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'[EE]: PIC data via PC parallel port to screen'
2000\12\30@015455 by Bill Westfield

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>>    Since the parallel IO port is out on
>>   a "distant" (ISA, after all) chip far from the fast busses (ie memory
>>   bus, agp bus), it's probably considerably slower than 15ns (66MHz.)
>
>    Yeah, I know, but the numbers still look good anyway. I think
>    that's a good equation - take "anything", divide it by Win98,
>    and realize a 15:1 slowdown.

Frankly, if I managed to virtualize a port IO routing and have it be
*only* 15 times slower (than a single instruction, after all, even if
it's a particulary slow instruction), I'd be pretty happy with myself.
I mean, there's a whole context switch (twice), instruction
interpretation of some kind, and who knows what else.  (assuming, of
course, that w98 hasnt managed to make it 15x slower WITHOUT
virtualizing it - a scary possibility.)


   Next go around, DOS will cease to exist anyways, and Roman
   will have to retire. Me, I'm moving to the Palm - just think
   of it like the PC before Windows.

The assorted non-Microsoft, open-source OSes that run on PC-type
platforms are rather encouraging.  There's freedos, plus all the linux
variants.  For quite a few applications, you can distribute a single
floppy that contains a substantial linux base plus your application.
Boot time will be a bit slow, but that might not matter...

BillW

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2000\12\30@021818 by Nigel Goodwin

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In message <CMM.0.90.4.978159279.billw@flipper>, William Chops Westfield
<spam_OUTbillwTakeThisOuTspamcisco.com> writes
>The assorted non-Microsoft, open-source OSes that run on PC-type
>platforms are rather encouraging.  There's freedos, plus all the linux
>variants.  For quite a few applications, you can distribute a single
>floppy that contains a substantial linux base plus your application.
>Boot time will be a bit slow, but that might not matter...

We've recently sold a few Internet boxes that plug-in to a TV, I was
interested to see they actually ran LINUX. Being nosey I took the top
off (as I'm sure we all do!), it actually booted from a 'disk drive on a
chip' - I can't remember the exact name, but it was something similar!.
--

Nigel.

       /--------------------------------------------------------------\
       | Nigel Goodwin   | Internet : .....nigelgKILLspamspam@spam@lpilsley.co.uk           |
       | Lower Pilsley   | Web Page : http://www.lpilsley.co.uk       |
       | Chesterfield    | Official site for Shin Ki and New Spirit   |
       | England         |                 Ju Jitsu                   |
       \--------------------------------------------------------------/

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2000\12\30@121021 by Dan Michaels

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BillW wrote:

>The assorted non-Microsoft, open-source OSes that run on PC-type
>platforms are rather encouraging.  There's freedos, plus all the linux
>variants.  For quite a few applications, you can distribute a single
>floppy that contains a substantial linux base plus your application.
>Boot time will be a bit slow, but that might not matter...
>

Problem is, this works for personal use, but the world
[ie, customers] mostly want windose - minor issue of
widespread compatibility.

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2000\12\30@125622 by Scott Newell

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>interpretation of some kind, and who knows what else.  (assuming, of
>course, that w98 hasnt managed to make it 15x slower WITHOUT
>virtualizing it - a scary possibility.)

NT virtualizes the I/O ports, the 9x OSes don't.  The driver DLL for 9x is
most likely just a C wrapper around the in/out instructions.


newell

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2000\12\30@134858 by Nigel Goodwin

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In message <0G6E00HFD5ONLPspamKILLspammta4.rcsntx.swbell.net>, Scott Newell
<.....newellKILLspamspam.....CEI.NET> writes
>NT virtualizes the I/O ports, the 9x OSes don't.  The driver DLL for 9x is
>most likely just a C wrapper around the in/out instructions.

I've no idea if 9x virtualizes or not, but you don't need to use a DLL
at all under 9x, the following Delphi in-line assembler function will
read a byte from a port (it was taken from the SWAG archive).

 function InPort(PortAddr: word): byte;
 assembler; stdcall;
 asm
       mov dx,PortAddr
       in al,dx
 end;

However, as this code is only marginally faster than using an NT
compatible driver DLL, you may as well do so and increase the number of
systems which can run the code!.
--

Nigel.

       /--------------------------------------------------------------\
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       | Chesterfield    | Official site for Shin Ki and New Spirit   |
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2000\12\30@141256 by Wojciech Zabolotny

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On Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 12:10:21PM -0500, Dan Michaels wrote:
> >The assorted non-Microsoft, open-source OSes that run on PC-type
> >platforms are rather encouraging.  There's freedos, plus all the linux
> >variants.  For quite a few applications, you can distribute a single
> >floppy that contains a substantial linux base plus your application.
> >Boot time will be a bit slow, but that might not matter...
> >
>
> Problem is, this works for personal use, but the world
> [ie, customers] mostly want windose - minor issue of
> widespread compatibility.
>
Fortunately, last time Linux becomes a new standard for Open Source
embedded applications. So maybe in a few months customers will require
Linux based devices for the sake of compatibility ;-).
--

                       Regards
                       Wojciech Zabolotny
                       wzabspamspam_OUTise.pw.edu.pl

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2000\12\30@141500 by Wojciech Zabolotny

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On Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 07:17:44AM +0000, Nigel Goodwin wrote:
> In message <CMM.0.90.4.978159279.billw@flipper>, William Chops Westfield
> <@spam@billwKILLspamspamcisco.com> writes
> >The assorted non-Microsoft, open-source OSes that run on PC-type
> >platforms are rather encouraging.  There's freedos, plus all the linux
> >variants.  For quite a few applications, you can distribute a single
> >floppy that contains a substantial linux base plus your application.
> >Boot time will be a bit slow, but that might not matter...
>
> We've recently sold a few Internet boxes that plug-in to a TV, I was
> interested to see they actually ran LINUX. Being nosey I took the top
> off (as I'm sure we all do!), it actually booted from a 'disk drive on a
> chip' - I can't remember the exact name, but it was something similar!.

There is a very nice single board PC equivalent for $200-$400.
It is called MZ104 (or MZ104+ if you need ethernet connectivity),
and may be found at: http://www.tri-m.com. Really great thing!
All the development may be done on plain PC.
Works with Linux, QNX, FreeDOS and other "legacy" OS's like Window$ or DOS.
--
               Regards
               Wojciech Zabolotny
               KILLspamwzabKILLspamspamise.pw.edu.pl

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2000\12\30@160620 by Dan Michaels

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Wojciech Zabolotny wrote:
>On Sat, Dec 30, 2000 at 12:10:21PM -0500, Dan Michaels wrote:
>> >The assorted non-Microsoft, open-source OSes that run on PC-type
>> >platforms are rather encouraging.  There's freedos, plus all the linux
>> >variants.  For quite a few applications, you can distribute a single
>> >floppy that contains a substantial linux base plus your application.
>> >Boot time will be a bit slow, but that might not matter...
>> >
>>
>> Problem is, this works for personal use, but the world
>> [ie, customers] mostly want windose - minor issue of
>> widespread compatibility.
>>
>Fortunately, last time Linux becomes a new standard for Open Source
>embedded applications. So maybe in a few months customers will require
>Linux based devices for the sake of compatibility ;-).
>--

Unfortunately, I should change my statement for say:

"... but the world [ie, customers] mostly want windose, except
for those guys who want the software to run on NT, Linux, MacOS,
Palm, HPLX, WinCE, ..."  [um, what else? :)]

best regards,
- danM

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'[EE]: PIC data via PC parallel port to screen'
2001\01\01@170614 by Bob Ammerman
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>
> NT virtualizes the I/O ports, the 9x OSes don't.  The driver DLL for 9x is
> most likely just a C wrapper around the in/out instructions.
>

9x OSes _DO_ virtualize at least some ports. This allows them to handle such
things as port contention, and DOS applications that write directly to the
printer.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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