roman Black

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Mike Harrison wrote:

> >Important! Most of the "electronics" style SLAs
> >have a very low max charging current, this is an
> >important spec and often written on the battery.
> >Exceeding this charging current is very bad for
> >the battery and it's life expectancy. If possible
> >use a constant current battery charger.

> I think the 'official' spec is often current-limited constant voltage
> rather than constant current


Most of the new SLA batteries have a "initial current"
spec, usually written on the battery. This is about 25%
of the capacity, so a 10A/h battery has initial current
2.5A, etc. This is the MAX current that you can use to
charge the battery.
-Roman

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2001\08\04@130611 by Chris Carr

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> Mike Harrison wrote:
>
> > >Important! Most of the "electronics" style SLAs
> > >have a very low max charging current, this is an
> > >important spec and often written on the battery.
> > >Exceeding this charging current is very bad for
> > >the battery and it's life expectancy. If possible
> > >use a constant current battery charger.
>
> > I think the 'official' spec is often current-limited constant voltage
> > rather than constant current
>
>
> Most of the new SLA batteries have a "initial current"
> spec, usually written on the battery. This is about 25%
> of the capacity, so a 10A/h battery has initial current
> 2.5A, etc. This is the MAX current that you can use to
> charge the battery.
> -Roman
>
Quality SLA Battery Chargers are three stage chargers

Stage one - The battery is charged at a constant current until the battery
terminal voltage reaches a predetermined voltage (manufacturer and
temperature controlled).

Stage two - The battery continues to be charged at that constant voltage
until the current tails off to the float current.

Stage Three - The float current is maintained.

An incorrect charging regime will cause the valves to open as the gasses
will be unable to re-combine faster than the generation rate. Acid soaked
glass mat batteries are better in this regard and allow faster charge rates
as the gasses permeate through the matting faster than they can through gel.
Venting can be considered a terminal condition.

Regards

Chris Carr

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2001\08\06@043353 by Alan B. Pearce

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>This is for my little bot -[one day soon]. I can see it now.
>Bot drives down the stairs [underside feelers go momentarily
>non-responsive], SLA ruptures, coating bot in sulfuric goo.

Worse still you get into Trouble and Strife with the Trouble and Strife for
the acid burn on the carpet :)

For those not in the know, "Trouble and Strife" is cockney rhyming slang for
"wife"

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