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'[EE]: Oscilloscope'
2000\09\22@005646 by Justin Grimm

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Hi all
Is it possible that anyone could scan the gameboy oscilloscope
project in October Elektor magazine for me?
I've ordered the mag but it's going to take at least 2-3 weeks to come.
(They're still waiting for the Sep issue)
Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Justin Grimm
spam_OUTkrmTakeThisOuTspamcoastlink.com.au

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2000\09\22@041637 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Is it possible that anyone could scan the gameboy oscilloscope
>project in October Elektor magazine for me?

The article is in 2 parts. The first part is the general theory of the gameboy, and how the oscilloscope circuit connects into it. It also has the circuit of the oscilloscope boards. The actual construction will be in the second part not published yet.

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2000\09\22@045939 by Simon Nield

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Gameboy oscilloscope... now _that_ sounds like fun! I would love to read that article when you
finally get hold of it Justin.


Regards,
Simon





Justin Grimm <.....eclipseKILLspamspam.....COASTLINK.COM.AU> on 22/09/2000 06:32:14

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cc:    (bcc: Simon Nield/Quantel Research)
Subject:  [EE]: Oscilloscope





Hi all
Is it possible that anyone could scan the gameboy oscilloscope
project in October Elektor magazine for me?
I've ordered the mag but it's going to take at least 2-3 weeks to come.
(They're still waiting for the Sep issue)
Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Justin Grimm
@spam@krmKILLspamspamcoastlink.com.au

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2000\09\25@013131 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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I bought Elektor just for this article, a couple of us in work are keen to
build them. I really hope they are going to do a PCB for this.  The only
downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be published, you
will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them.

For some details on-line go to
http://www-ev.phy.cam.ac.uk/Homepages/Steve/Gameboy/DsoDemo/DsoDemo.htm

The designer has an agreement with Elector so he cannot publish the code.
However, on the website is a demo ROM which can be used on one of several
Gameboy emulators.

Hope this helps.

Mike

> {Original Message removed}

2000\09\25@022232 by Nigel Goodwin

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In message <spamBeGoneDA3A3E91471FD411B8D60000F8B82B3F44FCCFspamBeGonespamzpgtd00e.europe.norte> l.com>, Michael Rigby-Jones <TakeThisOuTmrjonesEraseMEspamspam_OUTNORTELNETWORKS.COM> writes
>I bought Elektor just for this article, a couple of us in work are keen to
>build them. I really hope they are going to do a PCB for this.  The only
>downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be published, you
>will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them.

Yes, Elektor are really bad like that, almost all their software based
projects require the software purchasing - also their PCB's are really
expensive!. When they eventually got an E-mail address I tried asking
them why they don't provide the code to download (like other magazines),
I was told that the authors wouldn't allow it!. Sounds like bullsh*t to
me :-).
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2000\09\25@061903 by mike

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On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:20:11 +0100, you wrote:

>In message <DA3A3E91471FD411B8D60000F8B82B3F44FCCFEraseMEspam.....zpgtd00e.europe.norte> >l.com>, Michael Rigby-Jones <EraseMEmrjonesspamNORTELNETWORKS.COM> writes
>>I bought Elektor just for this article, a couple of us in work are keen to
>>build them. I really hope they are going to do a PCB for this.  The only
>>downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be published, you
>>will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them.
>
>Yes, Elektor are really bad like that, almost all their software based
>projects require the software purchasing - also their PCB's are really
>expensive!. When they eventually got an E-mail address I tried asking
>them why they don't provide the code to download (like other magazines),
>I was told that the authors wouldn't allow it!. Sounds like bullsh*t to
>me :-).
It's probably the only way they can afford to produce such
professional projects and articles. Unlike many other mags, most of
which are not around any more, Elektor have always published
professional and interesting projects, often using recent technology
(well let's forget about that 8086 SBC with 2114 RAMs they published a
couple of years ago). Unless they can make money from things like PCBs
and software it would probably be uneconomic to run the mag at all.
There's no shortage of electronics design work out there (I doubt
many professional PIClisters are twiddling their thumbs waiting for
work to come in), so they have to pay well, or work in conjunction
with commercial kit suppliers to be able to produce high quality
designs. OK they are not always 'optimal' but are streets ahead of the
amateur rubbish  often seen in other mags.
Elektor is one notable exception to my addition to a popular saying,
especially true in the world of computer magazines...

Those that can, do
Those that can't do, teach
Those that can't teach, write magazine articles.

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2000\09\25@145631 by w. v. ooijen / f. hanneman

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> Yes, Elektor are really bad like that, almost all their software based
> projects require the software purchasing - also their PCB's are really
> expensive!. When they eventually got an E-mail address I tried asking
> them why they don't provide the code to download (like other magazines),
> I was told that the authors wouldn't allow it!. Sounds like bullsh*t to
> me :-).

I tried to arrange with Elektuur (dutch version, same company) to have one
of my designs published, but their requirements were too stringent for me.
I had to make the schema and PCB designs (OK) according to their rules
(still fine) with their approved tools (OK if they really wanted that) but
I had to purchase the tools myself (no way). So we did not get to the point
were I wanted to provide my design on the www too...
Wouter

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2000\09\26@072708 by Arthur Brow

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Yes Elektor are always after the money. They done a Basic <sic> board and a
friend of mine bought it and the software. He could not get it to work and
asked me to look at it.
in short the author had a site on the web all software was downloadable
downside it was in German but it worked. different code was used by Elektor.

They allow subscribers to download some software from their site but I think
if you bought their Mag from a shop you should have the same rights.

I never buy their rag sorry Mag anymore.

Regards Art


{Original Message removed}


'[EE]: Oscilloscope'
2000\10\02@071522 by Alan B. Pearce
face picon face
>build them. I really hope they are going to do a PCB for this.  The only
>downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be published, you
>will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them.

As the code is in a 27256 series eprom you should need to buy only one and share the cost among the group of mates all wanting to build it. It does not use any micro on the ROM board that makes the gameboy into an oscilloscope - it uses the gameboy processor as a DSP.

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2000\10\02@071937 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan B. Pearce [SMTP:RemoveMEA.B.Pearcespam_OUTspamKILLspamRL.AC.UK]
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:14 PM
> To:   RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      Re: [EE]: Oscilloscope
>
> >build them. I really hope they are going to do a PCB for this.  The only
> >downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be published,
> you
> >will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them.
>
> As the code is in a 27256 series eprom you should need to buy only one and
> share the cost among the group of mates all wanting to build it. It does
> not use any micro on the ROM board that makes the gameboy into an
> oscilloscope - it uses the gameboy processor as a DSP.
>
We shall have to do this, but that wasn't the point really.  It would have
been nice to have the source if only for the educational value.  Lots of
other mags provide at least a source listing in the mag for short programs
or a (freely) downloadable version on the publishers web site.

Mike

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2000\10\02@072731 by Russell McMahon

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How much is the code to purchase?

I have several possible apps for a gameboy (apart from those intended by
Nintendo which my son would be interested in ;-) ) and this could be the
"killer app" to make them worthwhile.



     Russell McMahon
_____________________________


{Original Message removed}

2000\10\02@074028 by Martin Hill

picon face
Is this code available for free?  If not, then isn't what you are
suggesting just what people complain about everytime somebody
asks how to get around the code protection on a PIC?  Apologies if
I have got the wrong end of the stick.

Martin

{Quote hidden}

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2000\10\02@075507 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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> > >build them. I really hope they are going to do a PCB for this.  The
> only
> > >downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be published,
> you
> > >will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them.
> >
> > As the code is in a 27256 series eprom you should need to buy only one
> and share the cost among the group of mates all wanting to build it. It
> does not use any micro on the ROM board that makes the gameboy into an
> oscilloscope - it uses the gameboy processor as a DSP.
>
>
> {Original Message removed}

2000\10\02@082451 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>How much is the code to purchase?

Do not know yet. The numbers will not be available until the November issue comes out with the second part of the article. You will then be able to order through their website.

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2000\10\02@082905 by Bob Ammerman

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<SOAPBOX>

The question is being avoided:

Can one _legally_ copy that EPROM?

This isn't really a question of morality or Elektor's business practices.

</SOAPBOX>

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Rigby-Jones <KILLspammrjonesspamBeGonespamNORTELNETWORKS.COM>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Oscilloscope


> > > >build them. I really hope they are going to do a PCB for this.  The
> > only
> > > >downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be
published,
> > you
> > > >will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them.
> > >
> > > As the code is in a 27256 series eprom you should need to buy only one
> > and share the cost among the group of mates all wanting to build it. It
> > does not use any micro on the ROM board that makes the gameboy into an
> > oscilloscope - it uses the gameboy processor as a DSP.
> >
> >
> > {Original Message removed}

2000\10\02@084135 by Simon Nield

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cut'n'pasted from the uk elektor website:

--------------------
Gameboy Digital Sampling Oscilloscope (GBDSO)
990082-1 PCB 8.25 16.50
996035-1 disk, DSO Grab and Mathcad demo appl. 8.50 17.00
996528-1 EPROM AT27C256 (PLCC44), programmed 14.00 28.00
990082-C Set: PCB + 996035-1+ 996528-1 27.50 55.00


and:

The Gameboy Digital Sampling Oscilloscope (GBDSO)
is described in the October and November 2000 issues of Elektor Electronics.

To make sure the PCB fits in the space available for game cartridges, we had to resort to SMA
components.
With dexterity, accuracy and good eyesight, these tiny parts can be soldered. The empty PCB,
programmed EPROM
and auxiliary software on disk are available as separate items or as a set through our Readers
Services. The
price of the set (PCB, EPROM and disk) is £27.50 incl. VAT, plus P&P.

However, because not everyone is able and willing to solder SMA parts, we intend to supply
ready-stuffed and
continuity-checked GBDSO boards. These boards contain all the parts soldered in place.
The price is £73.50 each incl. VAT, plus P&P. At 250+ pieces the price will be lower.
--------------------


first price is in UKP second is in USD. No suprise to see that the traditional UKP=USD only works
one way.
it's a bit steep, but not horrific.

pity the local newsagent doesn't stock the magazine...

Regards,
Simon

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2000\10\02@094612 by James Paul

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All,

Does anyone know what the expected or effective bandwidth of this
DSO is? or is supposed to be?   If it is less than 1 Mhz, it really
isn't practical for much of anything except novelty.  If it's >1 Mhz
but less than 50 Mhz, it should be useful for audio and some non
critical higher frequency signals.  Ideally, it would be at least 50
Mhz, but I reaaly doubt that a game machine that costs <$75.00 or so
is going to be able to handle that speed.  Anyway, just curious.

                                              Regards,

                                                Jim




On Mon, 02 October 2000, Bob Ammerman wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> > > {Original Message removed}

2000\10\02@095842 by M. Adam Davis

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It is a 1MSPS device, so the effective bandwidth for analog signals is around
200kHz.

You can check out the specs at:
http://www-ev.phy.cam.ac.uk/Homepages/Steve/Gameboy/DsoDemo/DsoDemo.htm

-Adam

James Paul wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> > > > {Original Message removed}

2000\10\02@175047 by Nigel Goodwin

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In message <.....E13g3w8-0006ke-00spamRemoveMEnottingham.ac.uk>, Martin Hill
<RemoveMEeaxmjhispamspamBeGoneNOTTINGHAM.AC.UK> writes
>Is this code available for free?  If not, then isn't what you are
>suggesting just what people complain about everytime somebody
>asks how to get around the code protection on a PIC?  Apologies if
>I have got the wrong end of the stick.

Perhaps so!. But the EPROM isn't protected at all, and the author isn't
being deprived of anything - according to his website Elektor don't
allow him to distribute his own code, they sell it instead!. I E-mailed
Elektor when they first opened their website about this very issue,
their excuse was that the authors don't allow the code to be
distributed, I considered this totally unlikely, and the website from
the author of the Gameboy scope proves this!.
--

Nigel.

       /--------------------------------------------------------------\
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2000\10\03@083143 by T_BoNe

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Some time ago, I have worked on a similar project, using a 20MS/s ADC and a Gameboy (tested on both
Color and B&W), but I've stopped the project as I coudn't get the analog section to work properly...
I don't have access to the Elektor magazine here in Brazil, but my code is almost finished, can some
kind soul send a scanned copy of the article?
If so, I can make my code to work with this circuit and share with you for *free* :D


Simon Nield wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2000\10\03@225253 by xandinho

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>Some time ago, I have worked on a similar project, using a 20MS/s ADC and a Gameboy (tested on both
>Color and B&W), but I've stopped the project as I coudn't get the analog section to work properly...
>I don't have access to the Elektor magazine here in Brazil, but my code is almost finished, can some
>kind soul send a scanned copy of the article?
>If so, I can make my code to work with this circuit and share with you for *free* :D

       You can find the elekitor magazine here. I find it every month in Livraria Siciliano. You can find a great bunch of imported magazines there - at the price they want. Of course, you can subscribe the magazine - I used to do that with Nuts & Volts.


--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

       All the best!!!
       Alexandre Souza
       @spam@xandinhoRemoveMEspamEraseMEinterlink.com.br

--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

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2000\10\04@031738 by Arthur Brown

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Everyday Practical Electronics are doing a PIC dual-chan virtual scope by
John Becker. October 2000.
Which has been talked about on the list the frequency range is nominal audio
below 1kHz to over 10kHz.
The ram chips used are 32k 75ns, the pic is a 16C877-20 but running at only
5mHz. Jinx I think was talking about using 15n cache chips and what if you
up the speed to 20mHz. could this extend the range to 40-50mHz?

But the point I'm trying to make is the software and code for the PIC is
down loadable from their website http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk plus lots
of other projects like the MicroPICscope design very much like the above but
using PIC16C876-20 still running at 5mHz ;-(... But the display used is a
16x2 line Lcd. showing Waveform pixels, Rate ? Frequency and Amplitude.

This is a Project I will take bits out of a very good learning execise.

Regards Art

----- Original Message -----
From: M. Adam Davis <@spam@adavisspam_OUTspam.....UBASICS.COM>
To: <spamBeGonePICLISTEraseMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Oscilloscope


> It is a 1MSPS device, so the effective bandwidth for analog signals is
around
{Quote hidden}

practices.
{Quote hidden}

The
> > > > > only
> > > > > > >downside is I can almost guarantee that the code will not be
> > > published,
> > > > > you
> > > > > > >will have to buy a pre-programmed eprom from them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As the code is in a 27256 series eprom you should need to buy
only one
> > > > > and share the cost among the group of mates all wanting to build
it. It
> > > > > does not use any micro on the ROM board that makes the gameboy
into an
> > > > > oscilloscope - it uses the gameboy processor as a DSP.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > {Original Message removed}

2000\10\04@123913 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Russell McMahon [SMTP:.....apptech@spam@spamEraseMECLEAR.NET.NZ]
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 12:27 PM
> To:   .....PICLISTRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      Re: [EE]: Oscilloscope
>
> How much is the code to purchase?
>
> I have several possible apps for a gameboy (apart from those intended by
> Nintendo which my son would be interested in ;-) ) and this could be the
> "killer app" to make them worthwhile.
>
>
>
>       Russell McMahon
> _____________________________
>
Don't know yet, it should be listed in next months magazine.  Not sure of
the publishing date, but I'll let you know when I get it.  Just need to get
a PLCC adapter for our Eprom programmer and we should be set.  Probably I'll
make a cheap 'n' nasty version with a standard PLCC socket, and dil header
and lots of bits of wires.  Hmm..sounds like a job for the student on work
experience :o)

Mike

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2000\10\04@130128 by Andrew Kunz

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I use a W/W DIP-40 with a few (7 I think because of power/gnd duplicates) Kynar
wires into a PLCC socket.  Works great for protos only.

Andy









Michael Rigby-Jones <.....mrjonesSTOPspamspam@spam@NORTELNETWORKS.COM> on 10/02/2000 07:31:50 AM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <PICLISTEraseMEspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>








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Subject: Re: [EE]: Oscilloscope








> {Original Message removed}


'[EE]: Oscilloscope'
2001\03\08@164407 by imenez Yamasaki
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   Hi to all:

   Can anybody explain me please what is and how does it work the option
"trigger" in a Oscillospe...

   Thanks in advance...

   Gonzalo

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2001\03\09@032532 by Vasile Surducan

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Trigger is the greatest function a scope may have.
It's sincronize the trace on your signal: on rising edge, on falling edge,
on TV signalls, on dc signals ( these are most common internal triggers )
You may also sincronize your signal with an external one. ( important
at high frequencies or noisy signals )
Without a good trigger you will see an unusefull moving trace...with your
signal on it.
Vasile

On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Gonzalo Jimenez Yamasaki wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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