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'[EE]: National COP processors get flash...'
2000\11\04@012839 by Bill Westfield

face picon face
Looks like National Semiconductor is adding flash to their "small
microcontroller" family.  Zilog seems to be the major holdout.  The
"virtual EEPROM" feature looks interesting - as I read the spec sheet,
this basically means that any of the onboard flash (32k in the initial
parts) can be programmed during normal execution, and used to store
data...

BillW


   From: news mail <spam_OUTnewsTakeThisOuTspamnational.com>
   Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 19:32:13 -0800 (PST)

   Dear COP8 customer;

   Announcing National Semiconductor Corporation's COP8FLASH design contest.

   It's your opportunity to turn COP8FLASH's technical advantages - true
   in-system programming, user-allocable, variable size virtual EEPROM, 100%
   accurate onboard analog emulation - into cold, hard cash. To enter, simply
   submit a design idea incorporating COP8FLASH to National Semiconductor
   Corporation by December 31, 2000. With nothing more than an abstract, you
   could win one of 1,000 COP8FLASH development tools (each worth $250). Next,
   develop and send in your design. If it's good enough, you'll take home one
   of the top three prizes: $20,000, $10,000 or $5,000 cash.

   For easy registration and complete contest rules, visit us today at:
   http://www.national.com/cop8flash

   The all new COP8FLASH family is here.

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2000\11\04@013729 by Tim Hamel

picon face
I have good timing! I just ordered a sample from National Semi. Wonder how
they'll compete with PICs? Browsing around their site, I found a programmer
for the COP8 (software included). Also...something handy, you can bounce back
and forth between your program and the bootloader using only two instructions
(one to jump to the boot-rom, and another to jump to flash). Snazzy huh?

Regards,

Tim H.

In a message dated 11/3/00 10:31:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, .....billwKILLspamspam@spam@CISCO.COM
writes:


> Looks like National Semiconductor is adding flash to their "small
> microcontroller" family.  Zilog seems to be the major holdout.  The
> "virtual EEPROM" feature looks interesting - as I read the spec sheet,
> this basically means that any of the onboard flash (32k in the initial
> parts) can be programmed during normal execution, and used to store
> data...
>
> BillW
>

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2000\11\04@063726 by Andy Howard

picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Chops Westfield" <billwspamKILLspamCISCO.COM>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 6:28 AM
Subject: [EE]: National COP processors get flash...


{Quote hidden}

contest.
>
>     It's your opportunity to turn COP8FLASH's technical advantages - true
>     in-system programming, user-allocable, variable size virtual EEPROM,
100%
>     accurate onboard analog emulation - into cold, hard cash. To enter,
simply
>     submit a design idea incorporating COP8FLASH to National Semiconductor
>     Corporation by December 31, 2000. With nothing more than an abstract,
you
>     could win one of 1,000 COP8FLASH development tools (each worth $250).
Next,
>     develop and send in your design. If it's good enough, you'll take home
one
>     of the top three prizes: $20,000, $10,000 or $5,000 cash.
>
>     For easy registration and complete contest rules, visit us today at:
>     http://www.national.com/cop8flash
>
>     The all new COP8FLASH family is here.


This seems a little worrying though:

"...By participating in the Contest, Contestant waives and/or transfers all
claims to intellectual property rights in submitted entries, including
without limitation patent rights and copyright, and waives all common law
and moral rights, and all other rights derivative therefrom, except where
prohibited..."

That's not just the winning entries - it applies to all entries.
Does it seem a little unreasonable that you would be unable to use the
design yourself if it's unsuccessfully entered in the competition? Or is
this a normal condition of these things?







.

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2000\11\04@065024 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
Andy Howard <PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> "...By participating in the Contest, Contestant waives and/or
> transfers all claims to intellectual property rights in submitted
> entries, including without limitation patent rights and copyright,
> and waives all common law and moral rights, and all other rights
> derivative therefrom, except where prohibited..."
>
> That's not just the winning entries - it applies to all entries.
> Does it seem a little unreasonable that you would be unable to use
> the design yourself if it's unsuccessfully entered in the
> competition? Or is this a normal condition of these things?

Andy:

No, that's not the way it normally works.

Even the Microchip/Circuit Cellar contest of a few years ago didn't
work like that; entrants had to allow their designs to be published
once in Circuit Cellar Magazine, but beyond that, ownership of the
design stayed with the designer.  As I recall, in fact, those of us
who judged that contest signed rather strict non-disclosure
agreements covering OUR use of the submitted designs.

I wouldn't enter a design contest with rules like National's... But
it's a moot point, since the COP8 development tools are so bad that I
wouldn't design National's parts into anything (again), anyway.

-Andy


=== Andrew Warren - @spam@fastfwdKILLspamspamix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - San Diego, California
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

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2000\11\04@101915 by Andy Howard

picon face
{Quote hidden}

That's much more reasonable - an article about the design isn't much to ask.
I could even imagine non-exclusively licencing the design in return for the
prize perhaps, but being required to give away all ownership as a condition
of entry does seem a little greedy.


> As I recall, in fact, those of us
> who judged that contest signed rather strict non-disclosure
> agreements covering OUR use of the submitted designs.

Sensible arrangement, not that you're likely to anyway, but it does make the
entrants feel more secure I'm sure.

> I wouldn't enter a design contest with rules like National's... But
> it's a moot point, since the COP8 development tools are so bad that I
> wouldn't design National's parts into anything (again), anyway.

Ah, thanks for the tip-off.


Cheers,

Andy.











.

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2000\11\04@111842 by mike

flavicon
face
On Sat, 4 Nov 2000 03:52:03 -0800, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

... but I'm sure most of us could quickly invent an application just
to get hold of a free devtool, if we wanted one......

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2000\11\04@115424 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
At 11:31 AM 11/4/00 -0000, you wrote:

>This seems a little worrying though:
>
>"...By participating in the Contest, Contestant waives and/or transfers all
>claims to intellectual property rights in submitted entries, including
>without limitation patent rights and copyright, and waives all common law
>and moral rights, and all other rights derivative therefrom, except where
>prohibited..."

>That's not just the winning entries - it applies to all entries.
>Does it seem a little unreasonable that you would be unable to use the
>design yourself if it's unsuccessfully entered in the competition? Or is
>this a normal condition of these things?

Not normal, sounds like the idiot lawyers got ahold of it, rather than
someone with some sense.

Suggest everyone who is interested e-mail the company and
object to this. It is not reasonable.

Best regards,

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
TakeThisOuTspeffEraseMEspamspam_OUTinterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
Contributions invited->The AVR-gcc FAQ is at: http://www.bluecollarlinux.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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2000\11\04@190248 by Andy Howard

picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: "Spehro Pefhany" <RemoveMEspeffspamTakeThisOuTINTERLOG.COM>
To: <PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]: National COP processors get flash...




{Quote hidden}

http://wwwd.national.com/feedback/  is the place I posted a comment.
Couldn't find a suitable looking email address but the form above seems to
cover it.

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'[EE]: National COP processors get flash...'
2000\12\05@192631 by Bill Westfield
face picon face
>> "...By participating in the Contest, Contestant waives and/or
>> transfers all claims to intellectual property rights in submitted
>> entries, including without limitation patent rights and copyright,
>> and waives all common law and moral rights, and all other rights
>> derivative therefrom, except where prohibited..."
>>
>> That's not just the winning entries - it applies to all entries.
>> Does it seem a little unreasonable that you would be unable to use
>> the design yourself if it's unsuccessfully entered in the
>> competition? Or is this a normal condition of these things?

>I wouldn't enter a design contest with rules like National's... But
>it's a moot point, since the COP8 development tools are so bad that I
>wouldn't design National's parts into anything (again), anyway.

Remember this discussion?  It looks like National has changed that part
of their rules to much more reasonable terms...

BillW

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