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'[EE]: Smart Cards'
2001\10\16@060848 by David Duffy

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Hi All,
I have an application for a low security access control system. What I
propose is to use 256 byte Smart Cards (correct name?) as electronic
keys to enter rooms internal to a business. This is not a Fort Knox type
application, the customer just wants to limit customer access to the room
that they've paid to use. Has anyone used these type of cards before?
IIRC, they are basically a 256 byte EEPROM with an I2C interface. Farnell
do have the cards & reader frame/contact assembly quite cheaply. The
assembly has a switch which closes when the card is fully inserted into it.
Are there any rules on applying power to the card? Do you have to switch
power on/off when the card is inserted/removed or is the +5V rail always
left applied to the reader contacts? I'm planning to have a PIC in each
reader with a RS485 network to log access from a central PC. The PC
will also program the cards each time with a new access code tied to the
room booking system. The PC will update the reader PIC with the new
code at the same time. Thinking about it, this is more or less like Hotels
use use these days for room access. Any comments welcome.  :-)
Regards...
___________________________________________
David Duffy        Audio Visual Devices P/L
U8, 9-11 Trade St, Cleveland 4163 Australia
Ph: +61 7 38210362   Fax: +61 7 38210281
New Web: http://www.audiovisualdevices.com.au
New email: spam_OUTavdTakeThisOuTspamaudiovisualdevices.com.au
___________________________________________

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2001\10\16@073007 by Ashley Roll

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Hi David,

You should also look at the Dallas iButtons (http://www.ibutton.com) same thing in
a keychain fob (amongst other things) Cheapish, and very easy to interface
with (code available on the net for the 1-wire protocol.)

The all have a unique serial number which is all you really need for a low
security system all the way up to a full RSA encryption system and Java
virtual machine.

Cheers
Ash.

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Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd
http://www.digitalnemesis.com
Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718

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2001\10\16@073423 by Kathy Quinlan

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Ahhhaaaa

Hi David, a subject close to my heart :o)

Ok I have done alot of work in the security industry (I have not yet had a
client use smart cards)

I have researched smart cards, and found in manufacturers literature a lot
of warnings about ESD and card handling ie storage in purses and wallets,
and MTBF, I was not happy with the findings (I am still surprised that we
use them for money). The current trend in contact security devices is the
Dallas Ibuttons (available in Australia from Dallas security products IIRC.
This company are the only people able to sell I button stuff, but be warned
they are pricks, they told me that the demo kits were no longer available
and that they would have to consult their boss who was on holiday before
giving me a few samples, even though if I had a customer letter of intent to
buy 2 million "code devices" over a 10 year period.

I used the web form on the Dallas web site, and 2 kits arrived within 8
weeks ( I thought I had been knocked back as I had no response, and they
suddenly appeared on the front door)


I have not had a chance to play with the dev kits yet (as I have been in
hospital) but I did read the documentation.

One other idea is to use mag swipe cards everyone has (fly buys, Medicare,
bank cards etc) you use track 3 which contains the card number and expiry
date, which is safe and non intrusive. commercial mag stripe readers are
available form inner range security products for about au$30 and it sends
the data out in a serial format.



Regards,

Kat.
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{Original Message removed}

2001\10\16@192213 by David Duffy

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Kathy wrote:
>Ahhhaaaa
>
>Hi David, a subject close to my heart :o)
>
>Ok I have done alot of work in the security industry (I have not yet had a
>client use smart cards)
>
>I have researched smart cards, and found in manufacturers literature a lot
>of warnings about ESD and card handling ie storage in purses and wallets,
>and MTBF, I was not happy with the findings (I am still surprised that we
>use them for money). The current trend in contact security devices is the
>Dallas Ibuttons (available in Australia from Dallas security products IIRC.
>This company are the only people able to sell I button stuff, but be warned
>they are pricks, they told me that the demo kits were no longer available
>and that they would have to consult their boss who was on holiday before
>giving me a few samples, even though if I had a customer letter of intent to
>buy 2 million "code devices" over a 10 year period.

The sample card I have is an i2c device. Farnell call them a Smart Card but
they're simply an 256 byte EEPROM in a card format AFAICT. I don't have
the datasheet for it yet. It's made by Comtech from what Farnell says.
I downloaded some ISO7816 data last night but that seems to be for the
"real" Smart Cards. The Farnell cards are about AU$6 and the contact frame
about AU$15. This is the price range I'm looking for. The system only has
6 rooms that need simple access control.
Regards...

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2001\10\16@203308 by Gennette, Bruce

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I'm interested in this too, but in a slightly different form -
Our staff usually have both hands full when they move from the public to the
private areas through locked doors.  So they have to stop, put down what
they are carrying, unlock and open the door, hold it open with their foot
while picking up what they are carrying and them pass through with the door
closing and locking behind them.

I'm looking for a security tag that can be read when in proximity of the
door so that it will be unlocked when a card comes within (say) 1m.  Then
the staff just have to push through the door.  All the other data collection
and authorisation you want I want too, with the extra complication of
multiple activation (two cards go through at the same time) to sort out.  I
know these exist, but are VERY expensive.

While you're looking for your smart card system I'd appreciate any reports
of proximity activated types you may come across.  Or maybe you will decide
a non-contact system would better suit your application and your research
will compliment mine.  (My research is all voluntary, in my own time, at my
own expense, so it is not progressing very fast).

Bye.

{Original Message removed}

2001\10\16@211043 by Kathy Quinlan

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Hi Bruce,

Yes the system you described is very easy to build, the expensive part is
the pick up head, indala <sp> corp in the USA makes these panels that are
about 3 foot high, 1 foot wide and an inch thick, they have a range of ~18
feet when they are mounted with no ferrous materials around. I used to use
these in carparks, the only problem is to activate the card you need to hold
the card to get the ground plane (the human body acts as the ground plane)

IIRC the readers and the smart electronics are around AU$300 a pair, and the
output is in the industry standard Wigand :o)

Regards,

Kat.

____________________________________________________________________________
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\ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail | Software and Electronic Engineering
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gennette, Bruce" <.....bruce.gennetteKILLspamspam@spam@TAFE.NSW.EDU.AU>
To: <PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Smart Cards


> I'm interested in this too, but in a slightly different form -
> Our staff usually have both hands full when they move from the public to
the
> private areas through locked doors.  So they have to stop, put down what
> they are carrying, unlock and open the door, hold it open with their foot
> while picking up what they are carrying and them pass through with the
door
> closing and locking behind them.
>
> I'm looking for a security tag that can be read when in proximity of the
> door so that it will be unlocked when a card comes within (say) 1m.  Then
> the staff just have to push through the door.  All the other data
collection
> and authorisation you want I want too, with the extra complication of
> multiple activation (two cards go through at the same time) to sort out.
I
> know these exist, but are VERY expensive.
>
> While you're looking for your smart card system I'd appreciate any reports
> of proximity activated types you may come across.  Or maybe you will
decide
> a non-contact system would better suit your application and your research
> will compliment mine.  (My research is all voluntary, in my own time, at
my
> own expense, so it is not progressing very fast).
>
> Bye.
>
> {Original Message removed}

2001\10\16@211505 by Josh Koffman

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IF you're looking for ultimate low cost, you might consider something
based on infrared. I saw webpage once (I think i followed a link from
the stepper motor section of epanorama...go figure) where a guy built a
small IR transmitter and a reciever attached to his computer. He wore
the transmitter as a badge, and whenever he left his computer (or faced
away) his computer locked itself. When he came back, it unlocked,
automagically :) If you made a few transmitters with differing pulse
trains, you could read the code with a cheap reciever, then use a
computer even running a qbasic program to interpret, unlock, and log.
You might even be able to do the interpret and unlock in a PIC, and then
just have an ascii out to a computer for logging. Plus you should be
able to read the codes of two people as they went by.

Just an idea,

Josh Koffman

"Gennette, Bruce" wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2001\10\17@043539 by dr. Imre Bartfai

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Hi,

some ideas for this:

1. All phone cards have an unique identity number. They can be read even
if the card is exhausted. I have built an entry system using this
idea. Drawback: the application should be capable the identity of all
cards which allowed to access. I used a 24LC256 for it, and used a simple
DBMS. It fits in a 8k PIC.

2. Dallas offers also her iButtons integrated into a ring such way the
user who wants to enter don't need to release things she
carries. Drawback: the holding jewel is not a bargain...

3. I have a proprietary idea which I would not tell for obvious reasons,
only refer to it: I used an add-on button for the persons to be
controlled. A 2-k PIC (even a 16F84) can hold the software with this
clever trick. The security can not be compromised even if a particular
iButton goes lost (more only in private e-mail).

Regards,
Imre

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On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Gennette, Bruce wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2001\10\17@121042 by Alan B. Pearce

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>One other idea is to use mag swipe cards everyone has (fly buys, Medicare,
>bank cards etc) you use track 3 which contains the card number and expiry
>date, which is safe and non intrusive. commercial mag stripe readers are
>available form inner range security products for about au$30 and it sends
>the data out in a serial format.

I guess you are looking for a real cheap solution so it does not matter if
the cards do not come back.

One scheme I have seen used was for room registration in a Youth Hostel,
where your "card" was a heavy paper ticket printed with a bar code. There
was a barcode reader associated with a block of about 4 or 5 doors, and
inserting the card released a security door style magnetic lock. The barcode
was associated with an expiry time in the computer booking system, so you
were automatically "booked out" when it expired.

The disadvantage is that all the doors and readers need wiring back to some
central computing system, but I suspect you were looking at that anyway if
looking into smart cards.

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2001\10\17@121441 by dvanced Technika

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David,

I've played around a bit with these cards but find that they fail after a
while due to 'dirty contacts'. I don't mistreat them at all but it seems
that after repetitive insertion/removal they gunk up. A good hard wipe fixes
the problem most of the time but i still think it's a pain. So i would treat
them as suitable for a limited number of uses if no maintenance is required.

That said, i've been thinking of using these for a few projects but that
price (Farnell AU$6 each, have found them for US$1.50 in bulk quantities)
made me think twice for any decent volume job. Does anyone know of any
cheaper sources (Aust or abroad) for these?

Regards, Kresho.

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2001\10\17@122114 by Roman Black

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Alan B. Pearce wrote:

> One scheme I have seen used was for room registration in a Youth Hostel,
> where your "card" was a heavy paper ticket printed with a bar code. There
> was a barcode reader associated with a block of about 4 or 5 doors, and
> inserting the card released a security door style magnetic lock. The barcode
> was associated with an expiry time in the computer booking system, so you
> were automatically "booked out" when it expired.


Ha ha! Did any of the smarter youths realise
they could photocopy their friend's barcode??
That's one high security system they had there.
;o)
-Roman

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2001\10\17@155832 by Amaury Jacquot

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another solution is to use used smart card phone card...
They usually have a unique serial number

On Wed, 2001-10-17 at 18:09, Alan B. Pearce wrote:
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2001\10\18@045657 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Ha ha! Did any of the smarter youths realise
>they could photocopy their friend's barcode??
>That's one high security system they had there.

Well this was in a youth hostel, and used for room cards. The life of a card
was only a couple of days.

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'[EE]: Smart Cards'
2001\11\03@120036 by M. Adam Davis
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There are tons of security companies that use RFID cards.  You can get
an RFID starter kit from Microchip which, IIRC, has a few cards?

At any rate, people at ford kept these in their planners, or in a back
pocket.  The readers were just above belt level, so they'd pass their
planner close to it, or shimmy their rear end past it (which looked
pretty funny) and the doors would unlock.

Of course, you really should consider getting your staff a few small
rolling carts.  You'll be glad you did.

-Adam

Gennette, Bruce wrote:

{Quote hidden}

>{Original Message removed}

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