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'[EE]: Non Polar Electrolytic Capacitor'
2001\01\30@231156 by Alan R Aldaba

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   Hi, I have a trouble finding a replacement part in our area..Does anyone know how to built a non polar electrolytic capacitor from two polar electrolytic capacitors, i need a value of 4.7 uF/ 80 volts to be used in a power amp..I remember reading it elsewhere but I cant remember the details..Thanks

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2001\01\30@232534 by Anand Dhuru

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Hi, the trick is to use TWO polarised caps in Series, connecting EITHER the
2 positives OR the 2 negatives together. Of course, each of the two should
be twice of the desired effective final non-polarised value. The 2 free ends
are the leads of your non-polarised cap.

Your case, u'd require 2 nos of 10uF, 66V caps.

Regards,


Anand
{Original Message removed}

2001\01\30@235948 by bdewitt

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Good way to blow up two polarized capacitors in rapid succession!

bgd

-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Anand Dhuru
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:29 PM
To: PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [EE]: Non Polar Electrolytic Capacitor


Hi, the trick is to use TWO polarised caps in Series, connecting EITHER the
2 positives OR the 2 negatives together. Of course, each of the two should
be twice of the desired effective final non-polarised value. The 2 free ends
are the leads of your non-polarised cap.

Your case, u'd require 2 nos of 10uF, 66V caps.

Regards,


Anand
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan R Aldaba <.....piclistKILLspamspam.....EDSAMAIL.COM.PH>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 09:29 AM
Subject: [EE]: Non Polar Electrolytic Capacitor


>     Hi, I have a trouble finding a replacement part in our area..Does
anyone know how to built a non polar electrolytic capacitor from two polar
electrolytic capacitors, i need a value of 4.7 uF/ 80 volts to be used in a
power amp..I remember reading it elsewhere but I cant remember the
details..Thanks
{Quote hidden}

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2001\01\31@030116 by Vasile Surducan

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Don't even think about it ! ( if you care at your transistors...)
Vasile

On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, Alan R Aldaba wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\01\31@033529 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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You'd probably be better off looking for a non-electrolytic solution.  A
quick check in my RS catalogue shows a 4.7uF 100v polyester film cap for
0.95 uk pounds.

Mike

> {Original Message removed}

2001\01\31@071312 by Russell McMahon

picon face
>     Hi,  I have a trouble finding a replacement part in our area..
>     Does anyone know how to built a non polar electrolytic capacitor
>      from two polar electrolytic capacitors,
>        i need a value of 4.7 uF/ 80 volts to be used in a power amp..
>        I remember reading it elsewhere but I cant remember the details.


1.    While you CAN do this you are probably better off using a range of
various plastic capacitor types at this voltage rating and/or "motor start"
capacitors of about this value but with much higher voltage ratings. Both
these
should work well in your application.

If you MUST use polarised caps, try this.

2.    Connect two capacitors, each of the desired capacitance, positive to
positive.
ACROSS each capacitor connect a diode (one diode for each capacitor) with
the anode connected to the capacitor negative terminal and the cathode
(stripe on diode) connected to the capacitor positive terminal. That is, the
diode will conduct when the REVERSE polarity is applied to the capacitor.

Each capacitor should be the required initial; capacitance and NOT double
the value as would be the case when placing capacitors in series in a normal
way.
In your case use 2 x 4.7 uF caps rated at 100 volts or more.

Leaving out the diodes will destroy the capacitors in a power application.



regards




             Russell McMahon
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2001\01\31@082214 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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{Quote hidden}

I have used this method before, but for audio applications I suspect that
this is a bad idea, the effect of a pair of diodes swithing on and off every
cycle is definately not going to help audio quality.

I strongly suggest either number 1) above or getting the correct replacement
.

Mike

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2001\01\31@093848 by Olin Lathrop

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> 2.    Connect two capacitors, each of the desired capacitance, positive to
> positive.
> ACROSS each capacitor connect a diode (one diode for each capacitor) with
> the anode connected to the capacitor negative terminal and the cathode
> (stripe on diode) connected to the capacitor positive terminal. That is,
the
> diode will conduct when the REVERSE polarity is applied to the capacitor.
>
> Each capacitor should be the required initial; capacitance and NOT double
> the value as would be the case when placing capacitors in series in a
normal
> way.
> In your case use 2 x 4.7 uF caps rated at 100 volts or more.

I don't like this circuit at all because it acts like one capacitor as the
other is charging up, but will act like two capacitors in series once both
have been charged up.  There will also be sudden jumps in the characteristic
as the diodes go off and on.

Note that there is no way for either capacitor to discharge, so eventually
it will act as two capacitors in series with the diodes no longer coming on.
Once that stage is reached, the effective capacitance will be half of either
capacitor.

In short, don't do it this way.


*****************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Devens Massachusetts
(978) 772-3129, RemoveMEolinspam_OUTspamKILLspamembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2001\01\31@172455 by Roman Black

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Did nobody see my original reply to this? :o)

I'll repeat, when I was trained back in the
valve days, it was taught as correct practice
to replace NP caps with two polarised caps
in series, reverse. It was also taught that
that is basically what is inside a NP cap,
and that is why they are 2x bigger physically.
What's more the construction of some of the
earlier NP caps was in fact two cans back to back
with a rubber seal at each end (axial type).
If my memory is not too rusty we disected one
of these in class.

Over the last 20 years TV servicing I have
used this technique hundreds of times in
situations where it was not worth the wait
to order a specialised cap. I have NEVER
had one fail, even in the hot overworked TV
environment and some of these sets are still
owned and used by friends.

Diodes?? Ha ha! You guys are killin' me! ;o)
-Roman



Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:
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2001\01\31@194900 by Alan R Aldaba

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Can I use it safely in a power amp, the part is directly connected to the collector of the output transistor and ground, what function does it serves?
pic microcontroller discussion list wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\01\31@235612 by Anand Dhuru

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Roman, thanks so much for taking up cudgels on my behalf!

Regards,

Anand.

----- Original Message -----
From: Roman Black <EraseMEfastvidspamEraseMEEZY.NET.AU>
To: <@spam@PICLIST@spam@spamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 03:50 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Non Polar Electrolytic Capacitor


{Quote hidden}

amp..
> > > >        I remember reading it elsewhere but I cant remember the
details.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1.    While you CAN do this you are probably better off using a range
of
> > > various plastic capacitor types at this voltage rating and/or "motor
> > > start"
> > > capacitors of about this value but with much higher voltage ratings.
Both
> > > these
> > > should work well in your application.
> > >
> > > If you MUST use polarised caps, try this.
> > >
> > > 2.    Connect two capacitors, each of the desired capacitance,
positive to
> > > positive.
> > > ACROSS each capacitor connect a diode (one diode for each capacitor)
with
> > > the anode connected to the capacitor negative terminal and the cathode
> > > (stripe on diode) connected to the capacitor positive terminal. That
is,
> > > the
> > > diode will conduct when the REVERSE polarity is applied to the
capacitor.
> > >
> > > Each capacitor should be the required initial; capacitance and NOT
double
> > > the value as would be the case when placing capacitors in series in a
> > > normal
> > > way.
> > > In your case use 2 x 4.7 uF caps rated at 100 volts or more.
> > >
> > > Leaving out the diodes will destroy the capacitors in a power
application.
> > >
> > I have used this method before, but for audio applications I suspect
that
> > this is a bad idea, the effect of a pair of diodes swithing on and off
every
> > cycle is definately not going to help audio quality.
> >
> > I strongly suggest either number 1) above or getting the correct
replacement
{Quote hidden}

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'[EE]: Non Polar Electrolytic Capacitor'
2001\02\01@010443 by Jeethu Rao
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I support Anand's method. I've been doing it for quite some time now. I've
done it a couple of times and I never blew away a single capacitor.

Jeethu Rao

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brent DeWitt" <TakeThisOuTbdewittKILLspamspamspamix.netcom.com>
To: <.....PICLISTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Non Polar Electrolytic Capacitor


> Good way to blow up two polarized capacitors in rapid succession!
>
> bgd
>
> {Original Message removed}

2001\02\01@013544 by Roman Black

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Alan R Aldaba wrote:
>
> Can I use it safely in a power amp, the part is directly connected to the collector of the output transistor and ground, what function does it serves?


I'm not sure what purpose it serves. I am quite
sure you can substitute two 10uF 160v caps
in series reversed. Then run test it carefully,
feel if the caps get warm with no signal, then
with playing loud, etc.

I can't guarantee it will work, but I would
do it. :o)
-Roman



> >> > >     Hi,  I have a trouble finding a replacement part in our area..
> >> > >     Does anyone know how to built a non polar electrolytic capacitor
> >> > >      from two polar electrolytic capacitors,
> >> > >        i need a value of 4.7 uF/ 80 volts to be used in a power amp..
> >> > >        I remember reading it elsewhere but I cant remember the details.

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2001\02\01@150602 by Oliver Broad

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I was under the impression you could connect two caps of twice the value in
series back to back. IMPORTANT: though I'm sure I've seen this in designs I
haven't used it myself.

Since the caps leak in the reverse direction this weak
diode action should create a DC potential at the common point large enough
to keep both caps polarised correctly. I guess this means the voltage rating
must be greater than the peak to peak AC voltage developed across the caps.
If this is just a DC block that should be small, but if this is part of a
loudspeaker
crossover network then the voltage could be big.


{Original Message removed}

2001\02\02@040221 by Vasile Surducan

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Come on Olin !
We are in 2001, this discussion it was really interesting in '80 when
both of us we had to repair some hybrid TV with vacuum tubes and
transistors. Remember PL500 ?
Now you may found any capacitor you need on every fence...
Respect,
   Vasile

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2001\02\02@161827 by uter van ooijen & floortje hanneman

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> Remember PL500 ?
I have a few of those in the attic. And some 50 others. Anyone interested?
You would do my wife a favour....
Wouter

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