Post by thread:[EE]: My first PCB

So, I'm just about ready to have my first PCB made for a small sensor product that I'll be selling from my personal website. I've read everything on the Olimex website, and think that I've got an understanding of what they expect and some common pitfalls. (My board is tiny, so I'm panellizing and have read their comments on that). Anyone else got any tips or experience with Olimex that they'd like to share? Y'know, the sort of thing like "oh, if Olimex are running your boards, do this and don't do that". Also, as it's my first PCB and I'm a little bit strange at the best of times...I was thinking about maybe putting my unique mark on the PCB in someway. Maybe just something funny written on it like "Proudly made in Canada, eh?". Or a shout poem. Or a picture in the silkscreen/soldermask (Sun Microsystems used to put pictures on their early system PCBs!). Anyone want to talk me out of that? :-) TIA. -marc -------------------------------------------------- Marc Nicholas Geekythings Inc. C/416.543.4896 UNIX, Database, Security and Networking Consulting -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

At 11:25 AM 6/12/03 -0400, you wrote: > Maybe just something funny written on it like "Proudly made in >Canada, eh?". Or a shout poem. Or a picture in the silkscreen/soldermask >(Sun Microsystems used to put pictures on their early system PCBs!). Anyone >want to talk me out of that? :-) No. Have at it. {Quote hidden}>TIA. > > >-marc > >-------------------------------------------------- >Marc Nicholas Geekythings Inc. C/416.543.4896 >UNIX, Database, Security and Networking Consulting > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics >(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

This is not Olimex specific info but here it is just in case. You want to include the board model/revision, copyright notice, your company name, and possibly some contact info (e.g. a short URL). All the 'funny' stuff will give a non professional impression of somebody that just made his first board ;-) I am not sure what the 'penalizing' is but did you considered panelizing your order such that each 'board' actually include multiple boards that you later cut yourself (remember to include silk screen or copper guides that will help you to cut the board). Tal > {Original Message removed}

At 08:34 AM 6/12/2003 -0700, you wrote: >At 11:25 AM 6/12/03 -0400, you wrote: >> Maybe just something funny written on it like "Proudly made in >>Canada, eh?". Or a shout poem. Or a picture in the silkscreen/soldermask >>(Sun Microsystems used to put pictures on their early system PCBs!). Anyone >>want to talk me out of that? :-) > >No. Have at it. It took quite a bit of time to get my logo into a form where it can be added onto boards, but it only needed to be done once. I miss one thing from using Autocad to design boards, and that's the ability to use arbitrary fonts. Ah well. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" spam_OUTspeffTakeThisOuTinterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On 12/6/03 11:53, "Tal" <.....talKILLspam@spam@ZAPTA.COM> wrote: > You want to include the board model/revision, copyright notice, your > company name, and possibly some contact info (e.g. a short URL). Yeah, I was definitely going to include a revision number, URL, and a copyright notice. > All the 'funny' stuff will give a non professional impression of > somebody that just made his first board ;-) Ah, but it's only semi-commercial, so I thought I'd have some fun ;-) > I am not sure what the 'penalizing' is but did you considered panelizing > your order such that each 'board' actually include multiple boards that > you later cut yourself (remember to include silk screen or copper guides > that will help you to cut the board). I wrote "panellizing" not "penalizing". :-p I believe Olimex 'de-panellize' boards for free as long as boundaries are proper and as long as cuts are straight (i.e. All boards have to be square or rectangular). I hate cutting PCBs, so I hope I'm right ;- Thanks, -marc -------------------------------------------------- Marc Nicholas Geekythings Inc. C/416.543.4896 UNIX, Database, Security and Networking Consulting -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Thursday 12 June 2003 10:25, Marc Nicholas scribbled: > Also, as it's my first PCB and I'm a little bit strange at the best of > times...I was thinking about maybe putting my unique mark on the PCB in > someway. Maybe just something funny written on it like "Proudly made in > Canada, eh?". Except that it wouldn't be made in Canada, would it? The board would be made in Europe. You mentioned "sensor", which is probably made in Asia somewhere. If there's a PIC in it, that would be Malaysia or Thailand I believe. Resistors? ... Japan. Maybe you'll assemble it in Canada, but are *you* even made in Canada ? :-) So how about "Proudly made on earth". Cheers, -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:35:22 -0400, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>On 12/6/03 11:53, "Tal" <talKILLspamZAPTA.COM> wrote: > >> You want to include the board model/revision, copyright notice, your >> company name, and possibly some contact info (e.g. a short URL). > >Yeah, I was definitely going to include a revision number, URL, and a >copyright notice. > >> All the 'funny' stuff will give a non professional impression of >> somebody that just made his first board ;-) > >Ah, but it's only semi-commercial, so I thought I'd have some fun ;-) > >> I am not sure what the 'penalizing' is but did you considered panelizing >> your order such that each 'board' actually include multiple boards that >> you later cut yourself (remember to include silk screen or copper guides >> that will help you to cut the board). > >I wrote "panellizing" not "penalizing". :-p I believe Olimex 'de-panellize' >boards for free as long as boundaries are proper and as long as cuts are >straight (i.e. All boards have to be square or rectangular). I hate cutting >PCBs, so I hope I'm right ;- For small panels, you DO NOT want the PCB house to depanellise them. It's a LOT easier to assemble (and often test) small PCBs in sheets of several at a time, then snap them out afterwards. You need to set your panel up so you have breakout tabs in places that won't cause a problem after breakout, but will provide enough support for assembly. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

At 05:52 PM 6/12/2003 +0100, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:35:22 -0400, you wrote: > > >On 12/6/03 11:53, "Tal" <.....talKILLspam.....ZAPTA.COM> wrote: > > > >> You want to include the board model/revision, copyright notice, your > >> company name, and possibly some contact info (e.g. a short URL). > > > >Yeah, I was definitely going to include a revision number, URL, and a > >copyright notice. > > > >> All the 'funny' stuff will give a non professional impression of > >> somebody that just made his first board ;-) > > > >Ah, but it's only semi-commercial, so I thought I'd have some fun ;-) > > > >> I am not sure what the 'penalizing' is but did you considered panelizing > >> your order such that each 'board' actually include multiple boards that > >> you later cut yourself (remember to include silk screen or copper guides > >> that will help you to cut the board). > > > >I wrote "panellizing" not "penalizing". :-p I believe Olimex 'de-panellize' > >boards for free as long as boundaries are proper and as long as cuts are > >straight (i.e. All boards have to be square or rectangular). I hate cutting > >PCBs, so I hope I'm right ;- >For small panels, you DO NOT want the PCB house to depanellise them. It's >a LOT easier to assemble >(and often test) small PCBs in sheets of several at a time, then snap them >out afterwards. >You need to set your panel up so you have breakout tabs in places that >won't cause a problem after >breakout, but will provide enough support for assembly. You lose some PCB area that way. V-groove works nicely, smooth edges with minimal loss of area, but costs a bit more. Academic in this case, on all points, as the boards will be sheared, not routed, so depanelization is the only realistic route. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" EraseMEspeffspam_OUTTakeThisOuTinterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Thursday 12 June 2003 11:52, Mike Harrison scribbled: > For small panels, you DO NOT want the PCB house to depanellise them. It's a > LOT easier to assemble (and often test) small PCBs in sheets of several at > a time, then snap them out afterwards. You need to set your panel up so you > have breakout tabs in places that won't cause a problem after breakout, but > will provide enough support for assembly. Good point, and if tab-routing costs more, then you panelize them with your layout SW, and place rows of holes all over the board where they need to be snapped apart. Sort of like "perforations". Personally, I would just use .032 thickness board and cut them easily with a pair of scissors. Cheers, -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

At 11:53 AM 6/12/2003 -0500, you wrote: >On Thursday 12 June 2003 10:25, Marc Nicholas scribbled: > > Also, as it's my first PCB and I'm a little bit strange at the best of > > times...I was thinking about maybe putting my unique mark on the PCB in > > someway. Maybe just something funny written on it like "Proudly made in > > Canada, eh?". > >Except that it wouldn't be made in Canada, would it? The board would be made >in Europe. This is an issue with offshore boards. Technically, the board is a "printed" product in some countries and falls under the draconian country of origin marking rules that require the country of origin of the BOARD to be marked on it. You may not wish your product to have a part that says "Made in Elbonia" when the board and the rest of the product is assembled domestically. OTOH, having a shipment of boards held at customs because of misleading country of origin markings could ruin your whole week. Don't worry about it for a few prototype boards, however. > You mentioned "sensor", which is probably made in Asia somewhere. >If there's a PIC in it, that would be Malaysia or Thailand I believe. >Resistors? ... Japan. Maybe you'll assemble it in Canada, but are *you* even >made in Canada ? :-) Are we thinking vacation? >So how about "Proudly made on earth". Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speffspam_OUTinterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:03:57 -0500, you wrote: >On Thursday 12 June 2003 11:52, Mike Harrison scribbled: > >> For small panels, you DO NOT want the PCB house to depanellise them. It's a >> LOT easier to assemble (and often test) small PCBs in sheets of several at >> a time, then snap them out afterwards. You need to set your panel up so you >> have breakout tabs in places that won't cause a problem after breakout, but >> will provide enough support for assembly. > >Good point, and if tab-routing costs more, then you panelize them with your >layout SW, and place rows of holes all over the board where they need to be >snapped apart. Sort of like "perforations". > >Personally, I would just use .032 thickness board and cut them easily with a >pair of scissors. This can work well for some PCBs, but the flexibility means that it can be hard to hold it rigidly in an assembly jig, You also need to think about assembly order to ensure you can cut the PCBs out easily. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On 12/6/03 13:08, "Spehro Pefhany" <@spam@speffKILLspamINTERLOG.COM> wrote: > This is an issue with offshore boards. Technically, the board is a "printed" > product in some countries and falls under the draconian country of origin > marking rules that require the country of origin of the BOARD to be marked > on it. You may not wish your product to have a part that says "Made in > Elbonia" when the board and the rest of the product is assembled domestically. > OTOH, having a shipment of boards held at customs because of misleading > country of origin markings could ruin your whole week. Do you happen to know the rules in Canada? (I'm guessing you're in Toronto based on your email address). > Don't worry about it for a few prototype boards, however. I wasn't ;-) -marc -------------------------------------------------- Marc Nicholas Geekythings Inc. C/416.543.4896 UNIX, Database, Security and Networking Consulting -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On 12/6/03 12:53, "Picdude" <KILLspampicdudeKILLspamNARWANI.ORG> wrote: > Except that it wouldn't be made in Canada, would it? The board would be made > in Europe. You mentioned "sensor", which is probably made in Asia somewhere. > If there's a PIC in it, that would be Malaysia or Thailand I believe. > Resistors? ... Japan. Maybe you'll assemble it in Canada, but are *you* even > made in Canada ? :-) I was assembled in South Africa from Welsh parts ;-) Believe it or not, all the 'clever' stuff on this board is fab'd in the US of A! -marc -------------------------------------------------- Marc Nicholas Geekythings Inc. C/416.543.4896 UNIX, Database, Security and Networking Consulting -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

So there you have it. I say put a small statement like "Woo-hoo! I can't believe it works!", or "In case of problems, pray harder!". :-) Cheers, -Neil. On Thursday 12 June 2003 12:46, Marc Nicholas scribbled: {Quote hidden}> On 12/6/03 12:53, "Picdude" <RemoveMEpicdudeTakeThisOuTNARWANI.ORG> wrote: > > Except that it wouldn't be made in Canada, would it? The board would be > > made in Europe. You mentioned "sensor", which is probably made in Asia > > somewhere. If there's a PIC in it, that would be Malaysia or Thailand I > > believe. Resistors? ... Japan. Maybe you'll assemble it in Canada, but > > are *you* even made in Canada ? :-) > > I was assembled in South Africa from Welsh parts ;-) > > Believe it or not, all the 'clever' stuff on this board is fab'd in the US > of A! > > -marc > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Marc Nicholas Geekythings Inc. C/416.543.4896 > UNIX, Database, Security and Networking Consulting -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Thu, Jun 12, 2003 at 11:25:33AM -0400, Marc Nicholas wrote: > I've read everything on the Olimex website, and think that I've got an > understanding of what they expect and some common pitfalls. Great, now you only have to overcome the undocumented pitfalls. ;-) I went several rounds with them on a board, trying to satisfy their solder mask requirements in Eagle. It turns out that their script (and the requirements!) are a little wacky, but it is possible to supply .BRD files to them if that's what you want to do. I did finally make an acceptable .BRD and get a PO from them, but while waiting for that last reply (over a weekend) I redesigned the board so I could etch it myself at home... Anyway, if someone needs to run SILKWIDTH.ULP, contact me and I can send you my modified copy and give you some pointers for running it. -- Ben Jackson <spamBeGonebenspamBeGoneben.com> http://www.ben.com/ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Marc Have you talked to Crimp Circuits in your neighborhood ie TO ? They handled my Eagle generated gerber files without any problems other than I had to manually do the drill (ncd). There price was cheaper than about 65 other quotes I had and matched a couple of offshore board houses. Enough cheaper I ordered 100 boards instead of 20. I also didn't have to pay PST or hassle with customs. Check them out you might be surprised how much cheaper they are by the time you add in the shipping, then pst,gst (customs) to your Olimex pricing Dave -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

In message <TakeThisOuT200306121153.27442.picdudeEraseMEspam_OUTnarwani.org>> Picdude <RemoveMEpicdudeTakeThisOuTNARWANI.ORG> wrote: > If there's a PIC in it, that would be Malaysia or Thailand I believe. I thought Microchip's wafer fab plants were company-owned. The last time I checked, they had two - one in Chandler, Arizona, the other in Tempe, Arizona. Excuse me if I spelled the names wrong - my knowledge of US states and cities is sub-par at best (that's what I get for being British, I suppose). Later. -- Phil. philpemEraseME.....dsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

At 10:27 PM 6/12/2003 +0100, you wrote: >In message <EraseME200306121153.27442.picdudenarwani.org>> > Picdude <RemoveMEpicdudeEraseMEEraseMENARWANI.ORG> wrote: > > > If there's a PIC in it, that would be Malaysia or Thailand I believe. >I thought Microchip's wafer fab plants were company-owned. The last time I >checked, they had two - one in Chandler, Arizona, the other in Tempe, >Arizona. Excuse me if I spelled the names wrong - my knowledge of US states >and cities is sub-par at best (that's what I get for being British, I >suppose). Yes, the fabs are in the US, but the packaging is done offshore. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" RemoveMEspeffspam_OUTKILLspaminterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

>> If there's a PIC in it, that would be Malaysia or Thailand I believe. > > I thought Microchip's wafer fab plants were company-owned. The last > time I checked, they had two - one in Chandler, Arizona, the other in > Tempe, Arizona. Those are silicon fab plants. The packaging and final shipping I think gets done in Thailand. > Excuse me if I spelled the names wrong - my knowledge > of US states and cities is sub-par at best (that's what I get for being > British, I suppose). You've got it the easy way around. It can be rather confusing for us simpleton americans when watching BBC programs where the place names sound like meaninful words. I guess you have to know the magic list of keywords, because it's hard to spot them from syntax sometimes. Maybe I'm just slow, but it took me a while to get used to Midsummer Worthy being a place name. Then there are names like Muddy Field Over Hill Behind Woodshed Upon Thames, and houses apparently have names too (and are valid mail addresses ?) but often not something obvious like <blah blah> House. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> >> If there's a PIC in it, that would be Malaysia or Thailand I believe. > > > > I thought Microchip's wafer fab plants were company-owned. The last > > time I checked, they had two - one in Chandler, Arizona, the other in > > Tempe, Arizona. > > Those are silicon fab plants. The packaging and final shipping I think > gets done in Thailand. You are correct Olin, at least that's what the MChip rep at our local corporate seminar said. TTYL -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Some comedian (can't remember his name) once said .... "my father was Welsh, my mother was Hungarian, so that makes me Wel-Hung". :-) Cheers, -Neil. On Thursday 12 June 2003 15:59, Mike Singer scribbled: > Marc Nicholas wrote: > > I was assembled in South Africa from Welsh parts ;-) > > Women is a sometimes thing. > (From "Porgy and Bess") > > Mike. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

I went several rounds with [olimex] on a board, trying to satisfy their solder mask requirements in Eagle. It turns out that their script (and the requirements!) are a little wacky, but it is possible to supply .BRD files to them if that's what you want to do. My interpretations of Olimex's requirements and Eagle's defaults (and the values in most of the Eagle-provided libraries) is that they don't match up very well :-( There are a bunch of tools for "adjusting" the necessary things in Eagle (including one by me!), but most of them are set up to operate within the "CAM" output process (that produces gerber and drill files), rather than on the board itself. So you can adjust your drill sizes and make a silkscreen layer with adjusted line widths, but the new values are all in the drill files and the new layer, not in the "standard" layers. So it looks to me like it would be easier to NOT send the .BRD files? Sure, Olimex might be able to do all that for you, but it seems like a larger amount of "what you saw was NOT what you got" than I'd feel comfortable with. Disenting opinions from people with more actual experience gladly welcomed. Anyway, if someone needs to run SILKWIDTH.ULP, contact me and I can send you my modified copy and give you some pointers for running it. silkwidth.ulp had a lot of bugs. My improved version is silk-new.ulp, and it's got more features as well as bug fixes. (Note that the new features are largely aimed at being able to "etch" a silkscreen using an LPKF PCB router on the copper, so perhaps they're not generally all that useful...) BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:42:52 -0400, Olin Lathrop wrote: You've got it the easy way around. It can be rather confusing for us simpleton americans when watching BBC programs where the place names sound like meaninful words. Olin obviously won't be visiting Pratts Bottom any time soon! :) - It is a real place I used to live down the road from there. Colin -- cdb, RemoveMEbodgy1TakeThisOuTspamoptusnet.com.au on 13.06.2003 I have always been a few Dendrites short of an Axon and believe me it shows. Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until they speak! -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Thursday 12 June 2003 10:25, Marc Nicholas scribbled: > Also, as it's my first PCB and I'm a little bit strange at the best of > times...I was thinking about maybe putting my unique mark on the PCB in > someway. Maybe just something funny written on it like "Proudly made in > Canada, eh?". Or a shout poem. Or a picture in the silkscreen/soldermask > (Sun Microsystems used to put pictures on their early system PCBs!). Anyone > want to talk me out of that? :-) Do you mind if I steal .... errr ..... ahhh ..... I mean "borrow" this idea? I thought of something neat today. On an enclosed-pcb product with a "warranty void if seal broken" label, silk-screen "IF YOU CAN READ THIS, YOUR WARRANTY IS NOW VOID". Cheers, -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

> Also, as it's my first PCB and I'm a little bit strange at the best of > times...I was thinking about maybe putting my unique mark on the PCB in > someway. Maybe just something funny written on it like "Proudly made in > Canada, eh?". Or a shout poem. Or a picture in the silkscreen/soldermask If you draw the text using polygons on the restrict layer and autoroute the board the writing will likely appear in the trace pattern. I have tried this and it works (even with Eagle) if the settings are just right. If the board is sparse then the hugging parameter plays an important role here. I think that it would be a good idea to use this as much as possible. The net and shops are full of ripoffs of various kinds and this would be one that would make them easier to identify. To rippers: Don't like the pcb of the product you just ripped showing the logo of the ripee ? Tough luck. You can make your own then. Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

pic microcontroller discussion list <> wrote on Thursday, June 12, 2003 4:26 PM: > Also, as it's my first PCB and I'm a little bit strange at the best of > times...I was thinking about maybe putting my unique mark on the PCB > in someway. Maybe just something funny written on it like "Proudly > made in Canada, eh?". Or a shout poem. Or a picture in the > silkscreen/soldermask > (Sun Microsystems used to put pictures on their early system PCBs!). > Anyone want to talk me out of that? :-) In a previous place of work, all PCBs had a variety of messages, in the sure knowledge that at least one of our competitors would see them when prodding around to see how we did things. Some were visible, some in hidden silkscreen (a large inductor with "The Force is strong with this one" underneath it, a fine pitch surface mount with "nice desoldering, well done!" underneath), and some on multiple copper layers, so you could only see the whole message when the board was held between your eye and a bright light. Hope that gives you some more ideas! And I would disagree that it appears unprofessional, it's just an engineers version of art. There is a website somewhere with assorted pictures which appear on IC silicon, IIRC there is even a software tool to add GIFs to your silicon layout! Some of them were company logos etc, but there was definitely a Mickey Mouse or similar in at least one of the pictures. Regards, Nigel -- -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

At 10:52 AM 6/13/2003 +0100, you wrote: >Hope that gives you some more ideas! And I would disagree that it appears >unprofessional, it's just an engineers version of art. There is a website >somewhere with assorted pictures which appear on IC silicon, IIRC there is >even a software tool to add GIFs to your silicon layout! I've heard of some of these things poorly designed so that they caused failures in the chips. This would be a good way to shorten a lucrative career as a chip designer. Some of the tempting "open spaces" in my board designs are where there is 240VAC or higher clearance. If it's on the silk layer, no problem (unless you cover over pads accidentally), but on the copper layers you have to be more careful. > Some of them were >company logos etc, but there was definitely a Mickey Mouse or similar in at >least one of the pictures. Imagine $1M+ of 0.13umasks and millions of dollars worth of chips being recalled because Disney© complained about copyright violations. ;-) Best regards, Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" EraseMEspeffspamspamBeGoneinterlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

> Do you mind if I steal .... errr ..... ahhh ..... I mean "borrow" this > idea? I thought of something neat today. On an enclosed-pcb product > with a "warranty void if seal broken" label, silk-screen "IF YOU CAN > READ THIS, YOUR WARRANTY IS NOW VOID". No problem, I'll just have to get someone illiterate to open it form me. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

In message <RemoveME200306122306.48757.picdudeKILLspamnarwani.org>> Picdude <picdudeSTOPspamspam_OUTNARWANI.ORG> wrote: > I thought of something neat today. On an enclosed-pcb product with a > "warranty void if seal broken" label, silk-screen "IF YOU CAN READ THIS, YOUR > WARRANTY IS NOW VOID". ROFLMAO!!! Later. -- Phil. spamBeGonephilpemSTOPspamEraseMEdsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

In message <002301c33191$81ce8480$1800a8c0@Nigel> Nigel Orr <KILLspamnigelspamBeGoneAXONINSTRUMENTS.CO.UK> wrote: > There is a website > somewhere with assorted pictures which appear on IC silicon, There are two: "Molecular Expressions: The Silicon Zoo" http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/creatures/ "Chipworks" http://www.chipworks.com > company logos etc, but there was definitely a Mickey Mouse or similar in at > least one of the pictures. That would be MOSTEK's doing, IIRC. One of their design teams developed an alarm clock controller IC and put an image of a Mickey Mouse watch on the silicon mask. Someone later informed an electronics trade magazine/journal of the existence of said artwork, they decapsulated a chip, took a photo of the "artwork" and slapped it on the cover! ISTR Disney were not amused. The story's on the web somewhere... If anyone finds it, please post the URL! Later. -- Phil. EraseMEphilpemEraseMEdsl.pipex.com http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On 13/6/03 05:52, "Nigel Orr" <@spam@nigel@spam@spam_OUTAXONINSTRUMENTS.CO.UK> wrote: > Hope that gives you some more ideas! And I would disagree that it appears > unprofessional, it's just an engineers version of art. There is a website > somewhere with assorted pictures which appear on IC silicon, IIRC there is > even a software tool to add GIFs to your silicon layout! Some of them were > company logos etc, but there was definitely a Mickey Mouse or similar in at > least one of the pictures. As I previously mentioned, Sun Microsystems put pictures on their early motherboards. I believe they put a picture of Hobbes (from the Calvin and Hobbes cartoon strip) on the SPARCstation IPX board in the silkscreen layer ;-) -marc -------------------------------------------------- Marc Nicholas Geekythings Inc. C/416.543.4896 UNIX, Database, Security and Networking Consulting -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On 13/6/03 10:03, "Philip Pemberton" <spamBeGonephilpemKILLspamDSL.PIPEX.COM> wrote: > That would be MOSTEK's doing, IIRC. One of their design teams developed an > alarm clock controller IC and put an image of a Mickey Mouse watch on the > silicon mask. Someone later informed an electronics trade magazine/journal of > the existence of said artwork, they decapsulated a chip, took a photo of the > "artwork" and slapped it on the cover! ISTR Disney were not amused. > The story's on the web somewhere... If anyone finds it, please post the URL! www.spacey.net/tshaw/Disney/PictFrame.php?Images/Pokes/mostekmickey.j pg There's what it looked like. If you "go back" the Hidden Mickeys page, you can read the story. -marc -------------------------------------------------- Marc Nicholas Geekythings Inc. C/416.543.4896 UNIX, Database, Security and Networking Consulting -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On Friday 13 June 2003 07:30, Olin Lathrop scribbled: > No problem, I'll just have to get someone illiterate to open it form me. Oh dear, the almighty Mr. Lathrop made a typographical error here. I assume that you intended to state "... for me.", instead of "...form me." Or perhaps I should point out the error, snicker and tell you to bug off for some time until you learn English, as that may be more understandable to you? -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Busted! It clearly show who the illiterate person is that Olin was referring to. :) Picdude wrote: > > On Friday 13 June 2003 07:30, Olin Lathrop scribbled: > > No problem, I'll just have to get someone illiterate to open it form me. > >Oh dear, the almighty Mr. Lathrop made a typographical error here. I >assume >that you intended to state "... for me.", instead of "...form me." _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

> I am not sure what the 'penalizing' is but did you considered > panelizing > your order such that each 'board' actually include multiple > boards that > you later cut yourself (remember to include silk screen or > copper guides > that will help you to cut the board). No need to do that with Olimex, they will do it for you (for free). That is what the OP means with 'penalizing' :) Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList .....piclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu>

> I've read everything on the Olimex website, and think that I've got an > understanding of what they expect and some common pitfalls. If you want to avoid extra charges: - check you silkscreen witdths (or specify 'no silkcreen') - check your drill sizes Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-request.....TakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu>

> I've read everything on the Olimex website, and think that I've got an > understanding of what they expect and some common pitfalls. If you want to avoid extra charges: - check you silkscreen witdths (or specify 'no silkcreen') - check your drill sizes But you can't change those directly in the .BRD file, right? Both are defined off in the libraries that are "probably" better left unmodified. You can make a new silkscreen layer with modified widths using one of the ULPs, and the drills can be adjusted to with tolerance with the output CAM processor, but that doesn't actually change their size in the .BRD file. Or am I missing something? BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu>

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 05:37:15PM -0700, William Chops Westfield wrote: > > But you can't change those directly in the .BRD file, right? Both are > defined off in the libraries that are "probably" better left unmodified. > You can make a new silkscreen layer with modified widths using one of > the ULPs, and the drills can be adjusted to with tolerance with the > output CAM processor, but that doesn't actually change their size in > the .BRD file. Or am I missing something? No, that's pretty much it. They accept BRD files but there's no point in submitting them. You're better off generating modified silkscreen layers and producing your own gerber files where you can tweak the drills by the few thou necessary to stay in the standard drill set. -- Ben Jackson <.....benRemoveMEben.com> http://www.ben.com/ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu>