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'[EE]: TDA5051A'
2000\09\15@061933 by Francois Robbertze

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What is typical the max distance that a TDA5051A home automation modem can
be use to send data from one point to another...

What is the dependencies?
- thickness of wire?
- complexity of wires?

Can someone help?

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2000\09\15@134734 by w. v. ooijen / f. hanneman

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What I heard the distance is almost never a problem, but in some countries
parts of the same house can be powered from different phases of the mains.
That surely is a problem!
Wouter

----------
> From: Francois Robbertze <spam_OUTfr10TakeThisOuTspamPIXIE.CO.ZA>
> To: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [EE]: TDA5051A
> Date: Friday, September 15, 2000 12:30
>
> What is typical the max distance that a TDA5051A home automation modem
can
{Quote hidden}

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2000\09\15@145954 by M. Adam Davis

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This depends mainly on line noise.  I haven't had any experience with this
particular chip, but power line modems in general will cover an entire house,
and some can cover entire buildings.  The way you develop your circuit has a big
impact on how far the signal will go.

The two items to be aware of:  utility transformers generally muddle the signal
enough that you generally aren't going to see your neighbor's signals.  Second,
in the US and  some other countries you have split phase power coming into the
house.  This means that you have two different 120VAC lines which are 180
degrees out of phase with each other, and are only connected electrically in
220v appliances and at the utility transformer.  Unless you leave your stove on,
the chances are low that signals placed on one line will go to the other.
You'll need to develop a signal coupler to transfer the signal from one line to
the other and vice versa.

I live in a condo, with 6 units in one building.  It doesn't appear that my
neighbors notice my signals, and I only get a few spurious signals on some x-10
channels.  However the signals travel on both lines enough to work well, so your
mileage may vary.

-Adam

Francois Robbertze wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2000\09\15@155426 by Bob Ammerman

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----- Original Message -----
From: w. v. ooijen / f. hanneman <wfspamKILLspamXS4ALL.NL>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]: TDA5051A


> What I heard the distance is almost never a problem, but in some countries
> parts of the same house can be powered from different phases of the mains.
> That surely is a problem!
> Wouter

Haven't I seen a way to get around this by coupling the carrier current
signal from phase to phase with an appropriate capacitor?

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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2000\09\16@013057 by Tsvetan Usunov

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> What I heard the distance is almost never a problem, but in some
countries
> parts of the same house can be powered from different phases of the
mains.
> That surely is a problem!

The distance in power line communication is ever problem!
It's not the same if your power line communication equipment is connected
at your home or in machine tooling shop where 12kW electric motors running
near by.
Even in your home it's not the same if to the power line is you switched on
only your lighting or your water heaters (down to 4 ohm active resistance),
gourmet (down to 6 ohm), and everything this is in parallel!

> >
> > What is typical the max distance that a TDA5051A home automation modem
> can
> > be use to send data from one point to another...
> >
> > What is the dependencies?
> > - thickness of wire?
> > - complexity of wires?
> >

IMPEDANCE and the NOISE level in your line.

Check Philips datasheets there are given the output levels at given line
impedance, the receiver sensitivity, S/N ration etc.

The same equipment may run well at 100 meters in one conditions and
couldn't establish communication at 10 meters at other conditions of the
power line.

Cheers
Tsvetan
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2000\09\16@080919 by Peter L. Peres

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>range

With all carrier current schemes there is legal limit to how much RF you
can put into the power wires. This and the line impedance (caused by
consumers), and the cheapness of the receiver filter (which affects S/N
ratio) will limit the range. Heating appliances (especially smaller ones,
as in household goods - see lower inductance of wire-wound heaters), will
do the control signal in very quick. A 2000W space heater can kill carrier
current comms on its phase completely if within 5 meters (of wire) of
transmitter or receiver. The heater appears as a 22 ohm resistor across
the power wires. Normally you can reach 30 meters or more in a house
without too much interference (wire-wise 30 meters - that's about 2 rooms
away depending on construction and wiring). In quiet conditions it might
work to 100m or more.

On the other hand, if cheap appliances with(out) sufficient EMI
suppression are used in the house you will likely have surprises.
Arcing/sparking 'universal' motors and ignitors lead the pack here afaik,
followed by some types of triac dimmers.

You can always boost the transmitter a little and use a better filter
for the receiver ;-)

hope this helps,

Peter

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