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'[EE]: Symbol/proper definition for mAh'
2002\12\18@194039 by Dave Dribin

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I'm dealing with some power estimation spreadsheets that list battery
capacities and circuit current usages.  All these parameters are in
units of mAh (milliamp-hours).  Is there a standard symbol for mAh for
use in data sheets?  Also, what is the proper definition for mAh?

Examples of proper symbols often used in data sheets: "V" is the
symbol for volts, "I" is the symbol for current, "t" is the symbol for
a time period, etc.  Examples of proper definition: "electrical
potential" is the proper definition for volts, "current" is the proper
definition for amperes, "time" is the proper description of seconds,
etc.?  "Capactiy" seems like a good "proper name" from a battery's
point of view: the battery has a capacity of 1000mAh.  But it doesn't
make sense from a circuit's point of view: the circuit has a capacity
of 10mAh.

-Dave

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2002\12\18@194910 by Sid Weaver

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In a message dated 12/18/2002 19:41:04 Eastern Standard Time,
spam_OUTdave-mlTakeThisOuTspamDRIBIN.ORG writes:


> But it doesn't
> make sense from a circuit's point of view: the circuit has a capacity
> of 10mAh.
>

A circuit doesn't have a "capacity".  It has a "capability".
Sid Weaver
W4EKQ
Port Richey, FL

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2002\12\18@203121 by Dave Dribin

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On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 07:47:10PM -0500, Sid Weaver wrote:
> In a message dated 12/18/2002 19:41:04 Eastern Standard Time,
> .....dave-mlKILLspamspam@spam@DRIBIN.ORG writes:
>
>
> > But it doesn't
> > make sense from a circuit's point of view: the circuit has a capacity
> > of 10mAh.
> >
>
> A circuit doesn't have a "capacity".

Right...

> It has a "capability".

I like that.  I was thinking something along the lines "current
drain", "current draw", or "current usage".  But "circuit capability"
has a nice ring to it. :) Thanks.

Maybe I'm being too anal.  I just want other people to understand the
doc after I've written it.

-Dave

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2002\12\19@012130 by Russell McMahon

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> I like that.  I was thinking something along the lines "current
> drain", "current draw", or "current usage".  But "circuit capability"
> has a nice ring to it. :) Thanks.
>
> Maybe I'm being too anal.  I just want other people to understand the
> doc after I've written it.

Current     drain / draw / usage    I would understand.
Capability may be what it  has but I would never consider putting it in a
manual if I wanted to be clearly understood.
But, that's just me.


       RM

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2002\12\19@014349 by Quentin

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What about "rating" or "rate"?
The battery is rated to deliver 10mAh. The rating of the battery is 10mAh.
Just a thought, I hate writting manuals, hehe.
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2002\12\19@063040 by Roman Black

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Dave Dribin wrote:

> I'm dealing with some power estimation spreadsheets that list battery
> capacities and circuit current usages.  All these parameters are in
> units of mAh (milliamp-hours).  Is there a standard symbol for mAh for
> use in data sheets?  Also, what is the proper definition for mAh?

> Maybe I'm being too anal.  I just want other people to understand the
> doc after I've written it.


You might want to include the rest of the data
for the mAh rating, ideally this "capacity" figure
is measured at a specific discharge period, usually
10 hours. Some manufacturers specify it at 20 hours,
which makes it look like a larger capacity battery.
That period is vital to understanding the capacity
and the mAh rating must be derated significantly
for shorter periods (higher current). The mAh spec
may also require a temperature etc. :o)
-Roman

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2002\12\19@092113 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 06:39 PM 12/18/02 -0600, you wrote:


>  But it doesn't
>make sense from a circuit's point of view: the circuit has a capacity
>of 10mAh.

That makes no sense.. the circuit may draw 10mA, in which case a battery
with a capacity of 10mAh (at 10mA) will power it for an hour. A battery
with double the capacity will power it for twice as long.

If there was a timer in there, or some other kind of pathological case,
well, you'd say the circuit has a "requirement" of 10mAh.

When capacity > requirement you have a good situation, when capacity
< requirement you have an unsatisfactory situation (PIC quits too soon,
divorce, whatever).

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
.....speffKILLspamspam.....interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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2002\12\19@092735 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 07:29 PM 12/18/02 -0600, you wrote:


>I like that.  I was thinking something along the lines "current
>drain", "current draw", or "current usage".  But "circuit capability"
>has a nice ring to it. :) Thanks.

I don't like it. A PIC port pin has a "capability" of 25mA (say), but
does not generally have such a requirement.

>Maybe I'm being too anal.  I just want other people to understand the
>doc after I've written it.

A worthwhile goal, and often not an easy one to achieve.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
EraseMEspeffspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTinterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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2002\12\19@103807 by Dave Dribin

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On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 08:17:02AM -0500, Olin Lathrop wrote:
> > I just want other people to understand the
> > doc after I've written it.
>
> Then stop making up your own terms and stick to what is customarily done.

Right.  That was the point of the question, as I did not know what is
customerily done.  Sorry for asking it in an awkward fashion.  I think
I'll stick with "current usage".

-Dave

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2002\12\19@124519 by Doug Hewett

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The IEEE publishes the following standards.  (However, I have not read either.)


0945-1984 IEEE Recommended Practice for Preferred Metric Units for Use in Electrical and Electronics Science and Technology 1984.

IEEE Std 100­1992, The New IEEE Standard Dictionary of Electrical and Electronics Terms, Fifth Edition, IEEE, 1992. ISBN 1-55937-240-0.

{Original Message removed}

2002\12\19@124534 by Ray Gallant

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Maybe current consumption or requirement.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Spehro Pefhany" <speffspamspam_OUTINTERLOG.COM>
To: <@spam@PICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Symbol/proper definition for mAh


{Quote hidden}

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2002\12\19@131939 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 01:31 PM 12/19/02 -0400, you wrote:
>Maybe current consumption or requirement.

Is the current really consumed? After all, *exactly* the same amount
comes out as goes in..

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
KILLspamspeffKILLspamspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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2002\12\19@143115 by Dwayne Reid

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At 07:18 PM 12/19/02 +1300, Russell McMahon wrote:
> > I like that.  I was thinking something along the lines "current
> > drain", "current draw", or "current usage".  But "circuit capability"
> > has a nice ring to it. :) Thanks.
> >
> > Maybe I'm being too anal.  I just want other people to understand the
> > doc after I've written it.
>
>Current     drain / draw / usage    I would understand.
>Capability may be what it  has but I would never consider putting it in a
>manual if I wanted to be clearly understood.

I use (and have seen used) the term 'current consumption' when referring to
how long a particular battery will operate a given circuit.  You've already
discovered the term for how much energy the battery will supply (capacity,
in Ah or mAh).

The term 'capability' make no sense in this context.  I would associate
that term with something that states how much current a circuit might
supply - not how much it consumes.

dwayne

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2002\12\19@173057 by Lee Jones

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>> But it doesn't make sense from a circuit's point of view:
>> the circuit has a capacity of 10mAh.

That makes no sense _unless_ you include the length of time involved.
For example, a "circuit capacity" of 10 mAh could be a circiut drawing
10 mA for 1 hour  or  50 mA for 12 minutes  or  5 mA for 2 hours.

> I like that.  I was thinking something along the lines "current
> drain", "current draw", or "current usage".  But "circuit capability"
> has a nice ring to it. :) Thanks.
>
> I just want other people to understand the doc after I've written it.

I think listing the circuit current drain is more usefull.  Then
the reader can determine the power budget needed to run the circuit
for a day or a week or a year.
                                               Lee Jones

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2002\12\20@021725 by Doug Hewett

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Glossaries:
http://www.varta.com/eng/navigation/index-knowhow.html

http://www.ecozen.com/batdict1.htm (from India).

{Original Message removed}

2002\12\20@032252 by Roman Black

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Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>
> At 01:31 PM 12/19/02 -0400, you wrote:
> >Maybe current consumption or requirement.
>
> Is the current really consumed? After all, *exactly* the same amount
> comes out as goes in..


Not always, tell that to a TV set 25kV final anode
in humid weather... ;o)
-Roman

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2002\12\20@110835 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 07:15 PM 12/20/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> >
> > At 01:31 PM 12/19/02 -0400, you wrote:
> > >Maybe current consumption or requirement.
> >
> > Is the current really consumed? After all, *exactly* the same amount
> > comes out as goes in..
>
>
>Not always, tell that to a TV set 25kV final anode
>in humid weather... ;o)

Don't tell me where to put my measuring probes and we won't have
any trouble here. ;-)

I was waiting for someone to bring up static charge...

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
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2002\12\20@112022 by Peter L. Peres

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On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

*>I was waiting for someone to bring up static charge...

How about static charge 'stolen' by departing carriers/mass ?

Peter

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