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'[EE]: Ranking of programming languages'
2008\04\25@111128 by Marcel Duchamp

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Slashdot pointed to this site this morning:

http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

wherein they attempt to rank usage and popularity of programming
languages.  Note that assembly language was exclueded because they say
it has been defined to "have a very different nature."

I don't get out enough to have a good perspective on these things but it
did surprise me to see Visual Basic doing so well.

Never having heard of Tiobe, I don't know if they receive benefit from
skewing the results of their survey.

Print their results out and hang on the wall.  Get favorite beverage and
some nice darts.  Make up your own chart.

2008\04\25@114231 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> wherein they attempt to rank usage and popularity of programming
> languages.  Note that assembly language was exclueded because they say
> it has been defined to "have a very different nature."

Rofl, ABC is still mentioned! (It is a long-deceased predecessor of
Python). But where is Jal?

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2008\04\25@115111 by Shawn Tan

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On Friday 25 April 2008 16:10:23 Marcel Duchamp wrote:
> wherein they attempt to rank usage and popularity of programming
> languages.  Note that assembly language was exclueded because they say
> it has been defined to "have a very different nature."

And they've got Verilog + VHDL listed as programming languages?? Something
must be wrong with the list.

--
with metta,
Shawn Tan

Aeste Works (M) Sdn Bhd - Engineering Elegance
http://www.aeste.net

2008\04\25@121150 by Walter Banks

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It is all in who you ask. Lots of holes in this survey.

w..


Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\04\25@124550 by Bob Axtell

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Walter Banks wrote:
> It is all in who you ask. Lots of holes in this survey.
>
> w..
>
>  

I was a Delphi enthusiast for years, then dropped it when Borland
stopped supporting it.
Any now it is growing and rising in popularity? There are holes indeed.

--Bob A

2008\04\25@125613 by Tony Smith

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> Slashdot pointed to this site this morning:
>
> www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
>
> wherein they attempt to rank usage and popularity of
> programming languages.  Note that assembly language was
> exclueded because they say it has been defined to "have a
> very different nature."
>
> I don't get out enough to have a good perspective on these
> things but it did surprise me to see Visual Basic doing so well.
>
> Never having heard of Tiobe, I don't know if they receive
> benefit from skewing the results of their survey.


They don't really explain where they get their data from, except 'Google'.
I suppose $1500 might answer that question.

That's all very nice, but most businesses tend not to have blogs where they
describe what language they feel like trying out this week.  You only get
what people are talking about, not what they use.

I'm surprised VB (in it's various flavours) is third, normally it's ranked
first, since almost everyone uses it.  They may not be happy about it,
and/or tend not to mention it which makes it a bit hard to count.

It's a bit like sites that do rankings based on jobs ads, which are skewed
by headhunters jamming every buzzword possible into the ad.  Y'know, the
'must have Java, C, TCL, ADA' for data entry positions.

Tony

2008\04\25@151541 by Timothy Weber

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Bob Axtell wrote:
> I was a Delphi enthusiast for years, then dropped it when Borland
> stopped supporting it.
> Any now it is growing and rising in popularity? There are holes indeed.

It's now spun off to CodeGear (headed up by ol' Michael Intersimone I
believe), who are (claiming to) bring back the emphasis on programming
tools that made Borland great.
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2008\04\25@161948 by Herbert Graf

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On Fri, 2008-04-25 at 08:10 -0700, Marcel Duchamp wrote:
> I don't get out enough to have a good perspective on these things but it
> did surprise me to see Visual Basic doing so well.

Hehe, and I'm surprised it wasn't number 1! :) Unfortunately VB is huge
in quite a few areas (can you tell I'm not a fan? :) ).

TTYL

2008\04\25@204831 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Herbert Graf <spam_OUTmailinglist4TakeThisOuTspamfarcite.net> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2008-04-25 at 08:10 -0700, Marcel Duchamp wrote:
> > I don't get out enough to have a good perspective on these things but it
> > did surprise me to see Visual Basic doing so well.
>
> Hehe, and I'm surprised it wasn't number 1! :) Unfortunately VB is huge
> in quite a few areas (can you tell I'm not a fan? :) ).
>

I think it is #1 in some surveys I saw. I am actually surprised to see
C++ doing so badly, consider the large amount of softwares
written in C++ (Microsoft Visual C++ or C++.Net, G++ under
Unix with QT/GTK+/etc).

And because vast embedded MCU programmers do not
even bother to attend the survey so that C is outnumbered
by Java (I understand the number of cell phones do outnumber
PCs and Java is strong there, but the number of other embedded
device will outnumber cell phones by a large margin).

And normally PHP/Perl/Python/Ruby/JavaScript get disproportional
represense because the web developers are more likely to join the
survey.

Xiaofan

2008\04\26@084502 by Ruben Jönsson

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>
> I think it is #1 in some surveys I saw. I am actually surprised to see
> C++ doing so badly, consider the large amount of softwares
> written in C++ (Microsoft Visual C++ or C++.Net, G++ under
> Unix with QT/GTK+/etc).
>


I think many C++ (and MFC) windows programmers got scared and went over to C#
since it seemd that Microsoft did not have any interest in further developing
the C++ area. C++ programmers that migrated from the VC+98 IDE to later
versions of the IDE (Was it VS2000 or 2002?) found that a lot of the features
for C++ programmers had become much worse in that IDE and it seemed like C++
was dropped in favor for the new dot net thing.

It does look better now though, but I think that those who went from C++ to C#
will not go back (unless it is necessary as for driver development and native
code development for example).

I think it is the natural migration path. From Assembler to C, from C to C++
and from C++ to C#. I also think that many VB.NET developers will migrate to C#
when they notice the similarities between the two languages and the extra
benefits from C#. Only future will tell. I think that it was a very smart move
from Microsoft to put all development languages in one IDE and to use a common
unerlaying platform (The dot net CLR).

I also think that cross platform development will become much more important in
the near future as the interest for Linux is growing for "ordinary" people.

/Ruben
http://www.rjjournal.net

==============================
Ruben Jönsson
AB Liros Electronic
Box 9124, 200 39 Malmö, Sweden
TEL INT +46 40142078
FAX INT +46 40947388
.....rubenKILLspamspam@spam@pp.sbbs.se
==============================

2008\04\26@095057 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Ruben Jönsson <rubenspamKILLspampp.sbbs.se> wrote:
>
>  I also think that cross platform development will become much more
> important in the near future as the interest for Linux is growing for
> "ordinary" people.
>

One of my brothers use to program for Windows only with Visual C++
and Visual C++.Net (sound card application software). Now he is
doing cross-platform programming using QT (non-linear video
editing software) since they need to support Linux and Windows.
The development teams still run Windows for normal usage but
compile the code for Linux with a compiler farm.

The other brother works for the telecom industry and normally
program with Java and C++ for the backend processing under
Solaris/Linux Server (no Windows Server for the backend). However
he also mainly uses Windows as the development machine even
though he uses dual-boot Linux sometimes.

But for the automation industry I am in now, I see no sign of
Linux being used in a perceivable scale.

Xiaofan

2008\04\26@105935 by Ruben Jönsson

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>
> But for the automation industry I am in now, I see no sign of
> Linux being used in a perceivable scale.
>

Really? I thought Linux and Windows CE (or perhaps .NET CF) was the major OS in
embedded PC applications. Is this not so?

/Ruben
http://www.rjjournal.net

==============================
Ruben Jönsson
AB Liros Electronic
Box 9124, 200 39 Malmö, Sweden
TEL INT +46 40142078
FAX INT +46 40947388
.....rubenKILLspamspam.....pp.sbbs.se
==============================

2008\04\26@110755 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Ruben Jönsson <EraseMErubenspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTpp.sbbs.se> wrote:
> >
>  > But for the automation industry I am in now, I see no sign of
>  > Linux being used in a perceivable scale.
>  >
>
>  Really? I thought Linux and Windows CE (or perhaps .NET CF) was the major OS in
>  embedded PC applications. Is this not so?
>

Windows CE yes. But I have yet to see any embedded Linux based
PLC (or distributed I/O) from major vendors, even 2nd tier ones.

Xiaofan

2008\04\26@111557 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 11:07 PM, Xiaofan Chen <xiaofancspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Ruben Jönsson <@spam@rubenKILLspamspampp.sbbs.se> wrote:
>  > >
>  >  > But for the automation industry I am in now, I see no sign of
>  >  > Linux being used in a perceivable scale.
>  >  >
>  >
>  >  Really? I thought Linux and Windows CE (or perhaps .NET CF) was the
> > major OS in embedded PC applications. Is this not so?
>  >
>
>  Windows CE yes. But I have yet to see any embedded Linux based
>  PLC (or distributed I/O) from major vendors, even 2nd tier ones.

This does not mean that Linux is not suitable, but I tend to think
this is rather an issue with the realtime performance. And
Windows and Windows CE are still perceived as not stable by
customers with Windows CE being slightly better perceived than
Windows. 2nd tier vendors like Berkoff does use Windows
and Windows CE and seem to do relatively well. But I do not
think they can be an 1st tier vendor any time soon as long
as they use Windows.

But I have to backstep a bit, I think the DCS vendors do
use industrial PC quite a lot but I am less familiar with them.
I am talking more about the PLC side.

Xiaofan

2008\04\26@113028 by Stephen R Phillips

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--- On Sat, 4/26/08, Ruben Jönsson <KILLspamrubenKILLspamspampp.sbbs.se> wrote:

> It does look better now though, but I think that those who
> went from C++ to C#
> will not go back (unless it is necessary as for driver
> development and native
> code development for example).
>
This is called Coerced to be precise.

{Quote hidden}

I might need to point this out C# and .net are NOT languages. This is a common confusion. The idea of it was more secure code, actually it turns out .net has been plagued with vulnerabilities. The point is C# is a variant of C++ not something new. It's also not a migration to anything at all, it's a LIBRARY not anything really new.  It is in fact Visual Basic types rolled into C++ types. Mostly because Microsoft felt a need to merge the base for VB and C++ .NET and C# are the result.


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2008\04\27@034243 by Ruben Jönsson

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> I might need to point this out C# and .net are NOT languages. This is a common
> confusion. The idea of it was more secure code, actually it turns out .net has
> been plagued with vulnerabilities. The point is C# is a variant of C++ not
> something new. It's also not a migration to anything at all, it's a LIBRARY
> not anything really new.  It is in fact Visual Basic types rolled into C++
> types. Mostly because Microsoft felt a need to merge the base for VB and C++
> .NET and C# are the result.
>

With that reasoning C++ is only a variant of C. And C is only a variant of ...

/Ruben
http://www.rjjournal.net


==============================
Ruben Jönsson
AB Liros Electronic
Box 9124, 200 39 Malmö, Sweden
TEL INT +46 40142078
FAX INT +46 40947388
RemoveMErubenTakeThisOuTspampp.sbbs.se
==============================

2008\04\27@035951 by Apptech

face
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>> The point is C# is a variant of C++ not
>> something new.

> With that reasoning C++ is only a variant of C. And C is
> only a variant of ...

BCP


       Russell

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