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'[EE]: Longterm backup ..was USB power in parallel'
2008\07\08@004728 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Harold Hallikainen
<spam_OUTharoldTakeThisOuTspamhallikainen.org> wrote:
>
>> So what tis the best long-term backup method ?
>> paper ?
>> cc
>
> I think the best long term backup is multiple external USB drives. If one
> dies, you still have the others.

I think that is a very good option for average users and even small
companies.

Xiaofan

2008\07\08@064216 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Xiaofan Chen wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Harold Hallikainen
> <.....haroldKILLspamspam@spam@hallikainen.org> wrote:
>>
>>> So what tis the best long-term backup method ? paper ?
>>
>> I think the best long term backup is multiple external USB drives. If
>> one dies, you still have the others.
>
> I think that is a very good option for average users and even small
> companies.

Depending on the amount of data and the physical abuse the media must be
able to take, I find (multiple external) harddisks quite useful. While they
eventually die, they seem to do so rather arbitrarily, so the chances are
good that when one dies, the other copy (copies) are still alive.

Gerhard

2008\07\08@164919 by piclist

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On Tue, 8 Jul 2008, Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
> Depending on the amount of data and the physical abuse the media must be
> able to take, I find (multiple external) harddisks quite useful. While they
> eventually die, they seem to do so rather arbitrarily, so the chances are
> good that when one dies, the other copy (copies) are still alive.

This is only true if the drives are of different ages and companies.

A batch of drives will often start failing one after another, often with
less than a day between failures.  I have seen this with my own eyes many
times.  A common disk setup for high end storage is raid 5, where one out
of a group of drives can fail with no loss of data, but two failures at
the same time will fail.  Having a second drive fail before you can get to
the rack and replace the first bad drive fail is common enough that a new
raid level was introduced where two drives can fail and it keeps running.

And that is just the most common.  Many systems have redundancy so dozens
of drives can die and the system won't even slow down, let alone loose
data.  But that is for setups were you might have a thousand drives all
running in a massive array.

For my own personal use, I have two backup drives.  Every night an
incremental backup is made to a drive, alternating each night.  When a
drive is full, I buy another and put the old one into storage.

There really isn't any better way for 100's of gigabytes of storage.  tape
backups are just too small or too expensive or both.  DVD have high rates
of failure and only store at most 8gb a disk.  Flash memory is too
expensive.  Anything else is just not dense enough.

But there are alternatives.  There are internet based sites made for
storing large amounts of data.  Just use several at once so if one goes
away you still have your stuff.

http://www.adrive.com for instance gives 50GB of storage for free.

--
Ian Smith
http://www.ian.org

2008\07\08@203008 by Vitaliy

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Ian wrote:
> For my own personal use, I have two backup drives.  Every night an
> incremental backup is made to a drive, alternating each night.  When a
> drive is full, I buy another and put the old one into storage.
>
> There really isn't any better way for 100's of gigabytes of storage.  tape
> backups are just too small or too expensive or both.  DVD have high rates
> of failure and only store at most 8gb a disk.  Flash memory is too
> expensive.  Anything else is just not dense enough.

Out of curiosity, what types of files are you backing up? And what are you
using as your backup software?

Vitaliy

2008\07\09@152406 by piclist

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On Tue, 8 Jul 2008, Vitaliy wrote:
> Ian wrote:
> > For my own personal use, I have two backup drives.  Every night an
> > incremental backup is made to a drive, alternating each night.  When a
> > drive is full, I buy another and put the old one into storage.
>
> Out of curiosity, what types of files are you backing up? And what are you
> using as your backup software?

I am backing up everything on my desktop machine.  Programs, source code,
digital camera photos, documents, ect.  Pretty much everything except
large collections of music and videos which are just rsynced every now and
again since they don't ever get edited, just added and removed.

I use TrueImage which does incremental backups every day, and lets me
mount an image if I need to look at a file I deleted a month ago.  Or if I
get hit by a virus or trash my system somehow I can go back a day.  

It has a few interesting features.  One is called Try And Decide where you
hit a button, and then do something like install a big program or some
other thing, and if you decide it's screwed up your machine, just reboot
and your system is back to the exact state it was when you hit the button.  
If it works, you hit it again and the changes are made perminant.

Handy, especially with stuff like say, Visual Studio where installing and
uninstalling can trash your system beyond repair.  Ugh.  Stay far away
from any beta versions... Microsofts offical answer to problems
uninstalling was format the drive.  Seriously.

--
Ian Smith
http://www.ian.org

2008\07\09@184626 by Peter Todd

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On Wed, Jul 09, 2008 at 03:24:03PM -0400, piclistspamKILLspamian.org wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Nice! How good is performance while that is happening? Can you tell it
to only unroll some changes, while say, leaving your "My Documents"
folder or what not untouched?


Linux has something vaguely similar, snapshots which are part of the lvm
block devices stuff, but nothing (that I know of) that is so nice and
polished, not even close.

- --
http://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
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2008\07\09@190033 by piclist

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On Wed, 9 Jul 2008, Peter Todd wrote:
> Nice! How good is performance while that is happening? Can you tell it
> to only unroll some changes, while say, leaving your "My Documents"
> folder or what not untouched?

It does the whole drive, so you would want to save anything to another
disk you wanted to keep.  

Performance is nearly untouched.. you can't tell just by looking at it.  
It allocations space on the drive (or another) to store the changes that
would normally be written to the drive.

--
Ian Smith
http://www.ian.org

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